Power acoustik Amp trouble...
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New member Username: JedislayerxPost Number: 1 Registered: Oct-10 | Hey all... good to meet you all I've been reading on these forums for awhile now and just decided to make an account cuz i'm straight stumped...1st off let me give you all the rundown on my setup... 2 12" Kicker CVR's 4ohmDVC 400w RMS-800w MAX bridged@ 4ohm (according to Rockford fosgate diagrams) final impedence in a homemade sealed box... (the older black and orange CVRs) Older Jensen Head unit... Stop it... It works great for a Jensen lolz! Rockford Fosgate Punch 301m 900 watt MAX monoblock... Dual input/output RCA's 8 gauge Rockford power and ground wires w/20amp inline fuse As Is this system worked GREAT I just wanted MORE POWER!!! Never had a problem till I swapped out the Fosgate amp for a Power Acoustik... The Power Acoustik amp comes on but the subs damn near blow out and retract and make an air brake hiss on there way back down...And it's constant boom-hiss boom-hiss... But no beat... The Power Acoustik is an Apache Competition Series 2APC 1400 You all can say what you want about BRANDS as I see alot of ppl on here bash power acoustik but this amp was made before they switched to making SH1T amps ala Rockford Fosgate and Alpine to name a few... But this amp was at one time amazing and if i need to get it repaired I will GLADLY pay seeing as how my uncle dug the amp out of his shed and gave it to me... I just wanna know what exactly would need repair aka Outputs/resistors/transistors etc... Any help is MUCH appreciated I really want this amp working... But the million dollar question is this... Once fixed will my subs and this amp play nice together??? The stats on this amp are as follows RMS 540watts per channel @2 ohms RMS 300 watts per channel @4 ohms RMS Bridged 1080 watts @ 2 or 4 ohms??? 1400 watts max... P.S. BTW thats why i say this amp is boss... It's one of the few amps where the RMS is even close to the max watts... Most junk amps Kenwood, Sony, Pyramid, Jensen, JBL, Autotek etc, Pepboys or walmart junk amps the RMS is nowhere close to the max stamped so decievingly on the front of the amp... |
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Silver Member Username: MystrePemberville, Ohio USA Post Number: 569 Registered: Sep-05 | If you do have it bridged you are giving those subs way too much power. Turn your gain on the amp all the way down and see if that helps. |
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New member Username: JedislayerxPost Number: 2 Registered: Oct-10 | I did that it did the same thing only difference is the tone wasn't as loud I also tried them on just 1 channel same thing boom-hiss they sound like air brakes... |
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New member Username: JedislayerxPost Number: 3 Registered: Oct-10 | You really think that amp is too powerfull??? My friend has the aluminized CVR's and has a 1500 watt boss mono amp powerin them they sound fine... |
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Silver Member Username: MystrePemberville, Ohio USA Post Number: 570 Registered: Sep-05 | I was just basing that on what you said the RMS was for the amp. 1080 watts RMS = 540 watts per sub which are rated at 400 watts RMS. Doesn't add up. My suggestion would be to get 2 different better subs and a better amp. |
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New member Username: JedislayerxPost Number: 4 Registered: Oct-10 | Nah those subs are great I love kickers... I'l never buy another brand of sub again... I've had JL W0-8's , Fosgate P1's, MTX Thunder 6000's and MB quart DWE's And NONe of them hit like my kickers... If I do upgrade subs it will be either CVX's, L7's, or Solo Classics... Trust me my other friend has the same aluminized CVR's as my other friend and he is running them on a 600 watt Hifonics brutus amp and they pound... So you saying the RMS on that boss monoblock must be pretty low to not do what mine is doing to my subs??? |
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New member Username: JedislayerxPost Number: 5 Registered: Oct-10 | And remember this about my amp it's 540 per channel @ 2 ohms I am running a 4 ohm Final Impedence 300per channel @ 4 ohms The site with the amps specs shows that info it also says 1040w bridged but doesn't say if it runs bridged @ 4 ohms or just @ 2 ohms it just says 2 ohms stable on the front of the amp if that helps... |
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Platinum Member Username: Nd4spd18Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 11494 Registered: Jul-06 | Despite what you may think kicker makes mostly crap, the cvr and Ccvx are exceptions tho. Sounds to me like your box is tuned way wrong or has leaks |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14014 Registered: Dec-03 | Very hard to say what is damaged in the amplifier, but first off, you need to upgrade from the 8AWG to 4AWG wiring for that larger amplifier to avoid future damage to teh subs. Is the amplifier set properly with gain, no bass boost, XO settings, etc? Having the gain all the way up can cause this type of behaviour. So can a bad ground point. If the amp is damaged, it's most likely the output stage (MOSFETs) or possibly the power supply's darlingtons (more FETs) which would need to be replaced bilaterally. (all of em, both sides) together to insure proper repair. You can attempt the work yourself if you have the tools, or you can contact a repair shop, or anyDIY amplifier builder on a site like DIYaudio.com and ask them kindly (in the car audio section) if they'd take on the job for you. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14015 Registered: Dec-03 | also; that amplifier is just fine for those subs at the stated load. what you may also need though, to see the amp's full potential, is upgrades to the car's electrical system, like an alternator that's a bit bigger (say 120A range? Not huge, but enough to give extra juice to the amp when needed. Gives more headroom.) Kicker's older Comp and Comp CVR subs were nice. So were their first gen (round) Solobarics, F and C series, and C series component speakers built in the 90s, but I am really not a fan of their square subs at all. As for modern subs, if you ever do buy new, go a different route. Buy from a better brand for subs, like SoundSpliter, Fi, Incriminator, etc.. so many superior products these days. Alpine and RF still make pretty good electronics, though, just FYI. For head units, very little matches wits with the Alpine F#1status, with the possible exception of a few products like the Pioneer Stage 4 or McIntosh. If, instead of repairing that amp, you do decide on a replacement, the Audioque (audioque.com) AQ1200D is a fine replacement, offering 1200WRMS @ 1 ohm for $249 shipped. That'd essentially double your power by re-wiring the subs to parallel coils, both drivers in parallel. Granted, you aren't going to be getting the rated power from any amplifier for a myriad of reasons I've discussed on the forums numerous times, so figure in any event you really only put out around 100 watts or so for typical listening. |
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New member Username: JedislayerxPost Number: 6 Registered: Oct-10 | Hmm... So your saying if I un bridge my subs and run them parallel They drop to 2 ohms??? I might try that oh and also I think I really need to switch my CVRs to a ported box...Well this girl has a pioneer head unit she wants to trade me... You guys are awsome and very helpful... Yea on the whole alternator thing I def need to swap that out I just need to find a 120-140 amp (mines i think 65 amp stock) for my 1990 Jeep Cherokee Laredo (Making my everyday ride an offroad rider) Lift kit all that so budget is tight any suggestions where to find one??? Also whats with this Marine battery in the back seat and a positive run from the alternator to the pos batt terminal???? What happened to the good old days of using a 1.5-2.0 farad capacitor? And one other thing do you think I should just Unhook the power acoustik and re-attatch my Fosgate Punch 301m? It says 900 watts but when I looked online somewhere I was horrified to find the rated RMS on it was only 300 watts... Thats why I wanted to switch out in the 1st place... So any suggestions are welcome... Should I sell both of them and buy a new amp altogether? If so whats the best amp for my subs? (I'll check out that AQ1200D later) Thier specs are above in a previous post... I'm sorry for all the questions I just don't wanna ruin a perfect pair of Kicker CVR's... I'll post pix later cuz i'm not sure what year they are if that will help... again thx guys ahead of time... |
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New member Username: JedislayerxPost Number: 7 Registered: Oct-10 | @ MS yea I made my sealed box at home so i might just get a ported box off a friend today and test it out... But the box they are in now knocked fine with the fosgate I have just wasn't enough knock for me... maybe I don't have the X-overs right... I had it set at like around 85 i think... |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14023 Registered: Dec-03 |  like this on a 1 ohm stable mono amplifier. on the alternator, it's a Denso case, so it can be rewound to about 120A, or you can go to any number of on-line alternator places to get a high output unit for that Jeep. 4L I assume? ideally for a charging system for car audio, you want a high output alternator, and a dedicated isolated deep cycle battery. capacitors are utterly useless in car audio. http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/index.html read the linked articles above in the "Electrical" section on alternators, batteries, capacitors, and charging systems. For now, yes I would put the RF 300W amp back in place. peak or max power ratings are useless as well. RMS is all that matters for an amplifier. If the RF amp works, then your PA amp is definitely damaged. That AQ1200D would be a great amp for the two CVR subs, really. @ 1 ohm, you'd get 600 watts RMS to each sub (at peak output) which, since you'll never really see the peak output of the amp, is fine. It just means you'll have outstanding headroom available for transient peaks in demand for power. I would also definitely go to a ported box of about 2 to 2.25 cubic feet per sub (after driver and port displacement) and tune the ports to about 28Hz. If you go with round ports instead of a slot-vented box, try to stay with a minimum of 4" inner diameter ports. Anything smaller will cause chuffing. |
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New member Username: JedislayerxPost Number: 8 Registered: Oct-10 | Yep the unkillable 4.0L Straight 6 193,000 and counting lolz! Nah I got a replacement engine with 40,000 original on it... I also have these big round ports out of home stereo boxes I'll place them on top of my homemade box n take a pic so you can see the proportion n tell me if those are workable... If not I'll just give my friend that junk 10" MTX Thunder 6000 for his slotted ported box... And yea last night in the rain I hooked up my Fosgate again and it knocks again no apparent DMG to the subs either...BTW I think I was wrong about the 325 watt RMS on that amp... I called a place here in RI called Sound FX and they said that my old azz Punch amp RMS is probly puts out alot closer to the max then I would think... He also said DONOT buy a new fosgate amp they should be sold at best buy... He tried talkin me into a 1000 watt Memphis amp which is a nice amp... But not for $373.99!!! But yea Thx very much guys I'll give a new amp a go as soon as my budget allows... |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14031 Registered: Dec-03 | oh that's not too bad, really. I have two amplifiers in my car that are 250 watts RMS x 2 channels, and they cost $1600 each. |
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New member Username: JedislayerxPost Number: 9 Registered: Oct-10 | JEEEEEEZ!!! $1,600 EACH??? Was that in 1988??? Or do they act as a flux capacitor and take you back in time??? Yea well thats why I don't believe in buying car audio new.... It's WAY too overpriced and the warranties sukk... Craigslist is a car audio enthusiasts best friend... This guy I just talked to said if I had $3,000 cash he would give me his 15" critical Mass subs and the 10,000 watt Amp to power them... Now thats a deal... I also saw a kid on there lookin to trade his 6,000 watt amp for a less powerful amp cuz he kept blowin subs LOLZ!!! You keep an eye on craigslist and be sure you check for new ads everyday... Cuz usually when you got cash in hand you can talk someone down on the price of just about anything... Try talking the guys at your local High end Car audio shop down... I traded a kid 1 12" JL W0-8 and he gave me 2 12" Kicker CVR's.. like I said great deals... Oh and another kid gave me a brand new 10" MTX Thunder 6000 in a mint single box for a hookah I payed like 15 bucks for... LOL! I'll eventually find one... this kid has a Kicker 1350.1 I thought that would be great for my subs but we will see... |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfPost Number: 14037 Registered: Dec-03 | hand built Orion 22250SX amps. yeah they were built in 1991 or so, and that was $1600 then, but adjusted to today's inflation, it'd be even more.. haha Great amps though. All MilSpec internals, and well, the fact that they still perform 20 years later speaks for itself, but truth be told, they really put out about 1500 watts. 250x2 is @ 4 ohms. Once upon a time, all amplifiers were rated @ 4 ohms. These days, the power output is always stated at their lowest stable load, so they can look bigger and more impressive to everyone more concerned with numbers, or having 3 more watts than the neighbor. Orion was the opposite. They used to sell amplifiers rated for 25 watts x 2 (@ 4 ohms) that could actually deliver 800 watts (@ 0.25 ohms) Note, $3K isn't that great of a deal, honestly. For $3K I could design you an outstanding audio system.. the WHOLE system, not just an amp and a sub or two. Also, 10K watt amp? Do you have a 1000A alternator to drive that? That's the only way you'll see that sort of output. On your stock electrical system you'd be lucky to get 400 watts from it without clipping. These are the kind of things you need to think about when you design a competent audio system. Also, was that 10,000 watts RMS or "max/peak?" If it's Peak, it's a meaningless number. If it's RMS, as I said, you can't power it cleanly without about 4 to 6 alternators, and a bank of batteries across the back of your car. The kid wanted to unload the 6Kw amp because he didn't have the electrical system to support it, and the clipping from his amplifier destroyed his subs. The subs weren't "overpowered." They were damaged thermally by DC voltage being sent to them because his voltages were dropping to about 8VDC in the car when that amp tried to get enough headroom to handle peak demands. Guess what? You're going to be in the same boat with several thousand watts of power, which incidentally, aren't really needed for a daily driver. I've hit over 140dB in one of my cars at competitions with a SQ system (yeah, not SPL) using 320 watts RMS on two 12" subs in a simple ported enclosure. Why would you need more than that, unless you plan to compete in the pro classes for SPL events only? I would like to point out that, as a former Orion dealer, I got my amplifiers much much cheaper than the MSRP on them. I also got them used from a former Orion demo van that was retired and re-outfitted with newer generation gear for shows. I'm well aware of auction and classified sites, though. However, unless you have a test bench, and the skill to test the gear you buy used, you could really get hosed buying from CL as well. I've seen a lot of people get trashed items on CL with no recourse at all. They just got taken, or worse, got mugged when they showed up with cash to buy some supposed awesome deal on a product they wanted. |
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Silver Member Username: MystrePemberville, Ohio USA Post Number: 573 Registered: Sep-05 | Amen Glass. Thank you. |
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