Harmon Kardon overheating - shutting off

Derek M New member Username: Rekster Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-09	Posted on Monday, January 05, 2009 - 03:41 GMT This is very similar to Ben's post with a subject of 'Denon on Fire' but I have a different setup and wanted to get some opinions. I have a Harmon Kardon AVR 220 receiver and am using Cerwin Vega E315 speakers for the front L/R, a Cerwin Vega E75C for a center channel, and for rears a pair of JVC SP 393s (used to be my main speakers from many years ago). I'm finding the Harmon Kardon is getting extremely hot, to the point that it will shut itself off because of the extreme overheating. To get by in the meantime I have a fan pointed on it to cool it down while in use. It seems worse when used for a long period of time or the worst when turned up very loud for playing music. As a note, I used to have smaller Cerwin Vegas (E312 instead of E315) and there wasn't as much of a problem. So I'm assuming from reading replies in the other post that the speakers are putting too much strain on the receiver, so I'm looking for opinions on the best route to go from here. Should i consider upgrading the receiver or is there a better solution (and less costly one). I use it only for processing audio since all video and source switching is going through my tv itself with a digital audio out to the receiver. These E315 speakers are amazing for music, and because of their huge bass I don't even use a subwoofer. Does this have anything to do with this receiver being high current going through some meaty speakers? Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions are all welcome! Thanks.
shawnboy Silver Member Username: Shawnharman Post Number: 197 Registered: Dec-05	Posted on Monday, January 05, 2009 - 18:21 GMT Derek, the speakers aren't putting to much strain on the receiver, you are. make sure your receiver has plenty of ventilation, I would recommend about 8 inches of clearance, a fan being pointed at the receiver isn't going to help it much, hold back on the volume a little and it should be fine.
George Silver Member Username: Soundgame Richmond Hill Toronto ..., Ontario Canada Post Number: 518 Registered: Jun-08	Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 01:55 GMT Receiver arn't built for heavy duty party volumes. For abuse like that you need some commercial gear or some old school power amp that go loud but sound like crap. Either that or get your wallet out and buy a Bryston.
Derek M New member Username: Rekster Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-09	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 00:23 GMT Wow, I came here expecting some intelligent advice and instead got some arrogant condescending remarks about 'turning it down' and 'abuse'. I have nothing else to add here, can a moderator just close this thread please. Thanks.
George Silver Member Username: Soundgame Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 527 Registered: Jun-08	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 01:38 GMT Derek, don't mean to come by as harsh or not willing to help but you could leverage the other thread with the guy that has the Denon receiver. Let me share some places to look at: Check that all the speakers you have hooked up are a nominal 8-ohms. If any are less than a nominal 8-ohms your AVR needs to be able to drive a lower ohm load. I don't have the specs on you HK AVR so take a look at the manual or call HK and ask if it's designed to drive speakers with a resistance under 8-ohms. If it can, you may need to flip a switch on the back or adjust an internal menu setting to allow it to drive the lower ohm speakers. This will most likely result in the power output being dropped. If all the speakers are 8-ohms; you have good ventilation (8 inches above) and a couple inches to the sides and back; you have good wire (16-guage or lower) and all the speakers are hooked up correctly with +ve and -ve leads correct then you AVR should be able to drive your speakers to reasonable volumes without shutting down. If it still shuts down then you've got a problem with the AVR itself or with some type of shorting in the speakers. Try going through this and let us know where you get to.
Derek M New member Username: Rekster Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-09	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 02:35 GMT Ya sorry George, I get a bit touchy sometimes. I just got the impression I was being looked at as some kid trying to blow up speakers. I do like it loud sometimes but I appreciate clarity and quality as well. I will verify all your suggestions, and report back but I just wanted to make a note in the meantime. The volume range displayed on the receiver is from -80dB to +4dB. I'm finding to hear everything nice and clear in a movie I need to push it to about -14dB (is this high?). For music I can push it to -10dB, or sometimes -5dB which is very loud but not completely outrageous. This is all near the higher range of the receiver, so I can understand if this is what's causing my problems. What I wonder though is if these speakers are overly demanding as well. I'm not that up with the technical details of home audio, but these speakers are rated @ 300W and the receiver is putting out I believe 55w per channel. If this doesn't mean anything, then feel free to clarify, I'm only here to get some suggestions. I'll verify the specs for ohms etc and get back to you. Thanks.
George Silver Member Username: Soundgame Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 530 Registered: Jun-08	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 13:11 GMT Hey Derek, I don't know HK volume settings that well but my AVR is an Onkyo and once I run the calibration on it with the supplied microphone, reference level is 0 on the dial and my volume range is from -80 to +18. I'm guessing that reference level on the HK once calibrated would be 0 but that's only a guess...you may need to Google it or check the manual. An AVR should be able to run a reference level with no problem provided there are no other issues with wires, short circuits or demanding speakers. The wattage on your speakers has no bearing on how hard the amplifier works, it's the resistance they provide in ohms that matters and the resistance curve (which is hard to come by). Start with verifying that all speakers are 8 ohms, if they are then go to the next points I mentioned. Cheers, G
OneCall Bronze Member Username: Onecall Spokane, WA Post Number: 23 Registered: Dec-08	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 17:17 GMT Hi Derek, I think George is correct, double check your ventilation and speaker cables. Your AVR220 should be able to power your speakers without a problem. Question: Does your receiver shut down when you listen in stereo with only the two front speakers playing at a higher volume level or only when all the speakers playing? With the HK receiver they're "Reference" level is -15db on their volume scale for the "EzSet" auto calibration. Your receiver also has an individual channel level adjustment which is what the "EzSet" system adjusts, but those levels can be manually adjusted as well. The scale for the speaker channel adjustment, if memory serves correctly is from -10 to +10 with a default setting of 0. Check these levels for your Left and Right main speakers, if they are set at or close to +10 and you crank the volume to -10 or -5 you are essentially running the receiver at nearly full volume which is ok for a short time period, but can take a toll over extended periods. I understand that you aren't intentionally running it too hard but that seems to be what is happening. With my HK AVR7200 at home I normally have the volume set anywhere from -30 to -15 when listening to music or watching movies. However there is a distinct difference between your setup and mine. Your Cerwin Vega speakers have a sensitivity of 102db, power handling of 400w and a 15 inch woofer in each speaker (according to their brochure). While your receiver should and can power the speakers without a problem yours seems like a case where you could definitely benefit from more power to the speakers. While your current receiver most likely performs reasonably well with your speakers, I would guess that at the higher volume levels you may start to hear some distortion in the sound because the receiver is under powered for your main speakers. I would venture a guess that if you double or even triple the power to your E315 speakers you'd think you bought new speakers from the increase in clarity and detail even at moderate volume levels. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should run out and buy a new receiver or anything, but there would be benefits. I hope this helps, and let me know if you have any questions. Matt P Merchanding Specialist Matt.P@OneCall.com
Nuck Platinum Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 11399 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 18:55 GMT Derek, those speakers play tremendously loud with little power. Something is wrong here.
shawnboy Silver Member Username: Shawnharman Post Number: 200 Registered: Dec-05	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 23:31 GMT Derek, I own a harman/kardon, and mine goes from -80 to +10 I run mine around -35 for music, and im running a vintage pair of pioneer speakers. and that volume is really loud for me, I have the harman kardon avr-145.
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1967 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 23:36 GMT What's the nominal impedance rating on the CV's? Irregardless, the H/K should be able to drive them no problem. Like Nuck said, something is wrong here, either with the speakers or the receiver. Do you have another set of speakers you can hook up and run them at the same approximate volume?
Faisal usman New member Username: Faysalusman Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-09	Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 10:29 GMT Hi Derek, There is a simple solution to your problem since i had the same problem with my AVR (different model). If you are noticing that your avr is getting too hot and then going into protect mode you need to upgrade your AVR firmware. I am not sure if your model has a usb port at the back pannel but in case it does the upgrade process is very simple. All you need to do is find the firmware upgrade from HK official website or send them an email (from their website) to let u know about it. In case u are in US or UK simply call the nearest HK office or reseller or customer center. Before upgrading my avr it was hard to believe this story from an HK official but when i tried it it worked. The reason behind is the cooling fan within your HK is not functioning properly and once u upgrade, it will work fine. Your HK will stay cool and will not go into auto protect mode. chill and enjoy ur HK be careful in the upgrade process and do it with the instructions available on HK site. do not use any other model upgrade firmware otherwise your HK can get damage. Also select your model upgrade with the correct voltage selection. In my case it was 230V. If you are in US it will be 110V-120V. ps. apart from firmware upgrade, ensure that your speaker wires are joint less and are are connected properly +ve and -ve. Also ensure that the voltage supply is stable and all your speakers are 8ohm. (HK AVR recommends 8ohms speakers only).
Derek M New member Username: Rekster Post Number: 4 Registered: Jan-09	Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 12:59 GMT I have not responded in quite a while and I wanted to let everyone know I truly appreciate their advice. I know you aren't being paid to try and help me so I wanted to say thank you, which I'm sure not enough people say. To answer George and OneCalls suggestions: I set the reference levels, using the microphone built into the remote and it seems ok except for the back speakers which it seems to try and crank up excessively to the +10. These aren't tiny speakers either so I'm not sure why it's setting them so high, but not a problem though I manually changed things after the fact. I am using high gauge speaker cable, not cheap crap so that part should be eliminated. I do notice though, I hear that all too familiar hum through my speakers, which I can't seem to pinpoint yet. Faisal - I appreciate your recommendation and I will check into it. For some reason though I recall my unit just had some giant heatsinks and did not have an internal fan even so I'm not sure if this could be the problem. I will check on firmwares just in case as well though. Thanks. I am moving in a week, and I will have a new room to set up so I will let you all know how things work out there. I am moving the unit to a glass shelf below my tv as well which has no constrictions to avoid the potential for not enough circulation. Hopefully rewiring, re-setting up everything I will eliminate the hum as well. (Hum is usually caused by grounding issues, right?) I will write back in a few weeks hopefully. Thanks again for all your help.
Nuck Platinum Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 11764 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 18:03 GMT Derek, hum is usually a ground issue, but not always. Good luck with the move, see how things round out in a new listening space. Cheer
Faisal usman New member Username: Faysalusman Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-09	Posted on Friday, March 13, 2009 - 04:21 GMT Hi Derek, I was not comfortable with my HK overheating since i got it brand new just two months ago so i decided to give my input here and the word can spread. I seriously think that HK either should have their service centers in all countries or should have their web site updated for such issues. As far as your question is concerned, I think all HK AVR are high current devices producing heat so there has to be a fan inside in addition to the large heatsinks to keep the avr cool. The fan is located in the center of your AVR at the end of the long heatsink tunnel. U can find it with a flash light by looking inside your avr at the backside of the ventilation duct/area. Previously i did not hear any fan motor sound coming from the avr however, after the firm upgrade i could clearly hear the slight buzz coming from the fan motor which is keeping the avr cool. The fan automatically turns on and off according to the new firmware settings to control such devices within the avr.
Nuck Platinum Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 11777 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 19:06 GMT I am surprised at the HK using a fan. None of my (older) hk's had any issues. Is hk going to be just another POS? Fans suck.
Derek M New member Username: Rekster Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-09	Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 02:22 GMT Ok, I figured I'd end off this thread now with my conclusions. In my new location I can no longer use an entertainment unit so my receiver is now on a glass shelf under the tv. So, it will be getting much more circulation and I haven't had any problems... YET. However the main reason I wanted to get back to everyone is I found the reason for the hum. After extensive troubleshooting, I found a capacitor bulging inside the receiver. It made sense since the hum started when I first turned the receiver on, and then slowly went away. I'm no expert in electronics and it was actually a coworker that suggested I take a visual of the capacitors. I bought a replacement capacitor for $2, soldered it in and the hum is gone and the receiver is working like a champ. I'm starting to wonder if the capacitor was causing the overheating problems as well in the first place. Eventually the capacitor would have gotten worse and either the hum would have been loud and constant or the receiver would have stopped functioning. For most, they would have probably thrown it out. Hard to believe it only took a $2 capacitor to fix it. (and as for the mentioning of fans, this HK unit does not have any fans inside, just extensive heatsinks. Fans fail eventually so if they went to a fan solution on newer units, that wasn't very smart of them) Again, thanks everyone for your great input, I do appreciate it. And if anyone else gets that hum (not a constant hum - one that slowly fades away) open the unit and look for tops of capacitors that are bulging, you may be surprised!
David Mitchell Gold Member Username: Dmitchell Ottawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2473 Registered: Feb-07	Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 14:23 GMT That's cool that you were able to fix it Derek. Thanks for the update.

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