Are parts just parts?

leo stierer Silver Member Username: Magfan USA Post Number: 545 Registered: Oct-07	Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 21:45 GMT Recently, in a thread which included some harsh comments by all concerning DIY I suggested that parts aint' parts and that a given design can be influence by part selection. Here is the link from Audioholics on that very subject. http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/the-loudspeaker-crossove r I haven't read the entire thing, or even part #1 yet, for that matter, but this should prove interesting to those intending to pursue a DIY path. NOTE: this does not apply to those doing 'kit' assembly since all choices, except which screwdriver to employ, have already been made for you.
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 14067 Registered: May-04	Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 00:19 GMT . Well, gee, Leo, you wouldn't want to use a #1 philips on a #2 screw! This DIY ain't for the faint of heart. Yes, parts matter, no secret there. Mounting of the parts matters and parts that you wouldn't think of as "parts" matter, especially after they start to heat up. There's nothing to debate about that article other than most of what's touched on is sort of generic information that a good designer can pick up without much trouble and once it's in their head it's unlikely to wander off. More important to some is the difference between similar parts designed and built by different manufacturers and their effect on sound quality. .
leo stierer Silver Member Username: Magfan USA Post Number: 546 Registered: Oct-07	Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 00:43 GMT Yes and yes. But if someone is new to DIY some of the choices can be daunting. This is where the kit comes from and from someone reputable, at that. Just an example. My panels use Iron core inductors. They gotta go if you believe this article, but for technical reasons, you may want to maintain the multiple x-over caps and use a bypass cap for low ESR. The combinations and variations are near limitless, even if you accept the Magnepan design.....
Jan Vigne Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 14069 Registered: May-04	Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 04:09 GMT . Don't get hung up on iron core L's. Their problem is saturation which occurs at high, constant current input. It's progressive and while it can be eliminated might not make much difference at typical SPL's if you were to spend the $$$ for air cores. Choosing another inductor might alter the resistance of the circuit which will drastically change the filter. Bypass caps on the low pass side are easily worth the money but possibly not worth the hassle of installation. The multiple caps are likely trying to achieve a consistent crossover function and have been used as trimming devices to some extent. The cost of good caps in the hi-pass side would have been minimal and the caps that are in there are probably more than good enough unless you want to get esoteric. Doing so risks inadvertently changing another value that has been calculated with the OEM caps in place. One of the worst things you can do is start changing parts without an idea of why the originals were selected. Often one component is chosen after determining another has "X" amount of R/C/L/ in its function. Changing internal cabling often presents large changes due to an upset in the resulting values of other inter-dependent components. Call Magnepan for their input. I'm sure they have ideas about modfying their products. .
Christopher Lee Gold Member Username: Touche6784 USA Post Number: 1371 Registered: Nov-04	Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 04:31 GMT Leo, I made my own crossovers for my MG-Ic pair. My network is infinite simpler as it is a first order crossover for both high and low and I think it sounds pretty good. Now compared to before I have no clue as I don't remember what it sounded like.
leo stierer Silver Member Username: Magfan USA Post Number: 548 Registered: Oct-07	Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 06:15 GMT Chris+Jan. I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel with my 1.6s since there are several other DIY type things to do before an all-new xover design. Maggies are a DIY dream speaker, since once the sock is removed you can easily access the xover as well as remove the speaker 'element' from the pressed wood frame. Several aftermarket stands are available, too. Most are unappealing to me, since they look like bridgework and the thought of attaching my speaker to the wall via an arm is likewise ugly to me. An Oak or Exotic Wood frame and stand is indicated. The schematic lists the DCR as well as the inductance value of the inductor. Going to the internet, I can easily design a 12, 13 or 14 ga copper aircore with the same values. Agreed about the saturation and current. Since the Maggies are acknowledged current hogs, this is also on the list. As for caps, Magnepan uses the French Solon cap, which is probably the entry level, at least cost wise, for a cap with hi-fi intent. If Magnepan spends 50$ / pair for caps, I'd be surprised. If you went NUTS you could easily spend a grand on Mundorf or other extreme hi end cap. The Clarity are mid-price cap and may be improvement at the same time. The new components take up lots more space than stock, so external crossover boxes are indicated. Most people remove the fuse at this time, as well as the nasty standard bi amp/wire jumpers. Magnepan is supposed to be pretty forthcoming and helpful. Why not? It seems to be part of the 'myth' and would seem to breed brand loyalty. There are probably others, but Maggies have there own site, the MUG which while covering all planars, clearly aims at the Maggie 'fan'. I was sold on these things 25+ years ago and haven't looked back. My bad? Could be, but other than setup issues; they are demanding of space and require a pretty buff amp, there are no regrets. There is a marketing possibility here. Make a 'Maggie Retro Kit'. Include new caps, inductor and all the wiring to install new crossovers. The level II kit would include frame and stands and the crossover enclosure. You provide new sock of whatever type you prefer. Exotic woods are extra. There are enough 1.6 and 3.6 now in circulation to make this work. There is already somebody who will provide this service for you, on a ship and return basis. AND there is a line!
leo stierer Silver Member Username: Magfan USA Post Number: 553 Registered: Oct-07	Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 21:44 GMT Here is someone with LOTS of time to test. Just an opinion, after all. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
Nuck Platinum Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 13717 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 14:46 GMT http://www.wiseacre-gardens.com/sound/bugs_minute.wav
Nuck Platinum Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 13720 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 15:32 GMT Go nuts Leo. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/8353-apogee-scintilla-amp.html

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