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New member Username: Brannigans_lawHouston , TX Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-10 | i just bought a denon avr 590, and paired it to two cerwin vega ve 12's. the reciever is 75 watts/channel, and the speakers handle about 150(rms). am i sending enough power to the speakers? i can turn it up pretty damn loud and it sounds good as far as i can tell (i live in an apt so its not a huge space to fill). do i need to worry about clipping when i really push it? knowing also, and sorry if this is a dumb question, but as far as ive read my reciever doesnt allow for a preamp... is there any way to add 100watts of power to the speakers? |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1005 Registered: Feb-08 | Not necessarily a dumb question but why do you feel you need to max out the speakers? The Denon should not ever clip and I would think (hope) that in an apartment you would have plenty of volume so I am confused as to why you would want to Tim Taylor it (so to speak)! |
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New member Username: Brannigans_lawHouston , TX Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-10 | haha well the reason i mention it is because i have some friends that said youre worse off undermatching the speakers rms (75w powering 150rms speakers). as opposed to have a little extra on tap. plus, we both know its nice to have the option to "Tim Taylor it" if you so choose.. |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1006 Registered: Feb-08 | Prior to letting the smoke out of your new speakers, as Tim Taylor tends to do so often, see if this makes any sense to you. On the one hand you can certainly have more actual power than the speaker can actually handle as long as you never use it (Tim Taylor's cars) and MAYBE a speaker with really low sensitivity would sound better if you did that but your CV's won't have too much trouble making your ears bleed (in more ways than one perhaps) with the power you already. |
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New member Username: Brannigans_lawHouston , TX US Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-10 | so since im running the speakers at half of the RMS, is that to say that i dont have to worry about hurting my CV's. no matter how high i turn it up? also, would i be correct to say that my reciever doenst allow for adding power(watts)? thanks for answering my dumb questions by the way |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1007 Registered: Feb-08 | Happy to help! I suspect that your ears will hurt (and neighbors call the cops) long before your speakers are damaged. If you receiver has pre-outs then you can easily add an amplifier if you wish. If you do and it makes ANY difference at all please let me know! Enjoy! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3631 Registered: May-05 | The speaker's wattage handling is pretty much meaningless. Its easier to ruin a speaker by underpowering it than overpowering it. Underpowering causes distortion from the amp, which will blow a tweeter. Its pretty easy to tell when an amp is clipping - overworked and putting out distortion. Adding an amp won't add wattage, per se. If you have a 50 watt receiver and add a 100 watt amp, you won't end up with 150 watts. You'll have the amp's 100 watts only. Unless you're clipping your amp or constantly playing at absurd levels, I'd be very surprised if you were using more than about 20 - 30 watts RMS for most regular to even somewhat loud levels. |
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New member Username: Brannigans_lawHouston , TX US Post Number: 4 Registered: Jan-10 | ok im just wanting the peace of mind to know that im getting great sound/power out of my set up, and that my speakers and reciever will last me. cause even though i plan on buying much more down the road. i want these to last as long as they can. and id hate to be oblivious to any damage or underpowering i might be doing. ya know? |
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New member Username: EsowdenRichmond, KY Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-10 | Regardless of the maximum output of a receiver/amp - you'll probably never use it at full power. 20 watts into your speakers would be incredibly loud. Higher wattage amps do give you more headroom but at typical listening levels it's rarely needed. |
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New member Username: Brannigans_lawHouston , TX US Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-10 | ok now im a little confused, if im only using on average 20-50 watts. am i hurting my speakers? if not how is it people are always saying sending not enough watts to your speakers is bad? |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1010 Registered: Feb-08 | Forget the term underpowered!!!! It is as misleading as the RMS numbers and nothing to worry about!!!! Your Denon is not going to damage your speakers. The major concern is amplifier clipping and your Denon is protected against this. Clipping happens when cheap or not well protected amplifiers are overDRIVEN at full volume. The term underpowered seems to get tossed around because generally the amps that do this are cheap, low powered and, more importantly, would be more likely to be run at excessive levels for a period of time. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3632 Registered: May-05 | You're only hurting your speakers when the amp "clips" or distorts due to being driven too hard. Forget about how many watts you're using or should be using. As long as the amp isn't clipping, you have enough power. Wattage is like horsepower in a car. Going in a straight line down the road at 30 mph, you may only be using 30 hp of your 300 hp engine. Going 90 mph, you may be using 200 hp. With the volume at 3, you may only be using 10 watts of your 100 watt amp. At 8, you may be using 90 watts. Unless the amp is clipping, the wattage numbers are worthless. You should only be concerned if the amp is clipping. That's realistically the only way you're going to damage anything. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14456 Registered: May-04 | . "The major concern is amplifier clipping and your Denon is protected against this." How is the Denon "protected" against clipping? "define audio amplifier clipping" = http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-hptb5&p=define%20audio%20amplifi er%20clipping&type= . |
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Gold Member Username: JrbayLivonia [Detroit area], Michigan USA Post Number: 1011 Registered: Feb-08 | From the Denon website: "In the rare event that very low impedances tax the amplifier, quick acting circuitry will protect it from damage. If unusual operating conditions trigger this circuitry, the word "PROTECTION" will appear on the unit's front panel. If this happens, simply turn the unit off, wait a moment or two, and turn the unit back on again. The protection circuitry will automatically reset. If it re-engages, check your system for possible malfunctions such as intermittently shorting speaker wires, damage speaker drivers or it may be as simple as turning the volume down a little as not to cause the amplifier(s) to go into protection due to overdriving them." |
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New member Username: EsowdenRichmond, KY Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-10 | "ok now im a little confused, if im only using on average 20-50 watts. am i hurting my speakers? if not how is it people are always saying sending not enough watts to your speakers is bad?" ...mostly ignorance on their part. Many confuse home speaker use with PA use. A typical PA system is driven near or at limit depending on the venue. A home system rarely (if ever) needs that kind of volume. Rooms are smaller, extraneous noise levels are smaller, etc. Regardless of your amp's maximum wattage - you'll probably never exceed 20 watts of output. (an over-simplification at best but true.) As another poster commented -- as long as your amp isn't clipping -- you have nothing to worry about. As sensitive as your speakers are and considering your receiver -- your ears will probably bleed before clipping comes into play. |
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New member Username: Brannigans_lawHouston , TX US Post Number: 6 Registered: Jan-10 | right on, you guys are very helpful i cant wait to add more speakers to my setup. ill probably stick with CV's |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 14459 Registered: May-04 | . ""In the rare event that very low impedances tax the amplifier, quick acting circuitry will protect it from damage." There's a big difference between clipping and being shut down to protect against a too low impedance load and the thermal conditions associated with driving a 3 Ohm load at volume. "If it re-engages, check your system for possible malfunctions such as intermittently shorting speaker wires, damage speaker drivers or it may be as simple as turning the volume down a little as not to cause the amplifier(s) to go into protection due to overdriving them." As I read it, that says the amplifier will clip and could damage speakers by clipping. It would appear that unless there are obvious malfunctions within the system such as shorted cables the Denon system is simply monitoring thermal stability. Most modern amplifiers of this sort have protection curcuitry which shuts them down due to thermal instability or shorted cables. That's very different however from a circuit which compares input to output and minimizes the conditions which account for clipping. Though their sophistication varies with manufacturer, the few companies that offer such clipping "protection" are typically relying on some variation of a compressor to reduce peaks on the input side which would drive the amplifier beyond its wattage limits. That sort of clipping protection would not apear to be what Denon is offering. . |