Given the choice...
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2027 Registered: Feb-07 | Would you choose a McIntosh MC272 or MC252? From what I can recall they're about the same price. Of course this will be a purely subjective thread... |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 599 Registered: Jun-08 | All I can say is oooouch.  Sorry, Dave. Can't help you on the choice but oooh what a choice. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2031 Registered: Feb-07 | It's almost 100 lbs George. Weld one of those to each end of an iron bar and you have a pretty good (and expensive) bench press. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8793 Registered: Feb-05 | Perhaps you can post the question over at Audiogon and you'll get real advice...lol! You guys know me I'd choose Naim and use a string of blue christmas lights for ambience. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2035 Registered: Feb-07 | I'd do that Art, but someone would offer to sell me an amp. I can definitely fit the string of christmas lights in the budget. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 518 Registered: Dec-07 | David, I assume you are referring to the MC275. No MC272 that I know of. You pose an interesting question. I like components with mass, and almost anything made by Mac fits that criterion. If you can pick up an amp or a CD player with one hand, I don't want anything to do with it. If your question is hypothetical only  , I'd choose depending on the other components since the amps are quite different in terms of power. With the tubes on the MC275, speaker selection will much more important. Not only sensitivity, but the impedence plot becomes much more important with the valves. The MC252 can probably drive anything you care to hook up to it. Were I going to use speakers that were an easy load for the amplifier, I would not worry in the least about the MC275 with substantially less power. 75 WPC is plenty. I run my ProAcs easily with a 50 WPC amp and rarely go beyond 11 o'clock, but I am not playing rock at 100 dbA either. OTOH, if I wanted the freedom to choose from a much wider variety of speakers in the future, and still be able to peel the paint off the walls during parties, I may opt for the MC252. Of course, I would put a tubed preamp in front of either one. [I really hope for your sake this is not a hypothetical question--LOL.] |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13321 Registered: May-04 | . I have no recollection of a MC272, so I'll also assume you mean a MC275. Mac tubes are not as picky about load as most transformer coupled amplifiers. And a 275 should put out an easy 90-100 watts that can be bridged into about 175-200 watts. Going to the solid state amp won't gain you much in the way of volume but you will gain the Power Guard circuitry. What sort of maintenance do you want? You'll have to replace output tubes every now and again. Otherwise, Mac is Mac but tubes are tubes and transistors are not. . |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1734 Registered: May-06 | My tubed Rogue Audio Magnum 99 works very well with my MC-7300. Neil's response is excellent. Even 40 watts from tubes would be plenty of power for a lot of speakers. Other speakers do well with more power, like my Gallo's for instance. While they are easy to drive, I normally do not go over 30 wpc on the meters, having the power available is never a bad thing. While the will sound very similar you may find one's presentation more to your liking over the other. Audiogon could make this less subjective for you... http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ele/991753225.html http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1236613371&/McIntosh-MC2500-powe r-amplifie http://www.roger-russell.com/amplif2.htm#mc2500 |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 520 Registered: Dec-07 | Mac tubes are not as picky about load as most transformer coupled amplifiers. And a 275 should put out an easy 90-100 watts that can be bridged into about 175-200 watts. Going to the solid state amp won't gain you much in the way of volume but you will gain the Power Guard circuitry. OK, admittedly these are good watts, but there are some speakers out there that are very power hungry. And two MC275s bridged is quite different (and twice as expensive) than the straight amp:amp comparison I was responding to. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2036 Registered: Feb-07 | Thanks for all the good info guys. Yes, my bad - I meant the M275. Neil, what you said about tubes coincides what my dealer said when talking to him about the 275. He basically said not to let the "low" wattage rating turn me away - tube watts are different than SS watts. Sadly at this point the question is mostly hypothetical, although I am on the upgrade path now. Just trying to figure out which direction to go. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13322 Registered: May-04 | . "OK, admittedly these are good watts, but there are some speakers out there that are very power hungry. And two MC275s bridged is quite different (and twice as expensive) than the straight amp:amp comparison I was responding to." I have never been convinced why there should be speakers that require more than a few watts to sound good. The more difficult a speaker becomes to drive, the less efficient it becomes and 99% of the power put into the speaker terminals goes up in the air as heat. No one hs convinced me that a fair amount of signal doesn't go with it. Stick to efficient speakers and make you and your amplifier happy. Other than a few rare exceptions, that is where I reside in audio after five decades in the hobby. The Mac tube sound does not change when it is bridged to be more powerful. It is obviously more expensive to buy two amplifiers but it is one more bit of information you should have if you get to the point of making the decision between amps. It is then also twice as expensive to retube. I would still opt for the monoblocks if we are in purely speculative mode. " ... tube watts are different than SS watts." Yes, they are and no, they are not. Watts is watts. Tubes do not deliver instantaneous high current or high current over a sustained time period in situations where transistors are more appropriate. This goes back to which speaker will you choose, one that demands the amplifier jump through hoops and be capable of arc welding or one that plays music. If you already have the speakers in place, you may have put yourself in a position where the tubes are not an appropriate choice. If the amp precedes the speaker selection or you have chosen more efficient speakers, then you are free to choose which amp does the best job and watts can be more similar. Tubes clip differently than transistors and many people will tell you tubes sound "twice as powerful" as tarnsistors. This largely BS and would really only matter if you are the type who regularly and constantly clips their amplifier. The ss Mac has their PowerGuard circuit included, this makes the transistor amp impossible to get into hard clipping. It will sound more like the tube amp at the point the clipping initiates. The tube amp will eventually clip beyond listenable limits, though, given an efficient speaker, that will be at a very high SPL. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11488 Registered: Dec-04 | Agreed on both counts. I prefer the ss Mac over the tubes for a couple of reasons. The ss amps have generally more power, and more headroom for heavy spikes. The tube amps are more forgiving, and depending on the tube compliment (and the age of the tubes), will distort in a most oddly satisfying fashion (not that Jan would run such, hehe). I have more to do with ss, and Mikes amp is a killer. Now to find a deal like he got... Must sell a few spares here first... The speaker load is the key. We likely all know that tube amps, even transformer output models, work the very best on stable loads. David, If you were to pursue a tube amp, your speakers would not make the amp happy (I think). Change for a nickel. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2038 Registered: Feb-07 | Which speakers do you mean Nuck? The Sttafs or the RS6's |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2040 Registered: Feb-07 | So get this... I was casually mentioning in passing to my wife my upgrade path for my 2 channel system to possibly include a used McIntosh. So she says "I think you should buy a new one". Yowzah. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2041 Registered: Feb-07 | The thing that makes me partial to SS (besides all the good reasons presented here) is that fact I often don't have a lot of time for listening to music - an hour here, and half hour there. I can't often really commit to an extended listening session to let the tubes warm up. Unless I leave them on all the time. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 524 Registered: Dec-07 | How to Operate the MC275 Power On and Off Press the POWER switch to the ON position and sound will be heard from the Loudspeakers when the tubes have reached their operating temperature. The amount of time it takes is dependent upon the temperature of the Tubes. Press the POWER Switch to the Off position to stop amplifying the audio signal. This sounded to me like the "off" position was a standby position. My Cary takes 3 minutes to warm up from "off", about 10 minutes from "unplugged". However, reading further I see that the ON/OFF switch turns off all AC power. So, you are right, they would definitely take a few minues to warm up. David, you've got me salivating, man. Cut it out--LOL. |
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Silver Member Username: Jazzman71Phoenix, AZ USA Post Number: 525 Registered: Dec-07 | The Mac tube sound does not change when it is bridged to be more powerful. It is obviously more expensive to buy two amplifiers but it is one more bit of information you should have if you get to the point of making the decision between amps. It is then also twice as expensive to retube. I would still opt for the monoblocks if we are in purely speculative mode. As would I, Jan. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11501 Registered: Dec-04 | David, if you are considering a Mac or either design, then you will likely have the thing forever. At some time you will have a chance to sit down and listen. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkbillyNova Scotia Canada Post Number: 487 Registered: Jul-07 | DM, the warm up time just takes a little planning around. I call home and get either my wife or one of the kids to turn the amp on before I leave the office if I know I'll have some time to listen in the evening. Some things are worth the wait. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8799 Registered: Feb-05 | "So get this... I was casually mentioning in passing to my wife my upgrade path for my 2 channel system to possibly include a used McIntosh. So she says "I think you should buy a new one"." You're a lucky man David. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2044 Registered: Feb-07 | I am indeed Art. Now I just have to figure out a way to scrape together the funds. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2333 Registered: Jun-07 | David, by any chance can you have your wife talk to my wife?lol You know, talk some sense into her? lol. If you were to sell the dozen power amps you have now you can probably scrap up half of the funds for a new Mac. lol Just food for though. Cherio!!lol |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2045 Registered: Feb-07 | Sure man. You guys home tonight? I'll have her call your wife tonight, lol. That's the plan Nick. I already sold my Rotel yesterday. Gonna streamline my HT and sell off most of my amps (I have too many anyway). I'm keeping the 3B, though. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2334 Registered: Jun-07 | Nice. You have the very first Gen 3B right? You keeping the Power Pac's? How about speakers?Rotel pre amp?lol I am full of questions today. Its always good to have a lot of stuff you can sell, streamlining systems always means your system will improve. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2046 Registered: Feb-07 | Yup. My 3B is ancient, but I really like it, so it stays. It's still driving my Ascends in my HT. Selling the Power Pacs. As awesome as they are, the system where they are (my 2 channel) will be where the Mc goes (if I do follow through - I may chicken out, lol). Keeping the Rotel integrated, it's in my office now and doing fine duty driving my Paragigm Studio 20s. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2336 Registered: Jun-07 | Your 3b is sweet. What a change in sound your going to have. Going from Bryston to Mac. Totally different ends of the sound spectrum. I wonder how the brand new Bryston amps would sound. I heard two 28b's/bp26/Arcam CDP on a pair of B&W 802d's and it was incredible. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 602 Registered: Jun-08 | Dave, Just got back from the DR and caught up on this thread. You KILL me guy...a wife that "getz" the addiction and enables it. WOW! Mc, Mc, Mc. Keep rolling with it Dave. Bryston has go great attack, it's stength is in how tight it sounds and how much kick it provides. McIntosh, from what I've heard is absolutely smooth, full bodied and provides huge soundstage. I would say Bryston to McIntosh is like comparing bourbon with scotch.. Haven't heard the new Bryston's but there are some sweet deals around on the SST but stick with the McIntosh Dave, you'll never look back. Where's your source for used McIntosh? |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2354 Registered: Jun-07 | I would say the new Bryston stuff compared to the new Mc stuff is like comparing different styles of Scotch.lol. The latest offerings from Bryston (such as the 28bsst) are as easily as good as anything McIntosh makes, just totally different ends of the spectrum. |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 603 Registered: Jun-08 | I think you're right Nick, I'm just overzealous with encouraging Dave to keep moving with it. So would the Bryston be the peaty scotch? LOL. |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 2355 Registered: Jun-07 | lol Who knows George. I got some 15 year old Highland Park on tap at the bar right now.lol Isn't one of the 28bsst's like 14 grand for one? It only does one channel, but imagine 1000 watts RMS into 8ohms of Bryston power. W A H!!! The same could go for any McIntosh.lol. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2072 Registered: Feb-07 | How was the vacation George? My source for Mc is my local dealer. I was in there last week talking to one of the guys. The price on the MC252 is steep, man. 6k (before frequent buyer discount). Ouch. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11531 Registered: Dec-04 | I think Mike W shopped to death and got his Mc7300 amp in the 2500US$ hood. Shipped nicely. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2073 Registered: Feb-07 | New? |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1746 Registered: May-06 | New, it was made in 1995, that says something about the value. The MC-7300's were going for around $2250-2500 when I was looking. The one I had was just service, receipt proof provided by the buyer. Audiogon Completed Transactions McIntosh MC-7300 Record Closed 08-10-07 Started 08-10-07 Seller Dapilati Total $1700.00 |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11552 Registered: Dec-04 | THATS value!!! |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11553 Registered: Dec-04 | http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/115906-mcintosh_mc352_power_amp/ |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1754 Registered: May-06 | DM, link above, that would be value too! Depending on a series of other things to factor in.... |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2075 Registered: Feb-07 | I saw that. It would definitely be worth the drive to Toronto... |
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Silver Member Username: SoundgameRichmond Hill Toronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 604 Registered: Jun-08 | Dave, the DR was great. Awesome weather, beautiful beach and resort. Good food and drink. The whole family enjoyed. I would go back again, for sure. That amp seems like a great deal. If I had the cash handy, I'd be all over that amp, already. If you make the trip to Toronto to pick it up, we should meet up. |
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Gold Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 2079 Registered: Feb-07 | Glad to hear you had a good trip buddy. I won't be back T.O. way until next spring but when I head back it would definitely be cool to drop in and see you! |
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