Considering the move to separates from a HK AVR85. Using NHT 2.5i's. Overall, I like the HK sound (not offensive but not much "wow factor" either) but looking at NAD or Rotel for separates. Based on reviews/comments/aesthetics I'm leaning towards Rotel but concerned that newer (10 series) has a "brightness" issue that keeps coming up in reviews. Overall, I like to listen for hours and do not like overly bright sound (e.g. I had some MB Quart car speakers and they drove me nuts). That points me more towards Rotel 9 series (the bright word hardly ever shows up) but I'm having trouble tracking some down (lost 3 auctions on Ebay already and Audigon has limited selection in pre-amps).
My question is how do the NAD and Rotel sound compare? How would each sound relative to the HK sound? Since there is no Rotel dealer within a 100 miles of here, I can't audition both. NAD seems much easier to come by so considering them. Anyone with experience specifically with NHT's?
Well, if you're looking for a discontinued Rotel 9 series amp, I would consider the RHB/RHC (Michi) line, which is also discontinued, but much better! In fact I don't think they have made such a good amp since them (RHB), except maybe the latest top amp. In my opinion Rotel has much more detail (I'm speaking of the 9 series) than NAD, much more current available, which could (usually does) lead to false sense of warmth from the NAD, when in fact it lacks detail. As for Adcom, I never heard anything negative, but also have never heard them. As for NHT, aren't they demanding speakers? What's their sensitivity? If it's below 88-89dBm, go for a Rotel/Adcom. If above, try NAD. Enjoy
Haven't seen any reviews or info about RHB/RHC. Have seen RB and RC of course.
I'll keep my eyes open.
As for the speakers here are the specs: Sensitivity = 86dB @ 2.83V/M; 6 ohm; suggested power 35w - 200w/ch. Can be bi-amped.
J. Vigne
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Not everyone will agree but this is my opinion:
NAD - Sins of omission. Usually the best kind of things going "wrong". Does nothing bad but lacks some of the refinement of better equipment. Doesn't cost as much as "better" equipment. Factory support has disappeared. Dealers are the people you ask questions about NAD. Make certain you buy from a dealer who can help you.
Rotel - Very good sound if you can match speakers to its character. Not for everyone, but can be spectacular. Has sins of commission. These are more noticable than omission. Rotel has decent factory support and good reliablity.
HK - Very easy to listen to over a long period of time. Has a combination of both commission and omission. Doesn't do anything particularly bad but doesn't set the world on fire. But HK doesn't require the matching that Rotel does and has more life than NAD. HK is also very reliable in my experience. I have HK Citation 12 power amp and 720 reciever that are over 30 years old.
I don't think amps from 10+ years ago can be compared with new ones on the reliability front, from any manufacturer. Truth is products these days in just about every sector aren't made with extreme longetivity in mind like they were in the (good) old days. In the 70's especially, products were built like tanks and designed to last as long as possible. In my experience this just isn't the case these days. So just because I may have a Nad amp or an HK amp that's lasted 20+ years I don't think I can reasonably expect that company (or any other) to be churning-out products with similar lifespans. Cynical maybe but proven in my book.
Agree with you, that's why I just love the Michi line of Rotel (discontinued). These days almost all compnies no matter the business, got to the conclusion that it gives more money to manufacture cheaper equipments, over the reliability issue, which implies smaller quality control tolerances. Enjoy!
RA - Integrated amps RB - Power amps RC - Preamps RHB was a special state of the art series power amp (05 and 10) - "MICHI" line RHA the same as above for integrated amps RHC the same as above for preamps
With 86 dBm, I would listen to NAD 218 THX, for warmth (2 x 200W), Rotel RB1080 for detail and that B&K for the in between. Do you have access to a shop containing these 3? Always listen before buy, and don't change more than 1 component when comparing. Enjoy
Joao, unfortunately I have limited access to any of these. The Rotel will be the hardest to come by (100 miles). Possibly some NAD locally but very limited selection. B&K available but in AV receiver config. only.
I tend to prefer detail. I chose the NHT's (I used to live in Chicago so I had access to many brands) for their neutrality and listenability. For example, I remember listening to Definitive Tech speakers and found them muddled and colored -- not natural sounding. I demo'd some B&W's (bookshelf - CDM???) and liked the detail but too light on bass. They also seemed kind of bright to me but not too bad. Liked the Paradigm (can't remember if 60's, 80's or 100's) but really liked the NHT's -- still do. (this was all about 6 years ago.) The HK does a good enough job but I would like more. Also, the display light is out so I have no idea what volume I'm at and can't see the menu without running it through the TV.
My gut says go with Rotel but from J. Vigne's post and other comments I've read it seems speaker match is a bit more critical with Rotel. Seems like the number of Rotel/B&W matches out there is staggering. However, I've seen very little comments about a Rotel/NHT match up.
Also, I have the NAD C740 used in another room with Paradigm Atom's. The match up is kind of boomy but it may be since I don't have speaker stands and the speakers are on my dresser. Have tried the NAD with the NHT's but at 35 w/ch, I don't think it's giving me a true indication.
Bottomline, I like the sound detailed, natural and neutral. The NHT's give me that. My concern is that the NAD may hide some of that while the Rotel may push them into a too bright situation. The HK is okay but I have the fever. Unfortunately, I can't demo any of these so that's why I'm seeking advice here.
It's starting now to look like NAD. I was on the NHT sight and the NAD gets recommended there (Rotel and HK are also discussed but much less frequently). One frequent poster that used to own a shop selling NHT's recommends the NAD - says NHT's need a "velvet hammer" amp.
Thinking about the C270 amp (2x120) and initially using my C740 (receiver) as a pre. I'd like to try the Rotel but bottom line I think I would rather sacrifice some potential gains performance than risk some potential sonic distress!
I can vouch for the Rotel RHB-10 power amp. I've got one hooked up to an audiolab preamp and powering infinity renaissance speakers...bags of detail and power.
Tks, mate, one hell of a game! Pity the spanish don't go with us, I would like it better if Russia had won 2 nill and Spain go with us. But are you interested on some datasheet for the RHB-10, go here and download it
I have same dilemna. Currently have HK AVR225 (used to have AVR85 and also got rid of because of technical problems). I too am giving a close look at Rotel....and have the same question about their general sonic signature compared to othe HK. This thread is helpful. Some have said that Rotel is a little bit bright - but some say that of HK. So maybe they DO sound alike?! My Current AVR225 has 24/192 onboard DAC's so am getting the benefit of that (or believe that I am anyway!). I'm worried that NAD will sound a little too warm and rolled-off on the highs. My budget is up to $2500-so any suggestions would be welcomed. I'd prefer to spend far less-but don't want to buy new [Rotel or anything at the price] and end up with little or no improvement. I use a NHT subwoofer with a 250w Sunfire internal amplifier so that takes some load off the amp.
Walt, I feel your pain. I've seen the Rotel described as bright by some and as warm and dark by others! There seems to be a consistent theme that puts Rotel above NAD in terms of sound quality and reliability. Nevertheless, I have an NAD C270 on the way for a test drive (unfortunately if I don't like it I'm out a 15% restocking fee plus shipping). I already have an NAD C740 receiver that I'm going to use as a pre-amp. I'll let you know how it works. I'm also considering picking up some Rotel equip on Audiogon or Ebay for a test. Since these products seem to hold their value, I assume I can turn it back around if necessary. Sure this will cost me about $100 per trial but it's my only real option at this point.
BTW, I've just posted a similar query on the NHT message board. Hopefully, those who've tried either or both will lend some advice.
Overall, this message board has been very helpful. Thanks to all.
well personally i've never heard the rotel being described as warm nor the hk as being bright. "i'm not saying people haven't but i've seen many a post on these 2 and they generally follow this"
"as i do also" i would give the hk charector as being warm. and definatly not getting anywhere near bright.
and the rotel as being neutrel to possably the slight bright side of neutrel.but not really bright. and definatly not warm.
and i would put nad in the middle of both.
now this is my personal oppinion and have seen many of these units described this way since i've been on these threads.
Well, for my experience the 9 series of Rotel can be warmer than NAD, though I reckon the 10 series is brighter than the 9. But what Walt wants is an Receiver, and for 2500 tops, it will be hard to beat the sound of an RSX1067 or 1065, with 7 x 100W RMS, 7.1 surround
THANKS Joao for your thoughts on this. They really ARE helpful. Actually, I don't need a receiver, so my choices are open. I could go for separates, or a stereo receiver (don't want surround sound), or an integrated-which likely would be the most cost efficient. I get radio via my TV cable, so receiver not neccessary. BTW, the radio on cable is terrific as are the commercial-free music channels-digital quality (have to pay for the digital converter). What about Rotel RA1062 or RA1070? or.... the NAD C162/c272 combination?? Or Magnum Dynalab 308? ...or Linn Classik? My AE1 MkIII speakers supposedly don't present a big load to the amp, and they're rated 87db, so shouldn't 50wpc+ be adequate for low to moderate listening level in a 14' X 18' room? Any comments appreciated.
I meant AV Receiver... As for the Rotel/NAD/Dynalab/Linn sets you can't compare integrated ones with separates ones. On the same power range, the separates should always sound better, due to less stress. Decide whether you want separates or integrateds, and go for a listening session. After you get to one or two sets, then go for the other kind till you get one or two sets of it. Only then you can compare separates with integrated. Enjoy
As i said earlier, I think for the NHT's anything less than 2 x 100-125W RMS won't give you the true dimension of the speakers Enjoy
sullivc
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Ive a had a Rotel RA/RCD/Monitor Audio C6 setup now for 6 months. The set really needs to be heated up for a good half hour, (Below the Bassline/Ernest Raglin works well), let things settledown, then I consistently find that you would have put on a favourite CD eg Jacques Loussier Trio - Baroque Favourites (Telarc "at rude prices" CD) & the music just catches your attention, its uncanny. But as other reviewers have said, it will show up a laousy recording, ie half my CD collection! Its good gear at value prices - Just buy the set and enjoy it, and budget for a new cd set!
sullivc, Just a comment or two on your post. First, ALL amps need half an hour to warm up. In fact, NO reviewer will test an amp w/o the standard 1/3 hour warm up time. Second, if HALF your cd collection is practically unlistenable, you really should find new speakers. Phase is the issue here. Speakers with phase problems will make all but the best recordings sound nasty. How do you know if your speaker has phase issues? Here's a good guide. If the system is 2 way or three way(or more) it's probably got phase problems. If the crossover is more than a first order (6db/octave) it's definately got phase problems. Lets see.......that eliminates 90% of consumer speakers. Did it eliminate yours?
So am I right in thinking phase is the intergration between the drive units?
Also what do you mean by a first order crossover (6db/octave)? In laymans terms if you could (simple as). I'm must admit I'm not too familiar with techno talk. Your reply is much appreciated.