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New member Username: Sbw6234Post Number: 7 Registered: Nov-07 | If I'm on the wrong thread please point me in the right direction. Question about proper connection and if an external sound card will make a difference when hooking my pc to my HK 3485? I hear a lot about DAC's, but don't know if my receiver has one built in. Any help will be appreciated |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3925 Registered: Feb-07 | You don't need an external soundcard, but a relatively inexpensive USB DAC from your PC to your receiver will make a world of difference. If you want to take a step further, bypass the kmixer on your PC (assuming WinXp or Windows Server - Vista does not utilize kmixer). It has a brutal impact on sound quality. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3837 Registered: May-05 | An external DAC or sound card can make a difference, provided the music is high enough quality. If you can, rip your music in a lossless format like WAV, FLAC, or Apple Lossless. You can't do much with a broken signal, which is what mp3 pretty much is. I should state that I have heard some systems that make low bit rate mp3 and make it sound good somehow. Case in point is the Naim Uniti. It'll play low bit rate internet radio stations, and they sound great. I think the secret is in upsampling DACs. Naim isn't exactly cheap, so take that as you will. The HRT units have gotten rave reviews for the money. Look into the HRT Streamer or Straemer+. They'll take a USB signal and convert it to analog which will plug into your receivers as RCA plugs. David - How do you bypass that stuff? ASIO? I've been fooling around with a analog to USB converter and digitizing vinyl. Should I download ASIO? Will that automatically bypass everything else? |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3926 Registered: Feb-07 | Yup Stu, I use ASIO with Foobar2000 and it makes a difference. Pretty sure there is an ASIO plugin for Winamp as well. This is the one I use: http://www.asio4all.com/ |
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New member Username: Sbw6234Post Number: 8 Registered: Nov-07 | Thanks guys you have helped a lot. Stu, looking at the HRT Streamers they have new versions now. Looking at the specs. on the new HRT II and the old HRT +, which would you recommend. What I see is on the new versions their bit depth goes to 24 from 16? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3838 Registered: May-05 | Thanks Dave. Steven - I haven't used any of the HRTs, so I can't recommend one over the other. Looking on Music Direct's website, it looks like all the new ones do 96/24, and the old ones do 48/16. The new ones have the II moniker after their name. I think the whole hi res thing is blown out of proportion though. I've come across very little music in hi res. People talk about it like it's essential, yet I keep wondering where all the hi res music is. There's a few sites to download them from, but it's not mainstream music or anything I'm interested in. Playing hi res and upsampling are two different things. I don't know if the HRTs upsamples or not. If you call the people selling them, they could probably answer that. If you can ask HRT, even better. The o ly way better units will sound better is with uncompressed music. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3935 Registered: Feb-07 | To me Stu, hi-res is listening to a CD. It sounds more than good enough to me, especially with a good CD player. The though of listening to an mp3 on my 2 channel rig leaves me aghast. It is forbidden in my house, and my family knows it :-) FLAC is ok, but CD still sounds better. May be the actual transport mechanism, and by transport I mean PC to USB DAC vs. a dedicated quality CD player. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1184 Registered: Oct-07 | David, What is the problem w/FLAC? or by extension Apple Lossless? Either one can reconstruct a bit-perfect copy of the original. USB could be the problem, no? I'd be curious of your opinion of the optical out of my Mac to the DAC section of my CD player...... |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3936 Registered: Feb-07 | I don't think it's a problem with flac at all, I think it's USB and/or using a cheap DAC. If I had the Bryston DAC then it may be a different story altogether, but I still think that USB in the equation may be a limiting factor. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1185 Registered: Oct-07 | Optical or coax out, than? You aren't the only one.....suspicious....of USB output. My Mac has optical, minitoslink, How long a run is feasible with an optical cable? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3053 Registered: Jun-07 | A similar priced DAC will almost always crush a similar priced CD Player. I have ran over a dozen DAC's now and Optical/Coax has always been much better. Fuller, more analog sound. USB to me has always sounded digital, and thin. By far the best USB output I have heard, which sounds very very good was the Bryston DAC. The Cambridge USB is ok as well, but still sounds more digital and thin compared to its optical. FLAC/WAV/MP4 should be identical to a hard copy of a cd. Like David said, just about adapting a good sounding DAC/PC based setup to accomplish the best. My house will never see a dedicated CDP every again. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3054 Registered: Jun-07 | 10 Meters Leo before you start to drop signal strength. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1187 Registered: Oct-07 | The reason i asked about max distance was I am still mulling over the software upgrade to my CDP. If i can simply run an optical to the input of my CDP from my Mac, that may do it......Unless the Mac has the same output clocking problem as the AirportExpress. Now I've got to figure out cable routing. There must be something with USB implementation. Once a file has been processed from any of the lossless formats back to the original data, why should USB sound any different than out thru an optical or coax? There must be something 'wrong' w/USB |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3937 Registered: Feb-07 | Like Nick mentioned, there is a limit to the length of runs that USB can do. There are repeaters that you can put inline to boost the signal, but I doubt this would be beneficial to a clean audio signal. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3057 Registered: Jun-07 | Yup. Also, when using USB your relying directly on the DAC's adaptation of the USB connectivity. Unless you get up into the higher end DAC's the USB I find has been lacking to say the least. Optical/Coax connection it is more of a handshake with the CDP/PC/MC so if you have a good Optical output like your MAC would have Leo then it helps a ton. |
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Silver Member Username: PabloPost Number: 186 Registered: Mar-06 | Well, BDA-1 is arriving tomorrow! The final (for now ) set up is: Squeezebox and files in wav and flac Bryston BDA-1 McIntosh MA6300 Totem Arros with beaks and on claws totem tress speaker cable Richard Gray 400Pro AudioQuest king cobra xlr AudioQuest NRG-2 for BDA AudioQuest NRG-4 for MAC AudioQuest jumpers for mac Changed jumpers on Arro's with tress cable I will probably get a cd player (can get demo arcam cd17 for under $700 - thinking about it) but most my listening will be from squeezebox. It will be connected with BDA-1 via optical so no questionable USB will be used. What you guys think? Pablo |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3938 Registered: Feb-07 | Sounds like a nice system Pablo. Good thing the guy you bought the 6300 is cool dude. |
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Silver Member Username: PabloPost Number: 187 Registered: Mar-06 | Any regrets David? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3839 Registered: May-05 | The new Wyred 4 Sound DAC has got my interest. Its made by the guys who used to manufacture the PS Audio Digital Link 3 before PS Audio decided to outsource to China. They're the Cullen guys from the Cullen mods. So far the few people who've bought it love the DAC. Their other stuff has gotten a lot of great press lately. Specs look great. One that stood out at me is 15lbs. For a DAC? I just can't get past the Wyred 4 Sound name. They look a bit odd too. http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html ?pid=396494 |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3939 Registered: Feb-07 | I've read lots of good things about their DACs too. I've read good and bad things about their amps as well. Seems people either love or hate the Class D design. Hard to get past the silly name. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1195 Registered: Oct-07 | Doesn't W4S use ICE modules? To me that would mean the sound has more in common with other ICE amps than differences. Kind of a family thing. Doesn't Cullen make stuff for several other companies too? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 15038 Registered: Dec-04 | There must be something with USB implementation. Once a file has been processed from any of the lossless formats back to the original data, why should USB sound any different than out thru an optical or coax? There must be something 'wrong' w/USB --Leo. Yep! USB is copper, and powered over it's length. Optical is powered at the generator, then a free ride down the slide. |
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Gold Member Username: MagfanUSA Post Number: 1211 Registered: Oct-07 | Found out something else about USB.....it is far more CPU intensive than a simple optical or coax out. I would be interested in a FireWire DAC.....and you wouldn't have to go past FW400 to get there. Even FW400 exceeds the bitrate of USB2. I haven't done the math, but I'm told even USB1 has enough bandwidth for 44.1/16 stereo. |
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Silver Member Username: PabloPost Number: 193 Registered: Mar-06 | Use the squeezebox between and the problem is gone. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3840 Registered: May-05 | The Squeezebox solves a lot of problems only if the music is uncompressed. I really like the Squeezebox. It's a simple way to get music from your computer to your stereo. The internal DAC leaves a little bit to be desired though. Your BDA-1 should sound great! I chose the Apple TV due to it's internal hard drive and control by either TV or iPhone/iPod Touch. It eliminates the possibility of drop outs, and the computer doesn't need to be running. I can also watch YouTube videos, which is a lot of fun. |
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Silver Member Username: PabloPost Number: 194 Registered: Mar-06 | iPeng application is a good remote control for the squeezebox on the iPhone. It has an iTunes like interface. So this way the iPhone becomes cool remote control. And yes BDA-1 makes huge difference. I would not relay on squeezebox build in DAC. Even before when I was running it using Arcam AVR 280 I was connecting it using digital so Arcan's dac was doing the work. And yes most of my music is uncompressed wav or flac. I do not think apple tv supports uncompressed, plus my computer is on all the time anyway so this is not an issue |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3841 Registered: May-05 | Apple TV will play uncompressed - AIFF, Apple Lossless, WAV, and a few others. It won't play FLAC or high res files - anything above 44.1/16. It'll store them, but when it plays it downsamples to the CD standard. All my music is ripped as Apple Lossless. I hear no differences when playing the same music as WAV files. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 3061 Registered: Jun-07 | Apple Lossless sounds the same as WAV. I prefer WAV as its a format that will play on pretty much anything. I wont get into another Apple bashing, as clearly everyone here knows my take on Apple and Itunes, but I will say the Apple TV is one fun little media extender. There is better sounding extenders that do more but for triple the price and no hard drives. The Apple TV is good and I prefer it over the Squeeze Box. The Apple TV changed the way media could be streamed from PC to audio/video system and a lot of followers are in the market now. Right now I am using the VuDu unit that is about equal to the Apple TV in performance and GUI but supports more formats. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 680 Registered: Jul-07 | I was in the Mac store to see about setting up a music server system with apple TV and he recommended to use a Mac Mini as much more versatile, eg 2 gb memory plus a lot more for not that much more money. What do you think? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3914 Registered: May-05 | Depends on what you want it to do, Kevin. The Mac has more memory and functions. It also costs a lot more. I like the Apple TV for it's simplicity. It's basically a stripped down Mac. Everything I need it to do, and not much more. The hard drive seems pretty small, but I've got about 250 or so (estimated) albums in Apple Lossless on it's hard drive, and it's maybe 1/3 full. If/when it fills up, it'll stream music from my computer. The YouTube feature is great. Sound and picture quality depend on the video, but there's so much great stuff on it. I honestly think the YouTube feature alone is wortht the $200 or so price. I wouldn't have thought that before I bought it though. Not sure if the Mac will output high res music or not. The Apple TV won't. But the question must be asked - do you own enough high res music anyway? Very few do IMO. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 681 Registered: Jul-07 | I gave some thought to trying setting up a computer based music server because the ready to go ones are so expensive. If I went with the Apple TV I could add a hard disc when the hard drive got full. After my failure to burn LPs to the computer I am not sure I want to try. On the other hand, the new issue of the Absolute Sound has an article: DIGITAL EQUIPMENT SPECIAL. A Graphic Guide to Computer-Based Audio. It has some good illustrations and it is starting to make sense. Maybe within my ability as a computer illiterate. Like the kind of driver who doesn't know that the car needs oil and water, I just operate the computer without much interest in what is going on within. That makes all this computer music business a real challenge. I have been reading about the iDecco and Nova. That would make a simpler system to keep it separate from the 'old school' hi fi and set up independently. A good excuse to get another pair of speakers Art could send me his Rega 5 speakers. Come on..... |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12959 Registered: Feb-05 | Keep up, Kevin...I have DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 8's now, and have for just over a year. Hope all is well up in the frozen North. Next time you're down in the lower 48 and in the area, stop by and we'll share a libation and some good tunes! BTW, I have a good hookup for ya if you are in the market for the Peachtree and/or the Rega speakers. http://eugenehifi.com/ They just took on Well Tempered and Harbeth as well. Dale is slow to get things on the website. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12960 Registered: Feb-05 | http://eugenehifi.com/ That's better! |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 682 Registered: Jul-07 | Thanks Art! I got a stylus for my Rega P3 from Eugene HiFi and they were great to deal with. When I embezzle the money for the Peachtree, I will definitely get it from them. I have been busy so long I missed out on your upgrade. Wow, DeVore is great. I heard them in Seattle. I spent a lot of time last winter studying new heating systems. I have been doing heat for many years but there are a lot of improvements in that technology because of the high fuel prices and slow economy. After I gave up on trying to burn LPs I went back to school on my trade instead. I have not been able to travel out of here because my wife got a job that is a step up in her career. Ironic since I am retired I can't get away. Oh well, it is heaven here with her. We are in an apartment but have decided to move into my house which was leased for many years because I was a snow bird spending only half my time up here. Now that I am here year round we are going to settle in. Meanwhile I spent most of my money in the last yr fixing the place up. I won't actually buy any gear until we get moved into the house. I have to give the tenants some leeway since they just had a 2d baby. Now I will go over to that LP to digital thread I started and Stu helped me immensely even though I gave up. |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 12974 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks for the update, Kevin. Sounds like you are doing well and that is indeed good news. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 686 Registered: Jul-07 | I will get over to the Music Selections asap. You guys are still spinning great choices! |