Need B&W 685 opinions
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 758 Registered: Jan-05 | I'm thinking of upgrading my speakers to the Bowers & Wilkins 685 because I want a bigger and more musical sound over my AE neo 1s. I would go with a floorstander if the space allowed and after much consideration, I think the 685 would be my best bet! I feel like my current speakers are slightly boring a lot of the time, they're good and even look fab but I'm after more. Opinions on the 685 please, as I'd have to save up for these! Note that I have heard them in store and I liked them, but the bass was a little bloated. I think this was their store and setup since they had just had them a week. I'll be sticking with my A&R A60 amp. Thanks JJ |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12769 Registered: Dec-04 | The 685's will sound bloated anywhere, placement is meant to be in mid-room, no corners or walls. Don't think so JJ. Keep looking. Think bookshelves or standmounts with front ports, maybe the Focals? |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 759 Registered: Jan-05 | I was hoping that wouldn't be said but I'm glad thats the truth of the matter Nuck! I have considered the 706vs, I liked the highs on the 705s when I demo'd them, especially with string instruments, but going back to the neo 1s proved how much more detail, balance and bass impact they have. If only AE did a standmount with a slightly bigger main driver and cabinet!! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12771 Registered: Dec-04 | Adjust to a life of tradeoffs, JJ. Thats just my take on the 685's but I think it is a shared opinion. Ever heard Audio Note? The AN-E is MEANT to be in a corner or against a wall. Sonically diverse. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 760 Registered: Jan-05 | I should adjust more shouldnt i! Never heard of audio note, the AN-E looks interesting though, and HUGE! I'll also give the others a look too, I bet they're all expensive! Just found this website. http://www.bigearsaudio.org.uk/index.html Looking at the stuff on here..WOW! In the second hand speaker list, the Nuforces look very nice! Twin driver much like the aelite 2s I was considering and am I again since they have a pair on there for a good price! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12775 Registered: Dec-04 | The AN-E(england) and AN-j(Japan) are both fairly well regarded, with the E model winning the day. If you are thinking short term and $, JJ then look elsewhere, but the AN are well regarded and pretty flexible, you could go through a bunch of mid-fi stuff and end up with a good pair of speakers 5 tries from now. Don't pawnshop your tux for them, but consider... |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 761 Registered: Jan-05 | I'm intrigued to hear the Audio Notes now. What about the AN-X? That dealer does the AN-X 2? Or is this a little mid-fi too? |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 762 Registered: Jan-05 | Ignore that, I dont think they do that anymore! |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 145 Registered: Dec-06 | The 685 are on my list as a possibility if I opt for new speakers. I heard them and I enjoyed them, I guess what I've found through listening to many speakers is that I do enjoy that strong bass presence. What about the NHT Classic 3? On sale everywhere right now. Bass is probably similar to the 685 though. If you want a quicker, less bloated sound, then check out the new Tannoy Revolution series. I haven't heard them personally, but this is the impression I get from those who have. Not cheap though, retails for 600 pounds. http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-and-av-speak ers/tannoy-revolution-signature-dc6-356922/review A lot of people here seem to like the Totem Rainmaker too and sounds like it would have what you are after. How about the new Rega RS1? http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-and-av-speak ers/rega-rs1-96496/review Personally, if I opt for new speakers I will be listening to all of the above. They all seem like good options in the $600-$1,200 price range. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12783 Registered: Dec-04 | Tannoy know how to make good quality, high efficiency speakers, but I have questions about the finish(if that matters). Very good speakers, spotty dealers and support in Canada, as much as I have seen. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3672 Registered: Sep-04 | My views: I think the 685 (£389?) is possibly B&W's best speaker in that range. I quite like it (saying something), but it is big in the bass so if space is at a premium I would probably discount it as an idea. I also note you're using an A&R A60. The B&W is hard to drive so this is really not a very good idea in my view. Focal 706V (£379?) - easier to drive, more sensible in the bass and very very articulate in the midrange. Good speaker. That said, the A60 might struggle a bit. AE neo-1 (£not sure?) - not too different than the above in fidelity terms I think. Yes, the AE may have a bit betetr resolution than the others thanks to the ring radiator tweeter. Yes, the B&W's bass will impress a bit and yes the Focal's midrange will impress, but overall we're talking differences rather than improvements methinks. Things to consider: You mention wishing for a floorstander. Consider the Rega RS-3 (£684) or standmount RS-1 (£400). I was playing with the RS-3 on Saturday and I think it's a major improvement over the R-3. Very engaging, very easy to drive and more efficient than average so a snap to match your A60. Front ported so they can work closer to the wall than other speakers. This could be the answer, but a bit more expensive than the 685/706V (not too much more when you include stand price). Totem Dreamcatcher (£525). Tiny speaker but lots of fun with a big sound, even after considering the size. Naim n-Sat - an unsual choice from an unusual source. More expensive, designed to go against the wall. Some people complain that Naim speakers don't do bass, but I disagree and everybody who's heard them agrees that what's there is articulate and fast. The rest is like a wide open window by comparison to your current leaded glass. But they're not cheap at £785. All that said, I think you may be looking in the wrong place... All this rather depends on what electronics you're using. The A60 is out of the ark so should you be considering replacing a relatively new speaker when you're using such an old class A amplifier which is likely to be pretty shot already? (Class A operation is pretty hard on components.) Furthermore what about your source? If it's CD, then is it a good CD player or is that getting on too? If it's a record player then what is it and what condition is it in? If it's had its time, then perhaps the speakers aren't where you should be looking. You mentioned having heard the 685s in a shop. I'll bet it wasn't with your CD/amp. If it was, then at least you'll have heard something reasonably comparable (the room being the only other question mark), but if not, the shop's electronics will have been a completely different kettle of fish and could account for everything you heard. If you decide you really want to change speakers, then you should really take in your equipment to do direct comparisons against your AEs. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3350 Registered: May-05 | J., IMO, there's no point in tracking down all these speakers and spending the money if you don't settle the room issues. They'll sound great in a shop or in a room that's conducive to good sound, but at the end of the day you'll be disappointed all over again. I also agree with Frank's post. If you're looking for a great book shelf that's not too expensive (depending on your market of course), check out Audio Physic's entry level Yara line. I don't know your gear, but Yaras are pretty easy to drive and sound large, full, and excellent to my ears. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2737 Registered: Oct-04 | Just throwing it out there http://reviews.audioreview.com/blog/wharfedale-evo-2-10-bookshelf-speaker-user-r eview/ |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 2213 Registered: Jun-05 | The RS3 is very very nice. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 763 Registered: Jan-05 | Thanks for the replies here. Looked at the NHT classic 3s, I really cant say I'm a fan of the looks Dan. The Rega RS1s however are an option! And affordable. The RS3 arne't since I dont have the space to accomodate floorstanders. In September I'll be taking these to university with me and they NEED to be standmounts/bookshelfs since the room will only accomodate this. To amazement, my neo 1s only come in at £200 retail, today you can get them for about £150 which is superb imo. The dreamcatchers are another possibility fo sure, little expensive for me though atm. I look for the best deals I can get, I only ended paying £85 for my current speakers ;) The Yaras are pretty difficult to track down Stu, but they're German so certainly an option. But like you said the room issues will always play a roll, so perhaps sticking and being happy with what I have is the best solution. Already read the review Chris. I was bored too one day :P Frank, how did you mean by saying the A60 was likely shot? You'd be amazed what this thing can put out clearly. I replaced the fuses when I got it to give myself a piece of mind and the insides looked in very clean nic. Mechanically there are no problems touch wood! |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2738 Registered: Oct-04 | The Dreamcatchers are very good, great detail, fast, coherent, and deceptively large sounding; as are the Monitor Audio Radius R90 which are currently being closed-out in the States (along with the rest of the series), still the one of the very best small speaker I've ever listened to or laid my eyes on. Wharfedale doesn't do it for you Jarvis, I'm sure you've seen Art's thread? |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10095 Registered: Feb-05 | Since you mentioned them and recommended them Chris am I to assume that the Wharfedales do it for you? |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2739 Registered: Oct-04 | I'm not ready to comment yet on the EVO2-10, but they are beautiful (even in Maple) and the build-quality seems to be all there. You seem to love them (and I respect your opinion Art), and the review I posted seemed to concur with your general description & others that I've read, so they would seem to be a reasonable suggestion & certainly worth a listen along with the EVO2-8. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 764 Registered: Jan-05 | I honestly think the dreamcatchers are too small, they're smaller than my current speakers. If anything that'd be a step back. Read all of that dedicate post on the Wharfedales. I wish I could get them for a good deal, but I'm sure wharfedale will release a new version or equivalent which will be even betterer. On that note, Wharfedale Diamond 10 series is nearly out you know! After having owned a radius r45 system and hating it so much I sent it back 2 days later, I dont have much faith in wanting to try the r90s I'm afraid. There is also a new Monitor Silver line out in September, think they're starting around £400. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2741 Registered: Oct-04 | That R45 was just too weird a design, the R90 was very well executed, however it is very similar to the Dreamcatcher in many ways, including it's diminutive stature, so let's move on. There's always something new around the corner, so what are you leaning towards? |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 765 Registered: Jan-05 | I see, I'll give it that, it had a tweeter on the rear. They just sound tinny! I like the idea of the RS1 from rega so I may go about trying to find that for a listen at some point, however I do want to hear the new MA silvers when theyre out. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 766 Registered: Jan-05 | I've decided I'm definately waiting it out until September after what I've just found about the new Silver Range from MA. I hope its affordable!  |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2742 Registered: Oct-04 | Care to share that new MA Silver info with the rest of us? |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 767 Registered: Jan-05 | I swore not to! So I cant tell you that theres now two standmounts, the range is called RX and the RX2 has an 8 inch driver =D. Shh. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1273 Registered: Nov-06 | J. What about Mirage? I am not sure if you have heard any of their new designs, but they throw a positively massive soundstage, and IMHO are placement friendly. While some people will say they are a higher end Bose, I believe that they are a good speaker. I really enjoyed the older towers. They had a smooth, dark sound with deep, wide soundstage. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1274 Registered: Nov-06 | I know as of late they have gone home theater, but the om design series treads the line between midfi and the high end. http://www.miragespeakers.com/na-en/tags/om-design/ |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3678 Registered: Sep-04 | JJ, the A60 is getting on for 30 years old. Everything ages. If the amp hasn't been serviced (and I'm not sure who does this on A60s nowadays), then the output capacitors will be toward the end of their life, the output transistors will be working below their optimum level (at a minimum) and the general condition of the amp's components will be 'not what they once were'. Sure, it might still sound good, but for how long? So, in the choice between replacing nearly new speakers and replacing a 30 year old amplifier, I'd choose the latter, any day of the week. If you spend your cash on new speakers and then your A60 gives up the ghost, you could try to have it repaired and if that doesn't work where will you be? Sorry, just saying it as I see it... |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 768 Registered: Jan-05 | Mirage doesnt take my fancy, they look small and breakable! That metal driver and tweeter combination is sure to sound forward and bright, something I wont like. Frank, I didnt know that, I presumed that the visual state of the a60s components would speak for themselves. It looks like I'll have to give this a re-think. I've already made my mind up that I'm sticking with the speakers and seeing what MA have to offer in a couple months. But perhaps a new amplifier would be a smart choice and give that little extra umph! Time will tell, maybe ill replace both when money gives way. Marantz PM 6003 may be an option here, I liked the 6002 for its musicality but not for its slightly bloated bass. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 770 Registered: Jan-05 | I took the chance with some mint condition Kef Q60s. Paying for them on the 15th (off to a festival soon and currently stuck in the house looking after sis til I got to the festival). Should get the speakers a week or so after. Man I cant wait, 8" drivers! Tradeoff is they're in black wood! I'll let my current amp have a try at them and if its a no go I'll save for a new amp. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 771 Registered: Jan-05 | A sample picture of one I found on the internet (pics seller took were a bit shoddy). http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WeC7--3HfTI/Sj1XmIhbyDI/AAAAAAAAAKw/8Fgbr587jLI/s1600- h/IMG_2472.JPG |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 12876 Registered: Dec-04 | A rear firing port is going to be difficult, JJ. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 772 Registered: Jan-05 | It has a front firing port! The driver and tweeter are are the top in a uni-q arrangement and the port is at the bottom! Its just an unusual pattern around the port. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3682 Registered: Sep-04 | The A60 should cope with the KEFs quite easily. They're not difficult to drive. I hope you like them. Surprised you went for them of course... |
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Silver Member Username: KbearCanada Post Number: 152 Registered: Dec-06 | You guys were talking about Mirage. I've heard a lot of different speakers over the last two years. For all the comparisons made between different models by audiophiles, I have found that almost all of them are excellent. Different presentations of course but I can get enjoyment out of just about all of them. I think the myriad of hifi companies are all capable of producing great products over their entire line most of the time and perhaps differences in quality are exaggerated. Do you sense a "but" coming? Mirage was one of only two speakers that really stuck out to me as having bad sound. I listened to one of their tower speakers and found it to be very harsh. Must have something to do with their unique tweeter set up. Same thing with a pair of Paradigm Monitor towers. These are probably the only two speakers where right away I knew I hated the sound. Forward and bright speakers don't bother me per se, these two in particular just sounded very rough. |
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Silver Member Username: James_the_godLancaster, Lancashire England Post Number: 773 Registered: Jan-05 | "Surprised you went for them of course..." In what sense, just generally didnt expect such a move? My motivation was driven in that if i replaced the amp I would still be stuck with the problem of music sounding thin. So a larger cabinet and driver from a renouned range and company may do the trick with the budget I have. I'll let you know what I think in a few weeks when its set up and if your're lucky, maybe a pic or two! Dan, Im glad you confirmed my suspicions about Mirage! |
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Platinum Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 10126 Registered: Feb-05 | The latest two incarnations of the Paradigm Monitor series have very few highlights and a whole lot of downside. The Atom Monitor being the best of the series...still. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2621 Registered: Jun-07 | Atoms and 7's. Thank god I got my V3's and V4's.lol Good theater sound indeed. Not so much for music. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1278 Registered: Nov-06 | have to agree with Art once again... And with the Mirage speakers... I haven't heard the new stuff (aside from the OM Design bookshelf, which had a huge soundstage, but the KEF and Paradigm are more to my likeness) The towers I was talking about were called the OM series. Heard these about 5 years ago and loved the sound. Of course, they have been discontinued. I can't recall which one it was that I listened to. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 3692 Registered: Sep-04 | JJ Yes, just didn't expect such a move. Expected you to look at what we were talking about, go for a demo and actually listen to something before buying anything. Your reasoning makes sense to a certain extent. I just hope it proves to be the case. Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3365 Registered: May-05 | Gavin, Was it the tower in Tweeter in Crossgate Commons? I can't remember the model either, but that was a very good speaker. It was a bipolar speaker with an angled front baffle IIRC. I almost bought them, but they wouldn't have worked out in my room at the time. Maybe a blessing in disguise because they'd have been even worse in my current room. But in the right room, they were superb IMO. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1280 Registered: Nov-06 | yes it was stu! I used to go in there frequently. My current system is from Hippos. I am sure that is a familiar name as well :-). Great service and staff with fantastic brands to choose from. Even the wife will go there with me. I did a bit of Mirage related research this afternoon and think it was the OM 5. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3368 Registered: May-05 | It was the Mirage OM-9. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/mirage-om-9-speakers-6-2001.html I've been to Hippo's many times. My NAD 320BEE/523 CD player/PSB Image T55 system came from them,as did some other misc stuff. Very knowledgable and courteous people. My only criticism is that they don't have a very good 2 channel demo room anymore. That one room is too small, has too many speakers, and doesn't have a chair in it. The demo rooms have turned into home theater rooms. Not their fault, they're following the market. Their smartest move? Carrying Sony stuff. They advertise it a bit cheaper than Best Buy type places to get people in the door. Love it or hate it, it keeps their doors open, and people come in for Sony stuff and end up hearing real hifi stuff. Genius if you ask me. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2625 Registered: Jun-07 | That is Genius indeed. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1281 Registered: Nov-06 | yup! in that room they have B&W 802D with Mac gear. A far cry from Sony :-D For the most part, they have something for everybody there. Towne TV in Rotterdam is a Paradigm studio dealer. Not sure if you have ever been there. I was highly disheartened that they were driving them with Sony ES gear (why does everybody spooge over sony?). Even so, they had the Paradigm richness that I have come to love. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3388 Registered: May-05 | I haven't been to Towne TV, but have heard about what you're saying. The guy who used to run Clark Music was complaining about them. Appearently, a few people demoed Paradigm speakers in his shop, then went to Towne and got a low ball price, only to come back to Clark Music and ask them to beat the price. Towne was offering them for about 15% above cost to some people. Towne could afford to do that because they sell a bunch of other stuff like appliances. The guy at Clark called over and spoke to the manager who didn't know it was going on (supposedly). They stopped discounting them. I miss Clark Music. The guy running it was a great guy and got screwed over buy the owners. They wanted him to increase sales and marketing, yet didn't give him any money to advertise. How messed up is that? They finally gave up on the audio side of things and just sell pianos in a new shop. Too bad. |
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Gold Member Username: GavdawgAlbany, New York Post Number: 1282 Registered: Nov-06 | According to the clark website, they still sell hifi components (must be the site in 'Cuse). First time I went in there I was highly impressed. They had an awesome maggie setup with Mac components. I went to college at SUNY Oswego, and would venture down to Clark in 'Cuse. That was how I was first introduced to planar sound, and why I bought the MMG. I concur with the Towne TV price not being prudent. I made it obvious that I was just auditioning, and not in the market... but that if I liked them enough I might bite. I threw the card out with the price quote on it (it was for both the studio 20 and sig s1) but I do remember that it was $150 or so less than MSRP. I wouldn't say they stopped discounting them! They had a big sign with "closeout" on it with the v.5 or v.4 monitors on it, advertising the MSRP, and then in red what they were selling it for. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 3390 Registered: May-05 | You're correct, the Clark in 'Cuse still carries gear. The Albany area one (not sure where anymore)doesn't. |
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