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New member Username: AlonzoubPost Number: 5 Registered: Apr-10 | Is it safe to assume that a 3-way coaxial speaker has built in filters for each stage? More specifically http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Speakers/A-Series/ Premier/TS-A532P Im looking into getting new speakers for my car and Im going with a Component set for the front but only Coaxials in the back in order to save alittle cash. I read a post over on caraudio.com (http://caraudio.com/forum/speakers/174419-wheres-crossover-coaxial-speakers.html) and im not quiet sure what to make of it. Also what are your opinions on Pioneer Premeire series Component/Coaxial speakers. Are they good Quality? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 13095 Registered: Dec-03 | triaxial. coaxial is 2-way They have HPFs for the tweeter and super-tweeter, but no HPF for the midrange, so you still need something to block bass from the midrange to keep it from bottoming out. usually the head unit or amplifier can provide this. personally I'd skip rear speakers entirely, but if you insist on using them, I'd skip the triaxials and go with a straight midrange component speaker, then wire both rears in series and bridged an amplifier to run them in mono. http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/rearfill.html |
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New member Username: AlonzoubPost Number: 6 Registered: Apr-10 | ah, i was under the impression that they were called coaxials because all of the drivers "co"exist on the same "axis". O well... as far as the bridged midrange in the back, i guess i can do midrange drivers in the rear, but I will be running these directly off the headunit because I cannot afford to buy a 4 channel amplifier. Just wondering tho, is there any specific reason you would want to go mono in the rear when you could just use each channel normally? |
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New member Username: AlonzoubPost Number: 7 Registered: Apr-10 | scratch that last question, just noticed that link to the rear fill explanation. I also just started reading your posts for the guy asking about "what woudl you do if it was your car" and I noticed this post: Yes, the amp will make a night and day difference over a head unit. head units can only really supply about 10-20 watts RMS per channel, with poor S/N, and a lot of THD. A good, separate class AB amplifier will be cleaner, have MUCH more head room, and really allow the speakers to perform the way they are meant to work, even with as little as 40-50 watts RMS per channel @ 4 ohms I do have this OLD MTX Blue Thunder PRO 504 4-channel amplifier that is currently ghetto rigged to this PC powering 2 Infinity Refrence EL bookshelf speakers and a Home theater subwoofer bridged on the rear channels. I really dont want to part with this speaker setup i have in my room but do you think that using this amplifer versus using http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_105KDA615/JVC-Arsenal-KD-A615.html this stereos 20 watt signal will make a "night and day diffrence" PS: If I recall correctly i believe the MTX 4ch amp only puts out 25 x 4 watts on a 4ohm load. |
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Bronze Member Username: BloodforgePost Number: 30 Registered: Mar-10 | Amp will make a world of difference on your sound quality, i'm running an kenwood excelon HU, which is by no means high end, just mid-range at best, i ran my infinity kappas I used to have off the head unit for about a month, couldn't turn it up past 60% or so without horrible distortion, hooked up an infinity 4 channel amp, and these speakers which sounded just OK on the head unit power, sounded crisp and clean running off the amp. I believe even at 25 watts per channel I think the signal will be a helluva lot cleaner than the 15-20rms your head unit is putting out. So I'd say sacrafice your indoor speaker setup, atleast try it out. Then just spend a little change and pickup a good set of pc speakers with a sub from staples or ebay or something. Or just shop around on ebay for a good home audio amp |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 13099 Registered: Dec-03 | eh, the old blue thunder amps weren't taht good honestly. You'd be better off, in my opinion, to skip rear speakers entirely and use that money toward a decent little 2 channel amp (even a used one on ebay) to drive the front speakers. I also believe that a good pair of 2-way coax speakers will sound better than a "3-way" triaxial (3 axis, 3 speakers) because "more isn't always better." A good pair of Alpine Type R coax speakers would sound fantastic with an amp putting out about 40 watts RMS x 2 @ 4 ohms. That's the route I'd choose. That arselan unit is a nice one, but no ehad unit can physically house a good amplifier section due to space and cooling limitations so you're always stuck with about 15 watts RMS per channel from a small class T amplifier that will yield a nigh TH and low S/N ratio (won't sound that good or get very loud) yeah for a PC, heh I have a set of Logitechs I picked up for about $30 that sound terrific (I was actually impressed with them albiet I bought them just as something cheap to use) for a 2.1 setup. They get very loud, and clean, and the imaging is great. They sound better than most of the jerry rigged setups like the one you described from my experience. If I want higher end audio I use a wireless connection from my PC to an Onkyo TX-NR5007 AV networked receiver, which acts as a pre-amp to a Krell KSA-200 amplifier that drives a pair of MartinLogan Vantage mains and an Energy 12" sub. That's if I want to do critical listening, though. |
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New member Username: AlonzoubPost Number: 8 Registered: Apr-10 | alright well ive seen a decent amount of 2 channel amplifers being sold on craigslist in my area (orlando), maybe ill look into sparing some change for one. as far as ive seen you guys like the type R components, which I thought were expensive but i see that they are only $25 more than the Pioneer Premiers i was looking into. http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_17570_Alpine_SPR-13S.aspx vs http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_19142_Pioneer_Premier_TS-D520C.aspx Ive never done speaker installs before so you could call me a noob, but wont running the rear stock speakers off the HU while running 50 RMS to the front make them sound weak as hell (not to mention distortion) to any passangers i have in the back? should I rig up my own little HPF for the rears? and if i do find a good deal on a nice 4ch amp, what specific midbass drivers will do the job and not break the bank? I apreciate all the help ive gotten so far, also if you have a link for that 2.1 setup u got for $30 that sounds amazing go ahead and post it for me, im intrigued EDIT: few minutes on craigslist and found this: http://orlando.craigslist.org/pts/1701852929.html i assume this is the amp: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_22478_Clarion+XR2410.html worth a 30min drive u think? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 13108 Registered: Dec-03 | may be that one. clarion has been around for a LONG time. it could be any one of a lot of amplifiers they have made. see if ou can find another amp or two to choose from, too.. just to shop around. good start though! The Type R speakers are very nice. great low end response for components when amplified. A touch aggressive but you want that for most modern music, unless all you really listen to is jazz and the like. You may want to re-read my article on rear fill and how it can ruin your imaging and soundstage in the front. Honestly, forget the rear passengers. You aren't buying this stuff for them. Midrange is all they'll need back there. What size speakers are in your rear shelf? 6x9? 5x7? 5.25"? I can find you a midrange set fairly cheap if I know the size, I think. |
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New member Username: AlonzoubPost Number: 10 Registered: Apr-10 | rears and fronts are 6x8, but i can get 5.25" fittings because 5.25" seems to be much more common and cheaper. I drive a 2005 Mazda 3 if that helps at all. And I am mostly into Death Metal/ Metalcore genres but also listen to pretty much all genres EXCEPT for Country. I also havn't mentioned this yet and it may effect what your idea for my setup may be, but I do plan on fiberglassing a single sealed 10" sub in the trunk, most likely an Infinity Kappa Perfect but I still have not decided. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 13119 Registered: Dec-03 | http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=292-200 a pair of these would work perfectly. wire them in parallel (they are 8 ohm drivers) and put them on a bridged pair of rear channels from an amp. mono signal 4 ohm load you can attenuate the signal going to them through the head unit, and notch filter them for about 250Hz-5KHz. |
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Bronze Member Username: AlonzoubPost Number: 11 Registered: Apr-10 | aaaah nice and inexpensive, I like it. I Started looking at new 4 channel amps just because I cant seem to find any good deals on ebay/craigslist. I know this is a post in the Speakers section of the forum but since were already conversing, what's your opinion on a Class D 4-channel Amp, i know they are normally used in monoblocks so im not quiet sure what the diffrence would be. Specifically i was looking at this amp: http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_099EA4200/Eclipse-EA4200.html im gonna assume u meant bandpass filter 250-5kHz cuz a notch wudnt make much sense here :P. And is it necessary to do anything through the headunit if I make my own passive filter? once again I appreciate all the help. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfColumbia, SC USA Post Number: 13124 Registered: Dec-03 | that amp will work just fine. yeah a bandpass filter. I'd just gotten out of bed when I typed that and was still a little fuzzy. My cats kept me up most of the night knocking things over. Anyway, nothing you need to do with the head unit if you build your own passive bandpass filter for that range. The only thing you may do is cut the signal level a bit to the rears to quiet them down a bit (fade to front channels more) Ideally, you don't really want to notice the rears at all. |