Is there an inherent difference between digital vs. analog output levels?
The reason being, I've almost exclusively listened to my DV7600 player using its analog outs, but I also have it hooked up using the coax digital outs, and have notice a rather substantial output boost when listening through the digital outs. This can't be a simple issue of the player's DAC vs. the receiver's DAC, can it?
It can be Chris,most DVD/SACD players under about $1500 mark,their analog outputs arent of very good qaulity,the digital domains are the prime focus,unlike CDP's where its about the analog outputs and balanced outputs.If you have a big redbook collection get you a good CDP,and dont look back.
It is Chris. Tawaun is right, DVD players focus mainly on building the unit with good Digital sources. As a dedicated cd player will always have better analogue. Or better of both connections. My Apollo is louder when using the analogue. I havn't even tried it on the Digital connection.lol.
Nick, How would you know if it's louder if you "haven't even tried it on the Digital connection"? If you can test between the two to see if there is an actual output difference in the Apollo, I'd appreciate it.
Jim, I'm using it exclusively in 2-ch.
I'm simply trying to see if this is an across the board fact.
CM, I did not notice this in the last swap that I made, from analog to pre, as compared to digital to DAC to pre. But thats another piece in the middle... If the receiver has a different input sensitivity to different inputs, then that would be the same outcome.
If the dvd's DAC results in a higher output voltage than digital signal to the outboard DAC, then the same result.
If anyone else cares to perform this little experiment and report back, that would be useful, but I would expect the dig.out to be louder across the board.
Chris- I did not find that the digital out is louder at all. Actually the opposite. With my old NAD Cd player, the Analogue out was a large amount louder, and much nicer sounding. Also, even on my older NAD DVD player. The Analogue out was also louder. I just tried this on my Apollo last night for kicks while my buddy was over and again, the Analogue out is louder, more open, better separation. Overall a much nicer sound. The only source I have that I have not tried this on would be my Blu Ray player. Cheers.
You seem like a nice guy, CM, I never thought you need sensitivity training.
Those values seem typical, but never altruist. Input sensitivity is fine, until you reach the max input voltage, which will overload the input and shut 'er down. One poster here a week back was facing that. Not all componants are agreeable, and voltage/sensitivity are very important, as increased voltage approaching max input will put the input on very touchy volume control, among other things.
For goodness sake never plug a digital output into an analogue input. You will get a very nasty sound and very likely break the speakers. Digital signals are distinctly nasty when reproduced as analogue output.
Why use analogue outputs on a CD player? Well, simple really - jitter. S/PDIF suffers from significant amounts of jitter distortion which it's believed contributes a great deal to CD's lack of timing ability. It's one reason why so many DACs attempt to reclock the input signal and remove the jitter distortion. In theory it should make a DAC transport-agnostic. In practice, different transports still sound different.
Why is going via the receiver louder? This depends in part on the design of the DAC - different DAcs have different output voltages. Same as a preamp having different gain. The Chord QBD76, for example, has an output of 3V. Most line level devices are designed for a 2 - 2.5V output. This makes the Chord seem loud, and makes it more difficult to play quietly. Not sure why Chord elected to do this - it's annoying. Fact is, most DACs act as small power amps at the output stage and the gain can be whatever the designer decides.
I agree with Nick K, It's the opposite...I'm using 2 player of the same make Marantz CD63 SE, one used direct to preamp (analog out) and the other cd63 used as transport connected to Benchmark DAC1, whenever I switch from CD to using the DAC+transport, I usually have to adjust the volume on the pre to get to the same level where I left using analog out
I'm almost embarrassed to admit this, but it seems that what I was noticing was not an output issue at all, but rather the fact that I had the "Source Direct" mode switched off when listening through the player analog outs. In fact, I could notice almost no difference at all between either output when all things were equal.
Yes it is a good topic and one that bounced around on this forum for some time. Even if the digital output made it louder, it would not necessarilly sound better - in such a case it would depend on the dac's in both the CD/DVD player and the reciever as to which sounded better.
To say "why would anyone use analogue" well, I think Frank answered that quite correctly. However, when the only available amp is a receiver, the answer reverts back to the paragraph above.
I must remember to test this with my DV9500 and the SR7002. I have used both, but only on video movies and quite frankly I can't remember the outcome. I'll try a CD (which on the 9500 sounds okay, but nowhere as good as the Naim) and report back if my memory holds. Could be unlikely though :-)