I decided to take the time and get a definitive answer on what happens with HDMI upconversion. This is information is coming directly from Onkyo support so barring the possibility that the tech did not know what he was talking about this should be accurate.
First I wanted to offer my explanation of what is meant by a THX recommendation for a setup regardless of what it is. THX specifications are not an implication that if you do not comply with their recommendation that you are going to have poor results necessarily. It only means that if your media (movies usually) and your gear meet with THX specifications that you are seeing and hearing it in the ideal manner THX standards intended or the way it was originally recorded. If your source is not a THX certified source and your speakers and display device are not THX certified then their recommendations are not pertinent because you will not see and hear it in the manner intended anyway because there was no intent to begin with. In my case the Wii is not a THX certified source so the THX recommendation has nothing to do with poor results I am seeing. The poor results are a loss in translation by the receiver that should not exist and was never intended to be an inherent problem that could be corrected meeting stringent THX standards. In other words upconverting component to HDMI in this manner was supposed to work. THX standards and my problem are two completely different issues.
The HDMI upconversion is as you suspected with my Onkyo TX-SR705. It will upscale signal but only does so from 480i to 480p. Obviously analog to digital for any source. Also any component source will only be delivered to the display as 720p regardless of the native resolution so if you connect component 1080i to the receiver you will only get 720p on hdmi out from the receiver.
There are models that do upscale though. The TX-SR706 and TX-SR806 upscale any source to 1080i. The TX-SR876 and TX-SR906 upscale any source to 1080p.
Well that makes things about as clear as mud doesn't it? Not to say anything but thanks for your effort on this subject but the next question would be WHY??? Are they mad???
OK, so in summary Onkyo alone has at least 3 and maybe 4 different HDMI confusion factors going for it that being "pass-through", up to 720p, up to 1080i, and up to 1080p with the 4th likely being what 605 or 505 might do. As far as HDMI making things simple well Onkyo certainly isn't doing their part!!!
Sorry about that Jeff, your information is great. I am definitely saying that I am disappointed with Onkyo and the need for you to work so hard to get the info provided!!! I may be shooting at the stars here but anything less than full conversion and a 1.3 version is CONFUSING!!! Customers should not be treated this way if they expect to sell new product with this "wonderful" new HDMI technology!!!
I think all the new models do full 1080p conversion for any source. They said that when the technology was introduced that the failure to do full 1080i or 1080p was due to a limitation of the chip that had not been worked out. I believe he said it was the faroudja chip. Again the 706 and the 806 are limited to 1080i upconversion but any newer model does full upscaling. Whether or not that really matters I do not know. I guess it remains to be seen whether full upscaling really does anything to improve results but hopefully not any degradation similar to what I am seeing. Also the new models come with charts that explian how everything is happening with hdmi upconversion and upscaling.
HDMI is a product that is still devoloping. Earlier HDMI receivers could only act as switching station for video only. Only now do we get full audio and video switching with HDMI. Your Onkyo 705 was an earlier product and for reasons like keeping cost down with new technology the HDMI was limited. The 706 model now does HDMI upconversion and the next model will improve on that some how. Also HDMI are improving every year nexy we will see HDMI 1.3a,1.3b, and 1.3c these newer version will deal more with the remore controll operation as opposed to better audio and video.
Thanks Casey, I am not sure what you are saying. Are you talking about upscaling or the ability of the receiver to process audio and video with hdmi upconversion. I do get HD quality audio from the receiver via HDMI -Tru HD and DTS HD. I can connect any type of source and get that thru the hdmi output to display. The receiver is not merely pass-thru it is HDMI 1.3a and is not just a switching station. If it were pass thru I would have to use another connection for audio. What we were discussing was whether the HDMI upconversion involved resolution upscaling. What I determined was that there was upscaling with faroudja but only 480i to 480p. Explain please?
I guess my wording was confusing. I didn't mean to say that the 705 was so early in the HDMI development that it was only a switching station. I was talking about earlier versions of HDMI receivers. The point I was trying to make is that HDMI is still developing and we still don't have the final version. Upscaling of video in a receiver is also new and will improve over time as the earlier versions may have only upscaled 480i to 480P.
I see the 806 has "component video upconversion." Not being interested in the extra power and better THX package, is it worth spending the extra $$ over the 706 to get the component upconversion in the 806?
Also, are there any concerns for HD quality loss? For example, if I have a 720p HD cable signal going into the 806, should I just set it to "Pass Through" or let it convert to 1080i, and then let my TV convert it to 1080p? It makes me nervous to take a progressive signal to an interlaced one, and then back to a progressive, even though it's increasing pixel count.
I'm trying to decide if I should go with the TX-SR706 or 806, and my only point of interest between the two is the component video upconversion. Is it worth the extra cash?
If this is your only point of interest then there really is nothing to consider. Both the 706 and 806 do the same thing with the signal. What I would consider is how much difference upconversion really makes anyway. I have seen it argued that there is really little difference between a signal in its native resolution and the signal with that resolution upconverted more often than I have seen it said that it actually improves things.
To me the best feature that you derive from this sort of setup is simplicity and the reduction in the number of cables that you have to use. What I am referring to is the ability to pass any source to the TV via one HDMI output instead of having to have each type of source separately connected to the TV.
To me the native resolution is what it is and no matter what you do to it you are still dealing with whatever that resolution is. The best thing to do is plan your system around that fact meaning get the best native resolution you can and not try to turn a lower resolution into something that its not.
What originally prompted this discussion was an observation of a degredation in resolution due to a loss in translation and not that the signal needed to be "upconverted" to improve that. Most importantly what needs to be considered was the highest resolution that would be delivered by my receiver via a component input. My 705 will only output 720p to the TV via HDMI from a component input even if the source resolution is up to 1080p. This is not a consideration with the 706 and th 806 as both of those receivers will deliver a component input to the TV via hdmi as 1080i. Hope this helps!
Guys this is based on what the Onkyo tech I talked to told me so unless he was wrong......
I just bought the 706. I have the HDMI cables to and from the receiver. When watching a movie it says " HDMI Through" Does that mean its upconverting or just passing through it? I have the samsung blue ray and samsung lcd ToC tv.
yeah its a samsung 1600 blue ray. Ive use blue ray and reg dvds. My reciever also says it has dolby digital and true hd and all that and the only thing I see lit up on the receiver display is dts. Im running optical straight from dvd player, It was the same when I just had the hdmi cable only hooked up too.
In that case the original answer is yes, the source is as good as it gets so the receiver does not do any conversion, therefore I would think you get your message of HDMI THROUGH.
The optical cable with an HDMI, as you may suspect, is redundant and unnecessary.
Regarding the surround format I believe the receiver will decode the best possible sound encoded on the disc you are playing. In other words, look at the disc you are playing to see what it is encoded with and if the receiver does not output that particular encoding then there are some settings that need to be changed by you on the receiver.
Yes, thank you. It sounds great. As I go through the surround modes it has the neo 6 thx and the thx 5.1 among several others. Its kinda funny because my girlfriend last night was getting upset at me cause I kept changing modes to see which one I liked best. LOL. They all sound pretty good, but the nueral thx 5.1 sounds awesome!! Thanks again for your time. Kenny
