What can kill a tweeter (and how do I test for it)?
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New member Username: Mor10Post Number: 5 Registered: Jun-08 | I have a set of PSB speakers that have been working great for 5 years. Then all of a sudden this summer the treble on one side started dying. It happened over a couple of weeks and finally it was all dead. I tried swapping the speaker cables and swapped the tweeter between cabinets to nail down the problem and it became apparent that it was indeed the tweeter that had died. completely. So I buy a new one ($70) from PSB and install it. Problem is in my testing I had swapped the speakers around so now the speaker with the working tweeter was on the same channel the speaker with the busted tweeter used to be on. When I installed the new tweeter I immediately noticed that the old and working tweeter was starting to display the same symptoms. And now, two weeks later, it's pretty much dead as well. I'm thinking that this is not a manufacturing problem with the tweeters but a problem with my amp. Problem is I don't know what would cause a tweeter to burn out or how to test for it. I'm guessing it has something to do with too much power being pushed into the speaker but I'd rather not start messing around with anything until I have a better idea of what I'm doing. So, what kills a tweeter? And how do I test for it? |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnWisconsin Post Number: 915 Registered: Dec-06 | What kind of amp are you using, Morten? And how much of the volume knob are you using? |
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New member Username: Mor10Post Number: 6 Registered: Jun-08 | it's a Yamaha RX-396 and it usually hovers between 40 and 20 - I don't like to blast music. It's never been past the half way point. |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1588 Registered: May-06 | Sylvester the Cat is probably responsible. To test for this, drop some catnip on the floor and see it gets picked up. |
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New member Username: Mor10Post Number: 7 Registered: Jun-08 | clever  |
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Gold Member Username: Mike3Wylie, Tx USA Post Number: 1590 Registered: May-06 | Sorry, couldn't help myself. I think you recognized that both tweeter's died on the same channel, after the first one went, you swapped your speakers over. Do you bi-wire? If so there may be a short in the wires going to the top binding posts on that side. |
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New member Username: Mor10Post Number: 8 Registered: Jun-08 | I don't bi-wire - the speakers only have a single set of inputs. but your other assumption is still correct. I'm guessing it's the amp. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11179 Registered: Dec-04 | Mort, unless you can keep on feeding it tweeters to be certain, it seems to be the amp. Good source of replacements? where to service the amp and have a recap/refurb? I have done the tweeters and crossovers in my PSB Stratus Silver speakers, and I have spare parts. I popped an XO with a receiver, isnce repaired with ne 25w ceramics instead of the foil resistors in the XO's, they work fine. I also trded out the metal domes for the soft domes from the 800 series, which made them more reasonable in a smaller space. I have run the metal domes at field parties. These speakers can really go with good power, so I have to suspect you amp again. Probably cranked pretty good when working right. Dude, sell ya mine... |
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New member Username: Mor10Post Number: 9 Registered: Jun-08 | Nuck: I actually don't run them that hot. which is why it's so confusing. If I was blasting music I wouldn't be surprised at all, but I live in an apartment building with paper walls so the volume never goes beyond "reasonable". It's very frustrating. I don't want to buy a seccond new tweeter only to have it fry because my amp is bust. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11180 Registered: Dec-04 | Tough call Mort. Maybe try a changeout of tweeters from partswxpress or something? Have you a meter handy? DIYaudio has a good bunch of helpers. Are you speakers t45's? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 8257 Registered: Feb-05 | If you can afford it, it's not that tough a call. Switch out the tweeters and get a new amp. The NAD C325BEE is a steal right now for $299 almost everywhere as it's been discontinued. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2210 Registered: Oct-04 | http://www.jr.com/harman-kardon/pe/HK_3490/?JRSource=RealNY |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11189 Registered: Dec-04 | You are suggesing solutions to Mort's problem that were not needed. Mort, upgrading the XO's is easy an cheap. Every PSB is weak in the XO. |
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Gold Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY United States Post Number: 2212 Registered: Oct-04 | Weak XO's = Weak sales, or at least it should. |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11190 Registered: Dec-04 | Agreed CM, but this is an easy fix. Grain of salt and all that. The Psb's were pretty heavily abused... and now they will stand up to anything, and I mean that. Just mercilusssly pound the speakers, they do not care. |
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New member Username: Mor10Post Number: 10 Registered: Jun-08 | OK now I'm confused: are you saying that the crossovers (I'm assuming that's what "XO" stands for) in the speaker cabs are killing the tweeters? |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11204 Registered: Dec-04 | Naww Mort, my crossovers succumed to a overly loud receiver. Thats what kills tweeters is a clipping power supply. My crossovers were an early victim in the frivolities, thankfully. Simply overpowering the drivers will kill them as well, but I have tried that on many occasions. All is good. |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Rattle your ... Missouri Post Number: 2938 Registered: Dec-06 | All I can think of is the amp oscillating or something and sending high frequencies to the speaker, stressing the tweeter to its death. |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Rattle your ... Missouri Post Number: 2939 Registered: Dec-06 | Death. I said DEATH. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mor10Post Number: 11 Registered: Jun-08 | More tragedy: I got a new tweeter and replaced the fried one. However with the new tweeter installed I discovered that the other speaker (which I stupidly had moved over to the channel where the busted tweeter used to be) was sounding muffled too. Argh. That was two months ago. Now the speaker on the left side (same side that the first tweeter died on) sounds like a telephone speaker. Moving it to the other channel makes no difference. I am not willing to hook the other functional speaker with the new tweeter up to this channel because I am pretty sure the culprit is the amp. so now what do I do. I have a pretty much dead left PSB and a Yamaha amp suspected of murder - all out of warranty. If I was still in Norway I would call Yamaha and demand they replace both the amp and the speaker or reimburse repairs, but customer rights are pretty much nonexistant here in Canada so I'm not sure that'll have any effect. On top of that the company I bought the gear from, A&B Sound, went belly up in mid 2008 so I can't go after them either. Anyone know how I can raise so much hell for Yamaha that they come and replace the stuff for me? I'm so furious I'm shaking! Went from having a great stereo to having something that sounds so bad it just makes me want to cry. @^@&#$*#% |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13299 Registered: May-04 | . "On top of that the company I bought the gear from, A&B Sound, went belly up in mid 2008 so I can't go after them either. Anyone know how I can raise so much hell for Yamaha that they come and replace the stuff for me? I'm so furious I'm shaking! Went from having a great stereo to having something that sounds so bad it just makes me want to cry. @^@&#$*#%" How getting a grip on reality? Stuff breaks. Compost happens. This!!! is the worst thing that could happen in your life? I found out at Xmas a good friend has stage four cancer. Her nine year old son doesn't understand. Hundreds of people died and hundreds more made widows and orphans in stupid wars across the globe. Thousands more went off to become cannon fodder in those wars. One was probably caused by nothing specific anyone did, possibly the greed and detachment from ethics of someone after more dollars for themself, while the other was caused by the arrogance and probably the greed of a few men who only care for more power and more money. Get GD receiver fixed or buy a new unit. Tell PSB about the tweeter and let them do what they will do. You came here for advice from a bunch of people on a forum. They gave advice that you ignored. If you suspected it was the amplifier and you were told it might be the amplifier and you did nothing, this is Yamaha's fault? This is AB Sounds fault and you can't go after them either?! Get over yourself. It's only a piece of hifi. . |
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Bronze Member Username: Mor10Post Number: 12 Registered: Jun-08 | I understand your sentiment Jan, though I think you are missing the point: Of course this is not the end of the world by any means. It is however quite costly and completely unnecessary. If you bought a tire for your car and it turned out a few years later that the tire, because of a manufacturer defect, was destroying the drive axel in your car, wouldn't you be pissed too? I started this thread because I couldn't figure out what was wrong. Now that I do it has become an issue of consumer rights: where do we go when the stuff we buy ends up destroying other stuff? And for your information I am heavily involved in trying to end the violence and unfairness throughout the world - I write letters to the editor, call in on shows, blog, talk to my local political reps etc. etc. to make people focus on humanity rather than greed. and my condolences to your friend with the hopes that things somehow turn out for the best. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13300 Registered: May-04 | . If I found out with certainty one thing caused another due to human failing, say, like a war or an intentionally defective part, then I would assess just what damage has been done and whether there is any fault that can be apportioned. Wars are hard to stop once they get started. Defective parts are typically caught and recalls are made. Did you register your receiver with Yamaha? In the end I would do what is appropriate for the damage incurred. You choose your battles wisely and not just to have someone to "go after". In this case you have no proof there was a design fault. You've only jumped to that conclusion because you apparently want someone to take some blame for the way things work and the way you ignore problems. You're living in the modern world, guy. Repairs get expensive when you ignore them. Stuff happens. Things break. Why do you suppose there are service departments? The warranty is expired so you've had this receiever for over two years during which time it seems to have worked fine. You had several weeks - going on months? - to do something about a problem you knew existed but you chose not to do anything and now you're looking to say the Yamaha had a manufacturing defect. There's no blame here, guy. Just move on with several lessons learned. How old are you, Morten? Really, how old? No insult, I'm just curious. . |
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Bronze Member Username: Mor10Post Number: 13 Registered: Jun-08 | Jan: When presented with the symptom of a broken speaker I did a rational assessment of possible causes and dealt with them. If you read this thread and other information around the web you'll see that speakers being killed by amps in this manner is fairly uncommon. In fact, I've talked to an audio engineer who told me that for something like this to happen there has to be a "serious flaw in the manufacturing", possibly some form of short circuit that has taken years to surface. Because the problem is so unusual and has taken so long to manifest it is reasonable to argue that finding the problem would and did take time. In fact I took the speaker to a guy I know who repairs speakers and he said he'd never seen anything like it. For your information he is 58 years old and has worked in the stereo repair business for well over 30 years. His statement: The problem has to come from somewhere outside of the speaker but I can't really think of anything that would cause it, especially only on one side. There is no blame here: A part is broken, that part caused another part to break and the people who made the broken part to begin with should fix both the original broken part and the parts broken by it. That's the way the world outside of North America works. Unfortunately consumer rights here in Canada and especially in the US seems to be "you have the right to consume" and nothing else. I assume from your question you consider me young and naive. I can understand where you are coming from and so should you: I'm from Norway. We have some of the toughest consumer rights laws in the world: If you buy something that should reasonably last for 5 years then the manufacturer is on the hook for that product for 5 years regardless of what the warranty says. And if your product malfunctions and in turn breaks some other product, the manufacturer is on the hook for that as well. These laws were put in place to protect the consumer from companies who prey on them by making inferior products with deliberate failure dates. For this reason Apple has been locked up (and lost) in court over everything from failing iPods to iTunes DRM. The system works and the consumer is protected. I am appalled by the way consumers are treated in North America and I am doing my small part to try to change that. Simply saying "stuff breaks" and shrugging is precisely the reason why we don't have consumer rights here. people just take it rather than stand up for their rights. So, call your congress and senate representatives and tell them to stop sending weapons and "foreign aid" to a country that shows a complete disregard for civilian casualties and is imposing a new apartheid on their neighbors and read up on EU law on consumer rights. You'll see where I'm coming from and you'll understand what I'm trying to do. Oh, and to answer your question: I'm 30, I have a university degree in philosophy and computer science and I used to work in politics in Norway. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13301 Registered: May-04 | . "I assume from your question you consider me young and naive." You assume a lot of things. So far none of your assumptions are correct. "So, call your congress and senate representatives and tell them to stop sending weapons and "foreign aid" to a country that shows a complete disregard for civilian casualties and is imposing a new apartheid on their neighbors and read up on EU law on consumer rights." Where in the world did that come from? Look, you want to argue with me because I think you need to realize who might be responsible for this situation. If that's the way things are in Norway, I'll stay here. I have no need for this and therefore wish to all the luck when you take this to court with one guy who says this would have taken years to surface and the other guy who can't think of anything that would have caused it and then you tell the court you sat on your butt for months while this receiver fried tweeters. . |
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New member Username: Barry_njGSP Exit 165, New Jersey Post Number: 8 Registered: Jan-09 | Well I ignored a bunch of the posts because they seemed to go off on a tangent. So if it was already mentioned I apologize. I doubt that the amp is at fault. It's likely bad by-pass capacitors in the speaker cross-overs not doing their jobs, there by passing bass frequencies that will quickly fry a tweeter. Good luck with it. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13307 Registered: May-04 | . Well, BC, it's a sure bet you won't be getting a ticket to Norway so you can testify on Morten's behalf. Dang, and Norway's so nice in January! . |
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Bronze Member Username: Barry_njGSP Exit 165, New Jersey Post Number: 15 Registered: Jan-09 | I meant no offense to anyone Jan, I just didn't really understand where the posts were going, so I stopped reading. Reading a little deeper now I think I see what happened, and I'm sorry about your friend, but I think your recent pain caused you to over react to MR's overly dramatic description of his little problem. I do understand your pain. About 18 months ago cancer took my dad with only about 8 weeks of notice. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mor10Post Number: 14 Registered: Jun-08 | The whole reason for starting this thread was that I didn't want to throw money out the window on something I could fix myself. I figured people in this board would know more than me and provide some useful input. And they did. so now I'm packing up the whole kit and taking it to Speaker City to see if they can figure out what's going on. Please don't take this the wrong way Jan, but lashing out at me because you think I'm stupid doesn't help you or me in any way. it just makes me pissed off. I sympathize with you and what you are going through but that doesn't give you the right to ridicule me and derail my attempt at getting to the bottom of a problem. There are support groups and forums out there that deal with grief and loss. I suggest you go to one of them and talk to other people who can identify with your pain and help you move on. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13309 Registered: May-04 | . Morten, I did not "lash out" at you. You assume I think you are stupid. So many of your assumptions are wrong. You are pissed off at the response you got on a forum and you were shaking you were so mad at the receiver situation. There are support groups and forums out there that deal with these problems. I suggest you learn to deal with your anger issues. . |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 13310 Registered: May-04 | . "Reading a little deeper now I think I see what happened, and I'm sorry about your friend, but I think your recent pain caused you to over react to MR's overly dramatic description of his little problem. I do understand your pain." My friend is a good friend but not a dear friend. I'm sorry to hear about your father (I lost my parents almost twenty years ago) but I can tell you I am not in constant pain over this situation. It is another of life's moments that remind you of the importance of all those things that truly matter. I will loose a friend. Her son will loose a parent. Her family will loose someone their care about with an unequalled love. Life goes on. For some of us it will be made more difficult than for others. IMO I did not over-react to Morten. My reaction to Morten is summed up here, "you sat on your butt for months while this receiver fried tweeters." The capper is here, " I didn't want to throw money out the window on something I could fix myself." People come here looking for someone who will tell them how to fix their electronics without spending money. If we can, we will do that for them. In most cases, the answer is "take it to a shop and don't stick your hands in anything". In this case Morten received several suggestions that would very likely have remedied his situation. Your suggestion of a bad cap is one of them - I suspect a cap shouldn't become defective in five years time but, as I said, things break and need repair - but all of the suggestions were ignored by Morten. Now he's looking to blame someone else for his inaction and unwillingness to spend money. He wants someone to "go after". Morten makes lots of assumptions. At no time did he assume this might be an issue that required him to do anything to resolve the issue even when he was told several possible things to do. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with Morten over this, but he needs to stop making less than intelligent assumptions and deal with his problems. As I see it, he has several to work on. . |
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Platinum Member Username: NuckPost Number: 11459 Registered: Dec-04 | North American consumes have been bred on ultra cheap and ultra available good for so long that they all expect a quality product at a conservative pric. Life aint like that. Maybe Bang and Olufson, or Bose, back up their goods very well due to such idealistic circumstances but in reality, there are so many variables in products as to not market to Norway, by the sounds of it. How many major brands market there? |
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