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CR Unregistered guest | Some time ago I purchased a Yamaha rx-v1200 receiver and Mirage frx-7 front speakers with matching center and surrounds. Also a great Velodyne Sub. Music on both Satellite music stations and CD's has a hard sound. Music on DVD movies sounds fine, as does the rest of the movie soundtrack. I tried analog and digital connections on both my Onkyo DV sp-501 DVD player and H/K FL8400 CD player, also adjusting tone and sound paramaters on the Yamaha. Did not Work. An entry level Pioneer Elite surround receiver a friend had sounded even brighter. Is there a reasonably priced way to add warmth to this music system? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | The components you purchased have a reputation for being a bit crisp! You can, if you don't want to purchase new gear, try to tame the reflections that are in your room that add to the problem. What you hear from your system is 80% the room and its reflections and absorptions. This is the most effective way to solve your problem. If you would like to pursue this path, decribe your room to me, with speaker placement, its furnishings, size and shape and where you sit in relation to the speakers and I will try to help. |
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CR Unregistered guest | Thanks for the reply. My wife will not go along with any changes to furniture or speaker placement. Anyway....the room is 16'x 18' with a cathedral ceiling and opens to the dining room. Floors are tile. There are 2 chairs, a couch and 3 ottomans. I sit 9 feet from the front speakers, center speaker is same distance above the TV, and rear speakers are on each side of where I sit. A window on the left side of the room has cloth shears and a cloth valance. Alternatively, if I were to look at gear changes, I would consider used gear in the future. If this is the only viable option, what would you suggest and do you know of any reputable sources for used gear? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | From your basic description you have placed this system in a very, very lively room. I am envisioning nothing but hard, reflective surfaces. This is a recipe for overly bright, hard, aggressive sound no matter what you put in this room as far as equipment goes. I would suggest you either make changes to the room or find a different room in the house to place the system in. One of the first lessons anyone should learn about audio is that you hear the room more than the components. With thirty years of audio sales as a reference I will tell you that you are fighting a loosing battle in that room. You can try other components but you will never get really good sound in a room that has that many reflective surfaces in it. There are lots of ggod sites for use gear. Start with www.audioclassics.com. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 361 Registered: Dec-03 | i agree with j. vigne that your room is the culprit. if not anything else you could try an experiment and if it works might be able to show the wife and see if she agrees you need to do something. try putting rugs down on as much floor space as you can and listen again.it might be that simple. (some strategically placed rugs) if that doesn't do the job you need more radical moves. but hey if it works you might be able to show her some nice patterns. lol |
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CR Unregistered guest | While the room may not be optimum, I had the same problem when I first purchased the surround sound system and had wall to wall carpeting in the whole house. The tile came later. The system I sold before buying my surround sound system was a Luxman LV105 integrated amp and Energy 22.1 speakers. It sounded warm and lush (carpeting at the time). I don't expect the Yamaha to sound like the Luxman, but I would like music sources in addition to DVD movies to sound reasonably warm. I can buy 2 mono tube pre amps for about $200 at musiciansfriend.com, but don't know if they would help. I appreciate your input and would like to hear any other ideas you may have. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 379 Registered: Dec-03 | well the reciever you purchased yamaha is known for being bright. i don't know about your speakers. as i said before a few rugs should help but also if your speakers are biwireable you could try a 1 to 3 ohm resistor on the tweeter input to tame the highs. they have quality crossover grade resistors at partsexpress.com "mills 12w wirewound" that very well could do the trick. or like you mentioned going with a different tube type preamp. if your considering different recievers their are a few known for being warmer.some of them would be. harmon kardon/pioneer elite/marantz and nad with probably the elite and the hk being the warmest. hope that is some help! |
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CR Unregistered guest | That helps, my speakes are already biwired. I called parts express and asked how to install the resistors. They said not to try it if I had to ask. Is it really that difficult to install correctly? If not, how do you recommend installing? Thanks again for your time. |
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Unregistered guest | CR, If the tweeter is the source of the "brightness" (it could be the upper mid's), one of the resident experts at audioreview.com offered this simple solution - worth a try: tape and drape a piece of tissue (kleenex) over the tweeter housing. I tried this with my old Infinity's and it helped tame the tweeter. Costs you nothing so give it a shot. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 389 Registered: Dec-03 | no it is very simple. (this is all on the back of the speaker not inside) ok if your speakers are allready biwired just put say a 2ohm resister on the positive input to the tweeter and then connect the positve speaker wire lead that would normally be going to the tweeter to the other end of the resistor leaving the negative connection just like it was. so basically the resistor is in series with the positive lead of the tweeter.that's it. now if your speakers are biwireable meaning you can biwire them but haven't yet and the connector is being used to connect the highs with the lows you will need to remove the connector on the tweeter positive side and run a wire from the positive of lower positive in through the resistor then you can connect it to the tweeter positve input. "that is if you run the wires from the reciever to the lower input of the biwire set on your speakers"if not do it that way.again leaving the negative alone. i hope i explained that easy enough! it might take some experimentation to get it to sound just right for you but it should work. i would buy probably 1 to 4 ohm resistors 2 of each. "1 for each side" that should give you anything you need.and cost about $30 for all of them. |
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CR Unregistered guest | I'll try the tissue trick later tonight when the room is free. Kegger, I'm a little lost on the resistor installation. My speakers are currently biwired. The positive wire going to the tweeter is connected via bare wire to a screw down connection on the speaker. When you said put a resistor on the positive input, did you mean put one end into the screw down connection on the back of the speaker? Does it need to be soldered? How do I connect the other end of the resistor to the positive speaker wire? Wrap the wire around the resistor and solder? OK, maybe I'm more than a little lost. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 390 Registered: Dec-03 | you said everything exactly correct. but i wouldn't solder until you know which resistor your going to use finally. just wrap the wire around the resistor as securely as you can. and you don't need to solder the end going into the speaker screwdown. basically all you are doing is sending the tweeter less signal by putting a resistor in series with it's input on the positive side.it's not a bid job. and it won't hurt anything the tweeter will just get less power to it.that's all. |
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Bronze Member Username: FletcherPost Number: 19 Registered: May-04 | That tissue over the tweeters thing actually worked. However, it's a really rough method, and you lose alot of clarity and range with the high end. I believe good warm speakers can be less bright without sacrificing clarity. Anyway, I'm quite happy since I prefer the muffled sound for now rather than my overly bright speakers. I would urge others to give it a try. Thanks JW. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 409 Registered: Dec-03 | well the resistor trick is basically tayloring the xover to your preference and should not have you sacrifice clarity."providing you use quality" the mills resistors are just as good if not better than most xovers have in them allready. just my 2cents on the adjustment deal. good luck with your system. |
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Unregistered guest | FS, You're welcome, compliments to the guy at audioreview. Sometimes, 1950's common sense still prevails in this gee whiz world. One note, run the tissue test for 3 weeks. After you get used to the "new sound", take the tissue off, put on your favorite CD and you will now be able to tell if it REALLY is an improvement - or not. I thought the whole thing sounded kind of stupid but, if it works, it works. |
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Bronze Member Username: SlimmerPost Number: 11 Registered: Mar-04 | JW, i used a black sock on my Boston VR950's. Much better! that has to be one of the best tips in ecoustics history. at least, i think so. THANKS! Rich |
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Unregistered guest | rk, Good to hear the sock worked for you. Who'd a thunk it? |