Archive through January 13, 2008
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10019 Registered: May-04 | . Thought she was james dean for a day, and the colored girls go, doo da doo da doo da doo ... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6374 Registered: Dec-04 | Do's and dont's for today. I brougt my Rotel cdp up for a run this afternoon, but got a nightshift worker downstairs. In the 'ever so quiet' mode, it sounds OK. 1W. I love these Ling's... |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1415 Registered: Mar-05 | Had my first experience with blown fuse after blown fuse before I finally took a step back and did research. Didn't know that's what happens when tubes go bad. Trying some SED 6550's on the power side now, will report on results. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1440 Registered: Mar-05 | Keg, thanks again for those recommendations on the substitutes(5965 and 5751) for the front end on my setup. I have been so happy with the sound ever since. Thanks again mate! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6478 Registered: Dec-04 | JC, which tubes went bad, and how many hours were on them? Could the need for your solder repair have led to premature expiration? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1442 Registered: Mar-05 | "Could the need for your solder repair have led to premature expiration?" yep, the one channel that was affected by the loose connection made the eh kt88's go bad on that side. early too, I only had less than 1k hours on them. Oh well, I like the sed 6550's and hopefully all joints are good for a while. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2776 Registered: Dec-03 | Hey no problem Joe you are welcome, glad they worked out for you. ------------------------------ Just got back in shape somewhat after the big AK Fest weekend! Here's a small writeup from an attendee. http://wigwamjones.com/audiokarma_fest_2007 The amp he mentions isn't an ST-70 (mine anyway) but an amp I built on an ST-70 chassis I got after an upgrade for someone who wanted a new chassis and the new upgraded power trannie so I used those to build my 6bg6g amp with, worked out nicely. Take care guys! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10093 Registered: May-04 | . "Mad genius", eh, Kegger?! I did notice one heck of an attractive Mac tube amp there. I'm curious why the lamp was heating the one side of the McIntosh MC2500. Do you know what the tall, skinny speakers are in the Manley display? |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1445 Registered: Mar-05 | Keg, did you get a chance to hear those Fostex DIY horns? the unfinished maple/birch? with the sep super tweeter. I saw those in AS (forget which issue) and they seemed very interesting to say the least. shown here on the left  |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2777 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes the mad genious is a bit eccessive, but I find it funny. Jan I thought you'd like that Mac made a nice showing, I don't have answers for you though. When running a room at one of these events you don't get to truly take in everything and get a lot of time in all the rooms but I do try. Yes those fostex horns were a big hit, you can buy just the cabs even for like $100 each, then buy say the 6.5 drivers for $40 each and use a tweeter of your choice to build them a good bit cheaper, which I am seriously considering for I have plenty of tweeters I could experiment with. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6565 Registered: Dec-04 | Oh the old Radio Shack Super tweeter might be an option, if available. I used a lot of them as a kid. Can't find the Manley. You like that one, Jan? KEG, thanks for the post, your amp looks teriffic! I lost the AK thread where you were posting it. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10110 Registered: May-04 | . The RS super tweeter is long out of production. I was just curious about the speaker in the picture. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1448 Registered: Mar-05 | fostex ff165k full range speaker. I am curious too. Wonder if Tim has any experience with this speaker. Yeah Keg, I saw that the cabinets is available for very cheap unassembled. Hmmmmm |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6579 Registered: Dec-04 | Link to the cabs? And Tim's opinion? I like the look and the price. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 6709 Registered: Dec-04 | Jes keeping it alive. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1457 Registered: Mar-05 | Keep it real Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4671 Registered: Dec-03 | There is a review of an "entry-level" (£890 or so...) "Sino-Australian" Melody integrated tube amp in the June HiFi News. By K. Kessler, who it seems is back on the staff. |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1424 Registered: Dec-03 | A quick hello and thanks to all for keeping this thread alive. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10390 Registered: May-04 | . Hello, Rick, where do you have your speakers placed and what kind are you using now? |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1425 Registered: Dec-03 | Hi, Jan, I'm glad to see you and the gang are still here. I'm still using my modified Mapleshade type stands and my S3/5's. I really haven't changed equipment in quite a while. I'm just enjoying music instead of listening to equipment. I owe you in large part, for that. How are the Mac's holding up? Didn't I read that one of their original chief engineers retired recently? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4674 Registered: Dec-03 | Let me just chip in and say Hello, Rick. You started one of the most influential threads here, I do believe. All the best. |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1426 Registered: Dec-03 | Back at you John, and thank you for the kind words. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7199 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi Rick. Good to know you are still kickin'. |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1427 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck- The rumours of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. LOL! I am glad to see you are enjoying the tube world. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7212 Registered: Dec-04 | I think I have outgrown the noob toob setup that I have. I am going to try a pair of Monitor Audio Silver8i speakers with it(91 db) but don't hold out much hope. I will be on the lookout for another tube amp in the future(Keg said OK to look at his stuff), but I think it spells disaster in the household at the moment. New cdp, 5 new speakers and a lot of wires donot a happy home make. You know how it goes: If Momma ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy. So true. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10391 Registered: May-04 | . The MC240's are doing fine, plugging away at the music everyday. Listening to lots of mono LP's I'm finding for cheap dollars. Not much in the way of soundstage or "palpable presence" around performers, but much easier to concentrate on the music and not the Hifi. And almost every one was recorded direct to master disc/tape so there isn't much in the way of production palavering to muck things up. Mac doesn't do much in the way of announcements when senior personnel retire, so it's very possible some of the big guys have retired but I haven't read anything of late. They are just trying to keep up with the ones who are slipping from this mortal coil at an ever increasing rate nowdays. Davey O'Brien was one of the latest. Davey was the face of McIntosh for many years as he crossed the country conducting the annual Mac Clinics at dealers. Very nice guy. Lots of the Golden Age guys are fading away. I doubt many of them, no matter how great their contribution, will be remembered for long. This hobby is not much on looking backwards to realize from where the ideas came. What's a "modified" Mapleshade stand? . |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1428 Registered: Dec-03 | I "borrowed" the Mapleshade concept and took a pair of wooden stands I had and cut them down to 10". I cut new maple tops for them and have the bottoms resting on 3 of their brass iso cones. I use 1 cone on the top for time alignment. Very solid bottom end, and a wide and deep soundstage. The only tradeoff is the soundstage is not very high, but I listen from a low futon in the listening area. That space is a loft. Not as many problems as I thought acoustically. I think this is because of the nearfield listening setup (approx. 6'). Anyway, it still gets my old toes tapping. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10393 Registered: May-04 | . Do you think the soundstage height is an issue of the speakers or the stands? I'm using the 3/5a's on "stands" that get them about 4-5" off the floor and have no complaints regarding soundstaging in any dimension. I considered the Spendors as a replacement for the 3/5a's but the local Spendor dealer doesn't stock the 3/5 or the 3/5SE. For $100 a pair, I'll take a chance on a speaker but for the price of the Spendors, I need to hear the speakers with my amplifiers and in my room before I swap out the Rogers. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7227 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, are the Rogers just 'tired' or what are you looking for? |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1429 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm thinking the height of the soundstage is because of the space they are in. I didn't have the problem in the room in New York. On the subject of the Spendors, consider sending the Emma's to Florida and I'll send the 3/5's to Texas for a few weeks. If you like them consider Audiogon. I paid less than half of retail for them. Running off to work, I'll check back tonight. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10396 Registered: May-04 | . " ... are the Rogers just 'tired' ... " No, they are always quite awake and ready to play. They are just thirty some years old. In thoroughbred years ... Whether the magazines still refer to the LS3/5a as a "competitve design" or not, the Spendors and the Harbeths are the new generation of siblings to the original BBC design. I'm not about sticking my head in the sand and saying the 3/5a's are as good I ever expect a speaker to be. Reviews indicate the new speakers are smoother overall, with less emphasis on the BBC curve, capable of "contemporary" high frequency response (though I'm not sold on what "contemporary" HFR amounts to from most of what I've heard) and without the KEF B110's limitations. Despite all the things the 3/5a's do well, their limitations are still the same as they were thirty years ago. A bit too much volume on a particular disc and the woofer can protest loudly. Since new matched parts are no longer available, on the rare ocassion this happens I look like I'm doing a St. Vitus Day dance on crack trying to get to the twin volume pots on the Audible Illusions pre amp. The film type KEF tweeter is still very good, even against many contemporary designs, due mostly to excellent parts matching in the original design. But it is still a thirty year old driver that has a touch of veiling at the top despite a 22kHz response and should it be damaged, there are, once again, no longer matched parts available. Without tightly matched pairs the 3/5a's are no longer true 3/5a's. So, this is a bit like having a classic automobile with matched numbers that will cost plenty and still be reduced in value should a driver or X-over component require replacement. If the speakers weren't everyday drivers for me, this might be a different analysis. Unlike John's pair of Quads, the original Rogers company is effectively out of business and KEF no longer supports the drivers, so there are no more "replacement" 3/5a's available, just expensive clones "cobbled" together from used parts for the most. They are very good parts and, from what I understand, do a very good job since maintaining 3/5as's has become a labor of love and respect for the original. At the moment, however, my pair of original Rogers' 3/5a's from the mid 1970's are worth about as much as I can hope to get from selling them. Therefore, financially, is a swap the smart thing to do? Financially, at this time for me, no. Musically, at this time, hardly, I like what I own. But, I wanted to know where to head should the situation change in any way. That the local Spendor dealer simply chooses not to carry, nor order without a firm committment to purchase, the small speaker in the line is more frustrating than anything else. For 90% of what I listen to, the Rogers do as well as anything I can afford, or would even consider, and I am not forseeing any problems since I don't listen at high volumes or with thudding bass lines. I was interested in the Spendors and the Harbeths as the next generation of similar sound as I know what type of sound I am likely to find desirable. (Though single driver, full range has also been appealing to me. But, I can't do Quads [never could and I don't expect that to change] and most other SDFR's have compromises the BBC mini-monitors solve. Even if funds were abundant, it's difficult to walk away from this sound.) I already have convinced myself I don't care for most metal dome tweeters but the reports give these two designs high marks as heirs apparent to the 3/5a's, so I'm interested in hearing what I consider to be two fine speaker company's version of a metal dome tweeter that doesn't so obviously sound like a metal dome tweeter. I've also somewhat convinced myself (without hearing either) the Harbeth would be the speaker I prefer but it is significantly higher priced than the Spendor and available for audition in San Antonio(?), which tends to make me more satisfied with the original 3/5a's for a much longer time period. I tend to be very patient when it comes to getting what I think I want, I'm still waiting for the red Corvette convertible to show up in my driveway. So, the 3/5a's are very likely to continue doing what they do in my room for a very long time. I don't own the Emmas, Rick. They were only on loan from Tim for a round of reviews amongst the eCoustics members. And though Emma was quite good in many ways, she was in no way a match for, let alone the better of, the 3/5a's and would never have been a consideration for my system. Of the two designs Tim sent out for audition, the Ling is, IMO, by far the better speaker but it couldn't top the Rogers in most respects unless I was in a situation where I was beginning from scratch with limited funds. For one thing, both of Tim's speakers fared much better with lesser amplifiers than the 15 Ohm Rogers will accept. If suddenly, I had neither the Macs nor the Rogers, then the story might be different for me. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7253 Registered: Dec-04 | I already have convinced myself I don't care for most metal dome tweeters but the reports give these two designs high marks as heirs apparent to the 3/5a's Who's reports do you regard, Jan? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10405 Registered: May-04 | . I think everyone who has reviewed these two speakers has said as much. There would be little reason to doubt the logic with or without reviews since both Spendor and Harbeth are considered industry wide as the standard bearers for the continuation of the BBC sound, Harbeth a bit more so than Spendor and certainly so in mini-monitors. The new Stirling V2 3/5a's seem to be more aimed at maintaining the original's balance with new drivers and X-over, Stirling claiming the original's drop in replacement for any existing 3/5a. . |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1430 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, The offer was sincere. If you want to audition a pair of 3/5's just send me something I can listen to while you audition them. No time limit on the offer. Just let me know. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7256 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, send the Insignias. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10407 Registered: May-04 | . Thanks, Rick. I'll think on this. I'd like to hear the Spendors but there is no rush on my part. I've got a pretty full platter of other projects that aren't giving me much listening time right now. However, if you're thinking of selling the speakers, then I'll push the schedule a bit. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4677 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, I recall the "LS3/5a wannabe" review in HFN a couple of years ago. The Spendor L3/5 was near the top of the six current models reviewed, but none came near the original, they thought, and I think I remember that it was the early Rogers incarnation that was their reference. They also thought there was a suffient number of NOS KEF drivers for it to be feasible for a maker to manufacture a limited number of the genuine article. See also post of July 26 2004 on https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/61479.html Richard Allan states that it makes new LS3/5a speakers... http://www.richardallanaudio.com/ls35a.new/index.htm ....and refurbishes, and supplies parts, for old ones. http://www.richardallanaudio.com/reconelab.new/index.htm |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7263 Registered: Dec-04 | The page from Allen states 83db and 11 ohms. Is the Rogers 11 ohms or 16ohms? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4678 Registered: Dec-03 | Hi, Nuck. 11 Ohms according to http://www.richardallanaudio.com/ls35a.new/specs.htm |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10413 Registered: May-04 | . Both 15 and 11 Ohm versions are BBC designs of the same speaker. The 3/5a began life as a 15-16 Ohm speaker in the mid 1970's. It had a minor revision in the mid 1980's which was the result of KEF's production slightly drifting from the original spec so that an increasing number of drivers were being rejected for the 3/5a. Not too difficult to do over the more than almost two decades from the original design, particularly considering the direction KEF took in the late '80's. The original speaker was made from hand matched pairs with a ladder type resistor network to trim the frequency response. The 15 Ohm versions all had X-overs built by KEF to BBC specs. When the new surround was in place on the "revised" B110(b) low frequency driver, the X-over was made an 11 Ohm spec, the resistor ladder was eliminated and the X-overs were then built by the individual manufacturers. A bi-wiring option was included a few years later. Opinions vary as to which 3/5a is "best" though any speaker labeled as LS3/5a had to meet the BBC spec of single speaker drop in performance with any other single 3/5a manufactured from day one of the model. So, even the "worst" 3/5a is not very far from the best speaker of the variety. John, there were a few "references" in the original 3/5a "shootout" which Kessler performed in 2001. A single pair of original 3/5a's, BBC 001 & 002, were included in the mix. The results were not nearly as interesting as the comments. Until the final production run of the 3/5a, the cabinets were hand assembled, lossy and quite unlike what we accept today as normal for a high performance speaker. From experience I know that a bit too much or too litle tightness on the front baffle screws and driver screws makes for a very different sound quality. Living with the 3/5a is a bit like living with Bendix side draft carburetors. "If I want a bit faster bottom end response, I tighten this screw this much and, if I want a cleaner finish to the top end, ... " As I said, I'm not unhappy with the Rogers. I listened last night and still find the speakers to be more than satisfactory for my needs. And I continue to tweak a bit more performance here and there. I did some room treatment the other day and played with placement to accomodate the new "walls" and things are sounding fine to me. I was interested in the new models more to hear what the new clones are all about. Is this like Michael Keaton's "Mulitplicity" where each new clone gets further away from the original? Or is the line of descendancy true and improving with experience? I mostly wanted to assess what has transpired in the last thirty years to a design which everyone agrees can sound very much like the real thing within the limits of a shoe box sized speaker. I've visited Allan's web page and his services are neither cheap nor easily available from the US. The question certainly would be what the 3/5a's are truly worth should repairs be needed. It is similar to repairing a classic anything, particularly when new parts are not being manufactured. "NOS" tends to be out of my price range in either tubes or drivers and my experience says old is not necessarily better, sometimes just old. (I see the pre amp tubes I bought twenty five years ago for $15@ are now selling for $150@. Not my league at this point. Thankfully, I have another pair in the drawer. I hope to get another fifteen years life out of the next pair. After that, I don't know, I probably won't care nearly as much.) However, when I bought the Rogers almost two decades ago, they were not in the same category of, "This little piece here is going to cost me how much?!!!" . |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1431 Registered: Dec-03 | Like I said Jan, anytime. I don't think I'll ever part with the S3/5's. They just sound too good to me. Just give me a shout when you want to give a listen. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10415 Registered: May-04 | . Thanks, Rick. If anyone is interested in the 3/5a shootout; http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/shootout.html |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4680 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, I understand. The HFN article I was thinking of was the "Wannabe shootout" some years later. Probably 2003. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10416 Registered: May-04 | I missed that series in HFNRR, it was done during a trime when delivery of overseas magazines to Dallas was less than stellar. We tend to prefer magazines with glossy pictures of ourself dressed up and looking Dallas Pretty in expensive surroundings. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4681 Registered: Dec-03 | I have the printed copy somewhere and will scan it if I find it. Although, if it is in an issue before our move, then I have not much chance. Enjoy the music, Jan! R.I.P. Zola Taylor. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article1779259.ece I'll put that on old dogs, too. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4683 Registered: Dec-03 | Ah, it was June 2004, so my copy is somewhere in Sweden. Sorry! Link to search result |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10417 Registered: May-04 | . I'm still amazed at what HHNRR wants for their back articles. Stereophile offers virtually their entire back catalog for free. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4684 Registered: Dec-03 | Agreed. HFN&RR - with the yellow cover. Those were the days.... Stereophile seems to me to be a more sensible magazine. HFN now has glossy photos and stupid pie-charts, and 50-word record reviews. Plus Kessler, who must be certifiable. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10422 Registered: May-04 | . Yellow covers on HFNRR, wow, those were good articles that actually told you how something worked the way it did. The last few isssues have been pretty worthless for useful information. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4686 Registered: Dec-03 | Agreed, again. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10657 Registered: May-04 | . This thread has been lingering. Obviously doing work that other threads won't do. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7672 Registered: Dec-04 | Sounds like an undersexed complaint to me. How's that? The little Asian amp has performed wonderfully. The EL34's have nary hiccupped, I opened it up to clean, and realigned the case and transformer cover, so it looks, well, square. Over time, I have grown used to the tube distortion sound, and like it quite a bit. The leading edge of distortion is great, with the Ling's set up for 1 meter and triangulated. The Ling's are on driven spikes, on a 1" over footprint, on a softwood workspace, 7'X3'(where the speakers are) and 4' return. The Ling's are at a 45 to the wall, the cl of the speaks is measured at 12". Another tube amp will be in the future, buy likely a modded retro model, or copy.1200$ max. But a long ways away. Let's chat! |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 464 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, Try the MA Silver 8i's with the import tubes. Might be a marriage. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7688 Registered: Dec-04 | I would, Mike, but the placement is difficult, at best. For any performance, the speaksz would have to be 15' away, and in corners. I will haul them up for a trial though. The tweets for the TW1a's are on back orfer. I will wait. I am not sure about those with small tube power, but the dispersion field of them would cover up a lot of real estate... |
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Bronze Member Username: Mortal_oneCanada Post Number: 61 Registered: Nov-04 | Hello All, Sorry I was reading this thread for the first time and happened upon this arcticule regarding the 300b tubes. http://www.mparvi.republika.pl/300b.htm It a bit of a rant but I like that. Take look thru, it is a quick read. My two bits. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7695 Registered: Dec-04 | Good ad for SET's, TMO. You must be RGA on Canuckaudiomart.hehehe The performance of high eff. speakers has often left me a little wanting, although the AN-J's that I heard a while back were quite good. Powered by a ss kit, though. I have not closeley listened to a 300b amp. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mortal_oneCanada Post Number: 62 Registered: Nov-04 | I have not heard a 300b amp either. But did have listen to some AN speakers lately. They do sound wonderful. I would put them up against all two ways I have heard. They are perhaps lacking in the ultimate details, but I have been listening to "cans" lately and have been spoilt in that regard. They have a great "feel" for the music. Even some Rage, always a favorite. Just let the band play right thru them. My two bits. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2245 Registered: Sep-04 | I have heard several 300B amps and most have left me unimpressed. I've heard Cary, Audion Golds and Silvers, Cheadle (long time ago) and one or two others. I've always preferred other tubes and I think my fave is the EL34, which is actually considered a bit of a dog in most tube circles. I really loved the Audio Innovations S500 and the Audio Note (UK) P2SE was a peach. As to AN speakers, I lived with a pair of AN-E/SP for over 10 years and they were lovely. They can be placed near corners (AN recommend doing so). I caved in the end and sold the 'coffins' as they were called to make way for the Mani-2s (no valves possible with them). Regards, Frank. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10709 Registered: May-04 | . " ... I think my fave is the EL34, which is actually considered a bit of a dog in most tube circles." Don't say that to a guitar player, certainly not if he has a beer bottle in his hand. Not sure where you got that idea, Frank, the EL34 is a sweet tube that has much to offer in a medium powered, push-pull amplifier. It will never have the punch of a 6550/KT88 (which I find lacking in many applications) but it is well suited to basic Ultralinear designs, the evergreen Dyna ST70 being the classic example. Many favor the even lower powered EL84 for its musicality and the fact it forces you to rethink speakers when you have no more than a dozen watts to employ. My personal favorite is the 6L6/KT66 which is, rather than a pentode, a beam power tube or a tetrode more correctly. It is also a favorite of guitarists who favor tube amps for their many desirable qualities. VTL built their reputation on the 6L6. I wouldn't actually expect someone who prefers Chord amplifiers to care for a triode amplifier. But, more often than not, the reason someone smitten with solid state amplifiers doesn't care for a triode output stage is a poor choice of partnering speakers. The high output impedance of a triode, particularly in a single ended application, makes speaker choice critical to success. True, a triode amplifier isn't for everyone's taste. As with single driver speakers they can get caught up in very complex music if you want drama based upon scale. But, if you are not addicted to Mahler, a triode can be just the ticket for many listeners who cannot develop an emotional connection to (or through) sand. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7715 Registered: Dec-04 | I like the EL34 in my little amp, but the amp itself is so sloppy that distortion comes on fairly early. Mind you, the distortion is not ugly, unless you poke it with a stick, or a few more watts. It is an 18w amp. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mortal_oneCanada Post Number: 63 Registered: Nov-04 | I will side with el84's and 6v6's for the sounds that I prefer. Lower volume levels and yet still dynamic and complex. But they require careful speaker choices. The el34 will take any speaker and roar, the el84 need to given the right speaker to purr, depending on what sound you are looking. From the classic fender snap or the smooth distortion of a cranked vox just before feedback! It all depends on what you like, just like the systems that reproduce them. I have yet to hear many tube playback systems. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10735 Registered: May-04 | . "But they require careful speaker choices." What makes you think that? The EL84 will not produce more than a couple dozen watts at best but that should be sufficient for most speakers that are intelligently designed. Other than simple "watts" is there something you feel requires "careful speaker choices"? . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7736 Registered: Dec-04 | TMO, you must have an axe and amp...what you got? |
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Bronze Member Username: Mortal_oneCanada Post Number: 64 Registered: Nov-04 | D'oh I forgot to start the paragraph properly! I was meaning to say that for Guitar amplifier I will...... etc. At the moment I have twp PRS guitars, two Mesa/Boogies and one custom amp, for the electric side. I also have three acoustic guitars, but those are not quite my thing. Guitar pedals have been my vice over the years! Man, have I spent a bit on those. |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1434 Registered: Dec-03 | I've always been a vintage Les Paul and Marshall man. Pedals? I hope you have either discovered or rediscovered a Foxx Tone Machine with a vintage Wah pedal. Put all this combo together, and you have one nasty crunchin' honk that would make Billy Gibbons smile. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5257 Registered: Feb-05 | Good to see you Rick...when I saw your name I knew you were here to revive the "Tube Talk" thread... ! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8367 Registered: Dec-04 | awright, let's warm up the tubes I need a bigger amp! |
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Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 171 Registered: Jan-07 | Reading some older posts, about o-rings on tubes. Viton is OK, but I think that Silicon (red) is better, once baked out. We use this material to vacuum seal a large diameter tube which is at about 600c. The seal is in a water cooled flange and probably never sees above 180f, or so. Another material possiblity is KalRez, which is the most amazing stuff...and not that it matters here, is very chemical resistant. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11147 Registered: May-04 | . "I need a bigger amp!" You need a more efficient speaker. Granted you might need a better amp, but "bigger" isn't always the answer. Why is it the first thing everyone wants to assume is watts will solve their problems? You've been brainwashed by the receiver manufacturers. Go find some 96dB sensitive speakers, Nuck. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8380 Registered: Dec-04 | Perhaps, but the 'better' amp will be more functional from my nearfield seat. The little tube amp distorts gently, but early. 6-8 watts only go so far... I havn't heard very many hi-eff speakers, and I do like the Ling singles. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11148 Registered: May-04 | . Go find some 96dB sensitive speakers, Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8381 Registered: Dec-04 | Name 3 that you would own, JV. 3 that you would pay for. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 646 Registered: May-06 | There are some things I would own but would not pay for.  |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11152 Registered: May-04 | . Just three? I'd own a LaScala/Belle Klipsch though I'd seldom listen to them unless I had enjoyed the opportunity to "relax" a bit beforehand. At that point, nothing like "Disreali Gears" and "Coc@ine" through a Belle Klipsch. I would own several of the Fostex driver based designs. I'd prefer to own any Lowther based design. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8390 Registered: Dec-04 | The input is certainly appreciated, but somehow I doubt the LaScala would fit my puter desk for nearfield listening. They may constitute a desk for nearfield listening, however. I want to be able to open up the sound to the room a little bit more than the little 18w cheapo amp does now. Tim ran these very speaks with a 30w tube amp, and his nephew ran them the same way. With a little more, and cleaner power, they might do nicely, until the Ziggies happen. |
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Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 177 Registered: Jan-07 | Jan, remember:: Too much is never enough. That's how they sell 400hp V-8s to city people with 600ft between stoplights or 7x200 Outlaw amps to people in apartments. maybe it is because amp power is cheaper to make than hi-effieciency speakers? Car salespeople try to 'Sell the Sizzle'. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11162 Registered: May-04 | . So do audio salespeople. But buying more watts isn't necessarily the answer to good sound. Cheap watts are to blame, no doubt. But cheap watts are never good watts. |
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Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 178 Registered: Jan-07 | Jan, hi-efficiency speakers are a constant theme thru your posts. Can you start a thread with this as the subject? When you say cheap watts, I hope you are referring to specified watts, and crumby components (cheapo innerds). My (roughly) 3$/watt amp is a big jump from my old cube, and adjusting for inflation, probably less expensive per watt....but a real jump in quality and more listenable, even at higher loudness, at which you'd expect its 35% lower RMS power to suffer. If my old panels are above 86 or 87 db/watt, I'd be surprised. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11163 Registered: May-04 | . I can begin a thread. But there's not much to say. The mainstream high efficiency speakers are a mediocre lot overall. I would not suggest most people buy a pair of Klipsch or JBL's. Highly efficient speakers such as the Fostex and Lowthers are not for everyone. Even I am not interested in the ballpark where Lowthers play, too much money, too much cabinet. But the few times I have heard a Lowther driver remain in my memory. Like the original Quads, the Lowthers are quite the gnat's elbows, the monkey's eyebrows and the bee's knees. I just find the idea of 1% efficient speakers to be ludicrous. With the technology applied to loudspeakers today you would think someone could produce a high efficiency system that broke a few rules. And you do not want to get me started on the inefficiencies of the typical crossover network in high end speakers. One piece of advice where I found I was in agreement with Paul Klipsch was his desire for a good five watt amplifier. In general I just would not be putting his speakers with such an amplifier. . |
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Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 182 Registered: Jan-07 | Sounds like this is why the hi-efficiency, single driver setup is mainly the playground of the really committed, home, DIY guy with superior woodworking skills! As for 'a high efficiency system that broke a few rules.' It's AGAINST the LAW. Sorry. Just like Al Gore's kid just got popped driving 100+ in a PRIUS!! |
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New member Username: Holy_carpPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-07 | I have an old issue of Nuts and Volts with a Step by Step guide for building a tube preamp. I don't have very high quality speakers, so would I notice any difference by adding a tube preamp? The article only describes the sound as "warmer", but I can't imagine what that means. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8466 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi Carp. By all means you will notice a big difference if you introduce a home-built tube preamp into your system. Better? You tell me. Fix them speakers. Skol! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11172 Registered: May-04 | . Do you have a system that will allow using a pre amp? What are you using now? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11919 Registered: May-04 | . Happy New Year to all the tube users on the forum and also to those hedonistic solid state devotees. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9525 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks JV. I think. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5840 Registered: Feb-05 | Same to ya JV...enjoy the Scotch tonight...I know I will! |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 981 Registered: May-06 | Happy New Year to you JV from a hedonistic tube user, Macallen 12 year old fine oak is one of the options as well as 4 different tequilas and Grey Goose, chilled of course, with various other libations. A variety of beers and wines as well. Oh yeah, eats too! LOL Y'all come by if you like. I will be spinning whatever anyone wants on the TT tonight (except of course if I only have it on CD). |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9528 Registered: Dec-04 | Bread. I wanna hear some Bread. |
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Bronze Member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 86 Registered: Apr-05 | This is amazing. I thought I had some skills when I brought a Dynaco ST-70 back to life. http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.html |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1014 Registered: May-06 | I appreciate seeing how someone can do this. However skeptical, I have to believe that most are mass produced with much much less personal involvement. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4783 Registered: Dec-03 | £300 to spend a a tube amp please |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9564 Registered: Dec-04 | Death, taxes and tube talk. |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1438 Registered: Dec-03 | Add dirty laundry to the list and you have just about covered all the facts of life Nuck. Thank you and best regards JV. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12029 Registered: May-04 | . Howdy-do, Rick. Checking up on the thread you started? If you haven't followed along, I've (at least temporarily) replaced the 3/5a's. Thanks for offering your speakers awhile back but I'm quite pleased as is with http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zigmahornet/zigmahornet.html I've obtained a second set of drivers and currently use the speakers as dipoles. I really think I'd be hard pressed to do better with anything I can afford. The speakers don't do loud but neither do I. My tubes remain largely unchanged. I swapped a different set of NOS Amperex tubes into the line stage and tuned up the CD performance a bit. For $70 a pair it was a pretty decent deal. The tubes in my phono stage are now selling for $180 the pair (I bought several sets twenty years ago for $20@ pair) so I'm dreading the time when they require replacement. Otherwise, things are good in my system for another twenty years or so - hopefully. How about yours? . |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1439 Registered: Dec-03 | JV, I drop in from time to time to see if the thread is still alive. Best of luck with the new speakers. My system is really unchanged. I am quite happy with things as is. I am spending more time listening to live music these days. I have probably seen/heard more in the last year, than I have in the last 15 years. Also started taking guitar lessons. I figured as I push 60, I may as well learn how to really play these old Les Pauls of mine. LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9567 Registered: Dec-04 | JV, I second that you could not do better for the cost. A lot of people pay a lot more money for what you have there.Where are the 2nd drivers going? Rick, you fade in and out like a ghost. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12031 Registered: May-04 | . The plan is to simply build a dual Hornet with drivers front and rear. That could change once I have more time to play with four Hornet drivers but it seems like the best way to work with the speakers for now. First, the rest of the house must get painted. This house gets bigger each time I pull the ladder out. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12032 Registered: May-04 | . Live music is where you need to stay focussed, Rick. It's great to sit in front of my system and listen to what I want to hear any time I want to listen but nothing sounds as good as live music. I've been doing quite a bit of listening to some very good live music - mostly free - for the past few years. It really tunes up what it is you need to get from your system. I hope to do the KNON Blues Fest again this year. Possibly MW will join me. Last year was great music all day long. Unfortunately, I still walk past my guitar several times a day. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9573 Registered: Dec-04 | When is that JV and where? I might tag along if I can. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 12040 Registered: May-04 | . The guitar is sitting in my living room, Nuck, Sure, you can walk by too. |
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