This is my first post, but certainly not my first visit to the forums. Over the past several months I've found this site to be an exceptional source of information regarding the brands I'm most interested in. My thanks to all who have shared their experience in pursuit of this wonderful, sometimes confounding, hobby.
My dilemma is this: Over the last couple of years I've accumulated a lot of budget equipment without really building a system that is truly satisfying. But about six months ago I purchased a pair of Dynaudio Audience 42s and felt for the first time in a long time that I was actually getting closer to building a system that I could enjoy without feeling that I had compromised in some way. The problem is, despite having a lot of equipment on hand, nothing seems to be quite right for them.
I'm hoping that I might be able to find out two things: 1)What might be the best partnering gear out the gear I have (what to keep), and 2)What would be the next logical step for upgrading.
My current gear is as follows:
INTEGRATED AMPS NAD C352 Rotel RA-02 Jolida 102b Linn Classik Rotel RA 930 MKII
CD PLAYERS NAD 585 universal player Rotel RCD-02 Rotel RCD-965LE
Wow, looking at this I wonder if this shouldn't serve as a cautionary tale. Among what's not listed are a host of other amps and CD players that have come and gone. Some I suspect would be really good with the Dyns, such as a Naim Nait 5i.
Well, as painful as that was, I look forward to hearing your advice. I know it's a lot to ask from my first post. In return, I'll be happy to share my impressions of any of the gear I've listed.
Looks like you tried alot of gear with your Dyns. What is it that you like and don't like about the combinations you have available to you. This info will help everyone understand what you are looking to achieve.
That's a great question, but a difficult one to answer. Some are just clear mismatches, such as the Jolida 102b. I enjoy that amp with the Rega R1s and found it, to my surprise, to be a very nice match with the Wharfedale 8.1s, as well. Although the Jolida boogies with those two, with the Dyns, there's just not enough power there. Dynamics suffer, the soundstage collapses, and the treble gets a little strident.
The pairing of the Rotel RA-02 and RCD-02 is a decent match with the Dyns. I like Rotel's presentation, which I find a little more finer edged and sparkling than the NAD. I'm tempted to call it more transparent, but that's not quite right. More detailed, perhaps, or better, I find that it brings details into stronger relief. More "immediate" would probably be it.
Immediacy is a quality I really like. I've used the Jolida 102b and a little Almarro with a pair of Omega's speakers with the 4" Fostex and I found that sound, at its best, to be rather addictive. Unfortunately it wasn't well suited for a lot of what I listen to. It was hopeless with orchestral music.
As an aside, that's what led me to the Dynaudios. I've been a lifelong lover of classical music, but two years ago I started going to see the National Symphony on a regular basis. That started me on a search for a small speaker that does scale reasonably well.
The final pairing, and probably the best of the bunch, has been the NAD 352 and 585. The soundstage opens up, I'm getting a nice sense of depth. Images have a little more weight and size. Perhaps they're a little diffuse, but I like how a guitar sounds like its coming from something that has a little size, a little mass. Something that is resonating.
The downside with the NAD combo is that although it's pretty good with acoustic instruments, voices can sound a little threadbare. The bass is often muddled, and the immediacy and vibrancy of the Rotel is lost. Also, there's not much drive there. None of the wonderful ebb and flow that I here in the best systems. It can be, well, boring.
Hope that helps. Some of this was a stretch, not having listened to some of these combos in a few months.
Hey Chris. I hate to just throw a brand out there, but I read that a great pairing the DynAudio stuff is the Arcam brand. The Arcam brand kind of does what Rotel and NAD do well, Better, and then tames the things Rotel and NAD do poorly. Its a great middle of the two, but in most cases sounds better than both. May be worth a shot.
Frank- You have experience with Dyns don't you? How do you think they would fair with Arcam. Or any other brands you can have Chris audition?
I thought something from Arcam might be worth a shot. I had a pretty nice audition a few years back with an A65+ and a pair of Focal Chorus 705 and 706 speakers. I can't remember the source, but the combo was very refined, especially for the price.
Can you go back to where you bought the Dynaudio's and test their demo pair with various gear? I would suggest an amp with more power than you currently employ as a starting point. Not that you have to run it at rock concert levels but a good amp such as an Arcam, Bryston, McIntosh, etc. with higher power makes lower level listening much more enjoyable IMO. Have you tried tube amplification? I think they could be a natural for the music you most enjoy and could sound most "lifelike" for you.
I bought the 42s online based on an audition of the 40s a few years back. There's a dealer in my area, in Bethesda, that carries Dynaudio, but they only stock the more expensive models. They offered to let me audition the 42Ws but I'm not sure that would be quite the same.
The good news is that the dealer does carry Bryston and McIinosh. The McIntosh is probably out of my price range, but a B60 might be a little closer, and it was one I already had in mind, thinking that it might have more grunt/current to handle the Dyns.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I liked the Arcam gear but found it to be a little bland. Of course, that was just an entry-level model. I'm curious if one of the FMJ models might offer a different presentation.
Finally, I do love tubes and have gone through most of the Jolida line, over the years. Before the 102b, and unfortunately before I had the Dyns, I was using a 502b. I've got a hunch that it might be a good pairing.
I was hoping to hear from some 42 owners. For all the good reviews the speaker has had over the years, I'm surprised I don't here them mentioned more often.
Hey Chris. Probably the most recommended speakers from a lot of guys is the 52. That might undercut the 42 owners a bit.
I have never heard a 52 sound really 'bad', and I have heard them sound very good indeed. I think the 52 just sold a lot, maybe the 42 not as widely? Where do they really shine? The 52's, I found to be very strong in the midbass to lower bass, 110 and down, very easy to listen to. I didnt listen to the 42's enough, probably.
I'd considered the 52s, and you may very well be right that they're the better all-rounder. The problem for me is that they're a bit too large for my setup. I've tried to keep my speakers as discrete as possible. Also, I would've been forced to buy a new set of stands.
It seems that a more powerful amp is in order. After Mark's question regarding what I liked and disliked about the different amps I have on hand, I went back and listened to the Rotel. It doesn't sound terrible, but it does seem to be out of its depth with the Dyns. They sound a little too busy and lightweight. The bit of foundation, of order, that the NAD 352, or even the Linn, provides is gone.
A dealer around here sells Dynaudio. In the way of amps he carries Primare, Rega, and Sim Audio. These might be brands to look into. If you want something with immediacy and excitement, I believe that is one thing Rega is known for.
I used to sell 42s. Trust me when I say that 42s outsold 52s by quite a margin. The 52s require a more capable setup than the 42s to sound good. 42s always seem to be ready to party.
I have used 42s successfully with all kinds of unlikely systems. Although they appreciate power, they're not so difficult to drive that the partnering equipment has to be out of this world. Also, their impedance deviates very little from 4 ohms through the frequency range which means they offer a very stable load to an amplifier (good thing).
I remember getting good results with things like Rega's Brio (that's the minimum) or Mira, Naim's Nait5i, Cyrus's 6 and 7 amps, Rotel's 1062 - any number of amplifiers.
Since they are pretty good (but not amazingly so) at resolution, I also found that they reflected source improvements and made source choices really quite important. So, classic combinations would be the Rega Planet into Rega or Naim amp into the Dyn42s. That was a classic or typical system which we sold quite a few of since it seemed a natural balance with the 42.
Now Chris, what did you think of the Linn Classik into the 42s (preferably with Naim cable)? I always thought this was a really nice reasonably priced combination. It did nothing wrong and a lot right.
The above comments are all assuming the following:
1. The 42s had decent medium mass stands under them (we used Partington Super Dreadnoughts).
2. The 42s were spaced relatively closely (less than 6ft), aiming directly into the room with no toe-in and dead level using a spirit level.
Funny you should mention the Linn because after going through my equipment again in earnest, I think that it might be the best of the bunch, if not exactly what I'm looking for. I do wish the combo had a little more snap.
I originally purchased the Linn Classik to drive the Rega R1s after a lengthy audition between it and an Apollo/Mira 3 combo. I thought that the Rega combination was clearly more refined in the treble and offered a little more drive, but it was a compromise I was willing to make given the added convenience of the Classik. I was really strapped for space at the time and it doesn't get much more compact than the Classik.
With the Classik I've been using a pair of K20 cables I had made up with the special BFA plugs. I'm sure dyed in the wool Linn fans would say that it's just fine, but I've always wondered if I couldn't do better.
As for stands, I have the Dyns on a pair of 28-inch Plateau stands. They were once Plateau's top of the line and when the three pillars are filled with sand, they're pretty massive, but not as stable as others I've had. I also have a pair of Linn Katan stands for the Rega R1s. Athough they seem to be more rigid, they're definitely not as substantial.
If I can get my partnering gear squared away, a new pair of stands will definitely be on the list. I'm familiar with the Partington stands, but I'm not sure if we have an importer here in the United States. I once spoke to someone at the Sound Organisation (the importer for Rega) and he did mention that they might be picking them up. I'll have to check back.
Ah, I have some interesting things to note and for you to try methinks.
Regarding the Classik as a solution...
1. Ensure the connection of the Classik is to a wall outlet and NOT to a surge protected power bar. That kills the life of the thing.
2. Not a fan of K20. Although warm, it lacks articulation in the bass (or snap) as well as anything in the high treble. Naim cable improves the bass no end in my view, but I guess this is not easy to get a hold of and not cheap at £11/m. You could try some mains flex you might find cheap at a hardware store and that'll give you an idea of what I'm talking about, but Naim cable's where it's t in this combination, that or Chord Odyssey (major cash £21/m).
3. Your Plateau stands are really too high for the speakers if you sit in a typical sofa (couch). The midpoint between the centres of the speakers should be at ear level when you're sitting comfortably. As an example, try turning the 42s upside down on those stands (I know, I know). If it improves the treble response, I'm not talking rubbish and other stands are worth a look.
3. Substantial is not always best! You can kill the sound of 42s by having too much mass in the stand (easy to do). I suggest you try them with the stands just half full as a starter for ten. You may find it improves bass articulation and treble openness. Also, I suspect that the Katan stands may be a better match. Not completely sure but worth trying. The Katan stands use a different principle of operation in order to transmit vibration to the floor (light'n'rigid vs mass sink). You may find that they give the 42s some much needed lift and a bit of that snap you're missing. The bass won't be as deep but still plenty enough in my experience.
On the subject of other things you've tried, an all Rega combination seemed to over-egg the pudding a little, so Apollo/Mira is a more successful combination with the R1s, R3s or Totem Dreamcatchers or Mites for example. The killer combination for a bit more cash is the Apollo/Nait5i (linked with Chord Cobra3 or Naim interconnect and Naim speaker cable), but this is appreciably more expensive where you are I suspect.
I'm not sure that spending money is really the right thing to do at this point. You have lots of bits, each which gives different results but none which seem to serve you well enough. Perhaps selling some of those bits which don't work with the 42s and sticking the cash in a HiFi jar might be the way forward. Certainly, it'd help a lot if you could find local dealers who can help you at the level you're at. It's no help to look at McIntosh when the entry fee is several grand, although you can also look at the 2nd hand market for the quality brands. Quality brands such as McIntosh, Audio Research and Bryston take aftermarket service very seriously and can be bought with far more confidence than the usual fare from the Far East. Things to think about...
Thanks so much for the advice. It was just what I needed to hear.
I've hooked up the Linn Classik to a Naim-recommended Wiremold power strip and taken out the one that had surge suppression. The benefits were clear.
Also, I called my local Naim dealer and asked about getting a pair of NACA5 with the appropriate BFA connectors for the Linn, but it looks like its going to cost me. Although Naim North America lists NACA5 at $20 per stereo foot unterminated, I'm being quoted $42 per stereo foot for terminated cable. That's starting to get up there and is causing some hesitation. I was expecting something closer to $250 U.S. for an 8-foot pair.
As for stands, any thoughts on the dedicated Dynaudio stands? The Stand 1 is running $300/pair here, but I'm wondering if I would see any improvement over my Linn stands.
All in all, these are good problems to have. The Linn/Dynaudio combo should hold me over until I'm ready to take a step up.
$20pf? Whaaaaaat? $250 for an 8ft pair would be a bit more than we'd charge here, even with my amazing super-dooper make-up skills and Linn BFAs, but of course transport costs are so high nowadays it doesn't make sense to order from abroad.
Don't change the K20, or try the mains flex idea ($20 all-in), but do mess around with the stands. Also ensure they're setup as I described earlier with no toe-in and not too widely spaced (<6ft).
