I have a 2 room, 4 speaker setup. Each room contains 2 Cambridge Soundworks In Wall Ambience 62 speakers (8ohm at 10-100W)
Currently I am leaning towards the Samson Servo300 which is 100W per channel at 8ohm. I'd set it up using a simple A+B switch so I can have one or boths rooms running at the same time and probably some kind of simple in wall volume control for each room.
I am interested in knowing what Amps might be out there to power this setup, other than the Servo300. The Servo200 appears to be under powered at 66W for 8ohm. While I doubt I would ever need it loud enough for all 100W at 8ohm, my past experience in the Live Sound world tells me you should have an Amp with the same or more power than the speakers rate.
Anyway, any ideas you might have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
" ... my past experience in the Live Sound world tells me you should have an Amp with the same or more power than the speakers rate."
What is the norm in live sound is as different to home sound as would be car stereo to home sound. The "wattage rating" on home speakers is virtually meaningless. Certainly at background levels you will be using fewer than 10 watts. The volume potential difference between 66 watts and 100 watts is less than 3dB on peaks levels and nothing on program material. At average volume levels, this will mean nothing is different between the two amps as the peaks would be clipped by either amplifier. You would either have to buy about 5-8 times the power of the 66 watt amp to actually have a noticeably higher volume potential or you would have to buy speakers with a 6-10dB higher sensitivity specification. All of this really only matters on dynamic peaks, average program material will be played at far less than peak wattage. Depending upon the selector switch you choose, 35-50 watts into the Cambridge speakers should be adequate. An autoformer based switch will allow virtually any quality amplifier to run the two pairs of speakers as a nominal 8 Ohm load.
Specs are largely meaningless in and of themself. Though I always pay attention to height, width and depth and most often weight is a good determinant of value in some components. Other than that most "specs" are not informative enough to actually be useful on more than a cursory level. 66 watts means nothing if you only ever use three.
Specs are not relevant in most cases while personal requirements are. If you truly feel you are going to blast away with this system, then we need to discuss your options.
So, if specs are meaningless, than that means whatever amp and power rating I choose is also meaningless. It won't matter whether the speakers are 2ohm, 4ohm, 8ohm, 16ohm, in series or parallel. It won't matter whether the amp has 1000W at 2ohm or 200W at 16ohm.
So, If specs are meaningless. Let me choose an Amp rated at 1000W at 2ohm for my 10-100W at 8ohm speakers and see what happens, because, Specs are meaningless, what's the worst that could happen????
All because Specs are meaningless????
I'm sorry, as an electrical engineer and someone who has worked in the live sound world, I complete disagree with you. Maybe if you are buying BOSE or some other OTS product.... than maybe specs are rather meaningless.
But, I have high quality speakers and need to power them such that the sound quality is appropriate and the THD is correct for both the speakers and amp. That way, nothing blows up in my face and I am trying to replace the products.
I was hoping for some other ideas as to an AMP to use in this setting instead of the ones I have already found to meet the specs.....
None of what you've claimed I said is what I actually said.
"Let me choose an Amp rated at 1000W at 2ohm for my 10-100W at 8ohm speakers and see what happens, because, Specs are meaningless, what's the worst that could happen????"
If you're still only using three watts, nothing should happen that wouldn't have happened with a 25-50 watt amp or one rated into a solid 8 Ohm load other than you will have wasted a fair amount of money for no good reason. Your speakers might be "high quality" but they are not what anyone would consider difficult to drive nor are they low sensitivity systems. Your requirements in an amplifier have so far not shown themself to be all that difficult and buying power is not as efficient a path to loudness as is buying a higher sensitivity speaker. If high volume levels are not a concern, then you do not need to concern yourself with power as virtually any decent amplifier will have more than enough wattage to drive your Cambridge in wall speakers to a reasonable volume with any program material. I don't see that you actually laid out any sort of sound requirements for your speakers. But, EE or not, speaker power ratings are all but meaningless as are most other specs - in and of themself.
Two questions; 1) What does power tell you about sound quality? 2) How do you go about matching the THD of the amp to the speaker when most solid state amps will have less than 0.5% THD and your speakers will typically be operating at maybe 10%?
Speaker Wattage ratings are completely meaningless.
Wattage ratings of an amp does not make it sound any better. There are 50 watt amps out there that would blow away amps claiming they are 1000 watts. In a world of Electronics and mass bloated marketing specs, numbers on paper are meaningless a lot of the time. Not all the time, but quit often.
I would put aside your sarcastic ways and listen to what JanVign is saying which so far, and usually is, spot on.
Perhaps start with giving us the sensitivity of the speakers. We have 8Ohm. What is the db rating? If it something like 91db at 8ohm then a 10watt T-Amp would power them to insane levels.
I've heard "insane". That's gonna take at least another 13dB from the speaker. But, yes, 10 watts would be sufficient if the speakers were rated at 91dB and background levels are all that will be asked of them. I just didn't think the op would go for me suggesting 10 watts so I upped it to 25 minimum. I know, "insane"!
OK. How about this. Speakers were there first. I buy house. I have speakers. Need to power them.
Why don't we get back to my original question of " am interested in knowing what Amps might be out there to power this setup, other than the Servo300. "
Anyone want to actually answer the original question????
Basically London, any amp in the 10 to 150 watt per channel range should do as far as power goes. How good it sounds will depend on how much your amp and speakers like each other and your ears. You might end up buying an amp, not liking the sound, returning it (many stores have a 30 day return policy) and trying another. "Specs are meaningless" means that the rated power output of your amp and the power handling of your speakers have very little to do with how loud it can get. Also speakers are usually blown by clipping and distortion rather than too much power. At the volumes you are refering to, you should never blow a speaker. You might want to put a pair of autoformers (automatic audio transformer) between your amp and speakers if the amp you buy doesn't have them built in.
Power the Cambridge speaker with your present amplifier first. After verifying that the load presented to the amp is an 8 ohm load(via auto former control), and being certain of presenting the amplifier with a high quality source via capable cabling, you may then desire another amplifier (of nearly any power rating) that will deliver a certain 'house sound' that you may desire.
If you want something that sounds decent, I recommend the Sony STR-DH100. It's a stereo receiver rated at 90 wpc. $150
If you want something that sounds better and has a few more features, like multizone capability, the Denon DRA-397 rated at 80 wpc will do quite nicely. $400
I recommend staying away from high end/high wattage amps for this application. The sound quality that high end amps can deliver will be wasted here. That's better reserved for serious listening applications.
"Why don't we get back to my original question of " am interested in knowing what Amps might be out there to power this setup, other than the Servo300."
Thats our point here London, Any amp can power these!!!
Yes, any amp will do. I just recommend keeping it on the cheap side. At least from what you're describing London, it doesn't sound like sound quality will be big issue. Even if it is or becomes so later, you may be surprised by how nice the Denon receiver does if you pick that one.
Ok. So, you are showing me receivers. Which are all nice and well and good. In this setting, yes, audio quality is very important (so, this is a serious listening application). Volume is important. All I want is a power amplifier. I want something I can set and forget (ie, put on a shelf in a closet at a set volume level and go from there), using in wall volume controls instead of seemingly another remote.
If I had my way, I wouldn't even bother with this and just buy some powered Mackie Near-Fields. But, the house came with the things so I am going to make it work.
It's nearly impossible to suggest "an amplifier" without knowing the specifics of your set up and your intended useage. You seem to have contradicted yourself when you post first, "While I doubt I would ever need it loud enough for all 100W at 8ohm", and then later post, "Volume is important."
While the impedance strictly has nothing to do with "volume", which is it? Do you want "loud" or do not want loud?
A basic power amplifier is just that, a power amp only. Most do not have volume controls or switching facilities between multiple sources. You might be looking for an "integrated amplifier' instead. The NAD mentioned would do fill that recommendation well. You've not mentioned sources or how you will use with the system. You have a variety of options when it comes to loading the amplifier to a safe 8 Ohm load no matter how you wire the system. The autoformer based switch would be best but you could also lower your cost by using autoformer based volume controls.
However, the fact remains you have easy to drive speakers that are in wall mounted. Sound quality is virtually always compromised by in wall installation and the volume potential is less than would be found in a comparable box type speaker of the same sensitivity. That doesn't mean the Cambridge speakers won't play loud but that they probably won't sound as good as a box type speaker while doing so. You probably don't know how the speakers were installed but it's most likely they were just placed in the wall space between studs with no further attenton to building a decent structure. The speakers are intended for background music or less discriminating sound applications. Making these "work" might not be your best option. However, if you do want to proceed with this plan, then the NAD, given the information we have to go on, would be a good choice for an integrated amplifier with a history of good sound coming from the manufacturer. In your situation - again, given what you seem to be telling us - I'd buy the NAD or a Rotel integrated amp long before I opted for a more mass market line such as Sony or Pioneer. Should you consider moving to the active Mackie's at a later date, then buying an integrated amplifier with "pre amp output" provisions would facilitate that move and you wouldn't find yourself tossing out a new amplifier for lack of adapatbility.
London, you said you wanted to use these speakers for background music. This implies a low or low/moderate volume and a situation where no one is really paying attention to the sound quality. Usually, mellow types of music are played such as easy listening, classical adagio movements, soft rock, rock ballads, jazz ballads, etc. So, we have tried to suggest amps for this application. Now you're saying that volume and sound quality are important and that you would be using the system for serious listening. That's not what background music is my friend. If you are going to use it for serious listening, in addition to using an autoformer based switch, I recommend having the speakers removed. Then, get either Mirage Omnisat Os3s (you'll need a subwoofer for these and most shelf/wall mounts) or other wall mountable (outside the wall) speakers and an amp that sounds good with them. The omnisats are available in black or white, so you can match them to your decor. Other such speakers are available in more colors.
As Jan said, the speakers probably don't have enclosures. If you really like them and really want to use them, you may want to take them out and see if they have enclosures or not. If not, you should see about having them mounted in appropriate enclosures and reinstalled. You may have to make or have someone make the boxes unless there are ones available for these speakers.
At that point buying the Mackie's would be the better option. The inwalls are only an option because they are there, not because the op prefers them to anything else.
So, perhaps a 2 zone stereo pre-amp with 4 active Mackies? That would probably work. I suggested wall mounts because they can be mounted up high and be out of the way. Mirages need to be upside down if mounted over 6 feet from the floor. The bottom line: Whatever makes London happy!
Name a useful 2 zone pre-amp without a receiver attached...quick! A piece of pro gear might drop right in, but I don't know those. Shop at the same place as the Mackies? The Mackies can be pretty good, as far as I read, anyhow.
The op has not indicated a preference for zone two capabilites. Unless there is a reason to spend the additional money for a feature not required to successfully operate four speakers in two rooms, why buy a zone two anything? Don't you have to determine either a need or a desire before you just suggest something? In sales lingo, it's called "qualifying " the customer and it is generally the second step in the sales process though it should continue through to the close of the sale. Find out what the customer thinks they need or want and then go to the backroom to see what you have that would fit those needs or desires. If you don't listen to the customer, you are far less likely to convince them you have their best interest at heart.
Granted Jan, but my multizone receiver can be set so that all three zones can play the same source at the same time if so desired. It can also play 1 source to 2 zones and another source to the other zone. Of course, all 3 zones can be playing different sources. In this case setting the 2 zones to draw from the same source would be the idea. This way, the volume of each zone can be controlled seperately. It also opens future possibilties like running 2 sources (one to each room) at the same time. Sales people who think outside the box tend to get repeated business from me because they are interested in the long term.