Legasy SW
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Bronze Member Username: Tasmanian_satellitePost Number: 31 Registered: Jun-07 | Can someone tell me what legacy Sw means and what is it's function. It's a Pansat 3500sd. Thanks | |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14702 Registered: Jan-06 | SW = switch..or sometimes its meant as software Legacy is a type of LNB |
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Silver Member Username: LuserPost Number: 123 Registered: Nov-07 | A legacy SW is a switch called sw21. It is origanaly used to combine 2 sats to one legacy DN receiver. Today it is usefull for fta espesially when combined with two diseqc switches dp34 switches if more than one receiver is used | |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14704 Registered: Jan-06 | There are MANY other SW switches, other than SW21.. | |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14705 Registered: Jan-06 | DP switches can only be used with Dish Pro (DP) LNB's, not legacy LNB's.. | |
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Bronze Member Username: Tasmanian_satellitePost Number: 32 Registered: Jun-07 | wow... thanks for the reply and knowledge from everyone | |
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Silver Member Username: LuserPost Number: 126 Registered: Nov-07 | I know they say that you can't run legacy with dp switches but often they are refering to dn subs/receivers. Are you sure its true for fta? | |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14707 Registered: Jan-06 | Definitely true for FTA... | |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14708 Registered: Jan-06 | All about Switches First there is a switch inside (almost) every LNBF, it is a Voltage Controlled Switch, this causes the LNBF to send out V polarity transponders or H polarity transponders, the voltage in the coax cable coming from the receiver is what switches this switch, 13volts = V transponders, 18volts = H transponders. This is why you can NOT simply add a splitter to run 2 receivers from 1 LNB port, only 1/2 the channels are ever on the cable at one time. There is one Voltage Controlled switch on a single output LNBF, there are two Voltage Controlled switches on a Dual LNBF. External switches There are only 2 main switches that work with most if not all FTA receivers and regular(legacy) LNBs they are: 22khz switch, connects 2 LNBs to one receiver DiSEqC 4x1 switch, connects up to 4 LNBs to one receiver. 22khz switches, these are really simple, they look like a splitter but are a simple ON or OFF switch, 0khz and 22khz are the 2 input ports then one out to receiver port, when you have 22khz OFF in your receiver the 0khz port is connected, when you have 22khz ON in your receiver the 22khz port is connected. This switch is for hooking up 2 LNBs to one receiver. The 22khz switch has big brother it is a DTV or 22khz 4x4 switch, this switch has 4 inputs to hook up 2 DUAL LNBs and can be hook to as many as 4 receivers. 2 inputs are labeled 13v,0khz & 18v,0khz (remember the LNBFs internal switch), and the other 2 inputs are 13v,22khz & 18v,22khz. This allows both polarities from each LNB to be inside the switch at all times, so any of the 4 receiver can access any polarity on either of the 2 LNBs. These switches also come in a 4x8 for up to 8 receiver hook ups to 2 satellites. DiSEqC is a pulse switch, it also uses a 22khz signal but it uses a one time pulse to set the DiSEq switch to 1 of 4 ports, these switches come in 2x1 and 4x1 models, for 2 LNBs to ONE receiver or 4 LNBs to ONE receiver, respectively, these can NOT be used for more than one receiver, you must use another DiSEq switch for second receiver. DiSEqC-1 or 2 or 3 or 4 in your menu will cause the DiSEqC switch to switch to that numbered port, some receivers use A, B, C, D instead of 1, 2, 3, 4. This "pulse" is only sent once, if the DiSEq switch is to far away from the receiver it can miss it and not change ports, some times toggling back and forth between channels can make the change happen, the pulse is repeated each time you change channels, but moving the switch closer to the receiver can improve its performance. DiSEqC = Digital Satellite Equipment Control, this was designed for FTA receivers. DiSEqC switches come in 2 main flavors, Committed(1.0) and Uncommitted(1.1), but also Committed 2-way(2.0) and UnCommitted 2-way(2.1). Committed(1.0) switches are the most common and are what come with the receivers. These switches require FACTORY software in your FTA to operate properly, 1.0 means your receiver can operate Committed switches ONLY, 1.1 means it can operate Committed AND UnCommitted switches, 1.2 means it can operate Committed and UnCommitted plus DiSEqC motor controls. 2.0 is the same as above, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 but the receiver can also receive information back from the switch, 2.0 switches receive the pulse command from the receiver, then change ports, they then send back a confirmation to the receiver, if a 2.0 receiver doesn't receive the confirmation it will send the DiSEqC pulse again and again until the switch confirms it is on the right port. Putting 2 DiSEqC Committed switches on one cable is a no-no, which is why there are Committed and UnCommitted types of switches, a Committed switch is placed first in line (DiSEqC pulse comes from the receiver so first would be closest to the receiver), then you can hookup an UnCommitted switch to the Committed switch, the Committed switch will ignore the UnCommitted switches commands. Committed 4x1 switches are about $20, UnCommitted 4x1 switches are about $80, so unless you have to have 16 LNBs hooked up to one receiver stick with Committed switches. There are no multiple receiver DiSEq switches for Legacy(regular) style LNBs 22khz switches and DiSEq switches can work well together, with one restriction, the 22khz switch must come AFTER the DiSEq switch. So you can hook one 22khz switch to two LNBs then hook the output of the 22khz switch to port 1 on the DiSEq switch. So instead of 4 LNBs you could have 5 LNBs hooked up, you can add a 22khz switch to each DiSEqC port for a total of 8 LNBs hooked up to one receiver. Dishnet Legacy switches, are designated by SW, like sw21 or sw64 these do not use true DiSEqC pulses so do not work well with FTA receivers. Legacy TWIN and QUAD LNBs have built-in SW switches so also do not work well with FTA receivers DishPro TWIN or QUAD LNBs, have an internal DiSEqC switch, so EACH port on the LNB has access to either of the 2 LNBs inside, 110 or 119, DiSEqC 1 = 119 and DiSEqC 2 = 110, these LNBs require a DP Channel List, if using a channel list instead of scans... DishPro external switches, there are 2 now, a DP34 and a DPP44, both of these use true DiSEqC pulses so will work with FTA receivers but you must use DP LNBs to take advantage of the multiple receiver aspect of this switch. (The DPPlus LNB does NOT work well with FTA receivers, it does not use true DiSEqC) If you hook up a standard(non-DP) LNB to a DP switch and more than one receiver you can only get 1 polarity at a time from that LNB. If you just have 1 receiver hooked up to it, it has been reported to work fine. I have not tested this. Multiple receiver switches If you are using standard(non-DP) LNBs you need 1 LNB port per receiver, it's that simple, if you have a Dual LNB it has 2 ports so you can hook up 2 receivers, if you want a 3rd receiver hooked up you need a 3rd LNB port. Single output(non-DP) LNBs can only ever be used with 1 receiver. But if you have a Dual LNB you can expand it to 4 or 8 or even 16 outputs. This is done with a Multi-switch, they come in 3x4, 3x8 and 2x16. You run 2 cables from the Dual LNB to the multi-switch you then have 4 LNB outputs(or 8 or 16), if you have 2 LNBs you want then you need 2 Multi-switches, one for each LNB. The 4x4 22khz switch is 2 multi-switches in one case, and you can use these along with DiSEq 4x1's to setup a multi-satellite multi-receiver system. C/Ku switch or 0/12v is a voltage controlled switch, most FTAs do not have this option but some do, these do not work from a coax cable signal as 22khz and DiSEqC do, they require 2 wires to the switch, the switch has 2 inputs and one output, at 0volts one port is connected at 12v the other port is connected. On the back of the receiver will be a GND(ground) and 12v(12volts) this is where the 2 wires to the switch are connected, and there will be an option in the menu for 0/12v ON or OFF |
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Gold Member Username: NydasPost Number: 9274 Registered: Jun-06 | A lot of FTA receivers rum on DP34. The main problem at times in the powering of DP 34, but otherwise there is no problem. LK has been informed of this about 40 times, but she refuses to go and find out or to test. |
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Bronze Member Username: Tasmanian_satellitePost Number: 33 Registered: Jun-07 | thanks again | |
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Silver Member Username: LuserPost Number: 130 Registered: Nov-07 | DP lnb's do not use voltage for changeing tp's and I have used successfully diseq4x1 with their internal diseq compatable switch using committed1 and committed2 in settings of mytheatre which they wouldn't have as an option if it wasn't possible. So how much more is BS. | |
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Gold Member Username: KirankumarNO Bashing Post Number: 2175 Registered: Oct-07 | very good info LK, my problem is that i have dp34 but the power adopters are so damn expensive,is there a cheaper adopter available? |
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Gold Member Username: NydasPost Number: 9275 Registered: Jun-06 | Use an old useless DN receiver and keep it on all the time. | |
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Silver Member Username: LuserPost Number: 132 Registered: Nov-07 | Dn receiver $10 buck offer $5 settle for $8 at your local swapmeet. | |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14709 Registered: Jan-06 | Understanding Legacy, Dishpro, and Dishpro plus LNBs and switching -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The term legacy refers to the first methods used to send satellite signals from the dish to the receiver. In the beginning DBS Satellites such as those used by both Dish Network and DirecTV only transmitted either odd or even transponders. Each transponders carries as many as 20 individual channels. A transponder is best thought of as a cluster of channels. When a transponder is broadcasted from the satellite each transponder needs a specific amount of clear frequency space on both sides of the main transponder frequency. This is called bandwidth. Any other signals transmitted with in that bandwidth space will interfere with the main signal. With DBS Satellite the frequency 12.224 GHz is Transponder 1. Transponder 3 is 12.253, TP 5 is 12.228, and so forth all the way to TP 31. Each transponder is separated by 29 Mhz(rounded off). Each Satellite Transponder needs .29 GHz or 29 MHz of bandwidth. Transponder 2 on DBS Satellites is 12.239 GHz, only about 15 MHz away from both transponders 1 and 3. To avoid interference between the Odd and Even transponders. Satellites broadcast the odd and even transponders in different polarities. They use either Left Hand Circular Polarization (LHCP) or Right Hand Circular Polarization (RHCP). Think of a cork screw twisting towards the left or the right. If a LNB is set to receive Left Hand Polarity, then it will not receiver the Right Hand Polarity signals. This isolation of signals allows for the simultaneous use of both odd and even transponders without interference between them. DBS Satellites use Left Hand Polarization for Even transponders and Right-Hand Polarization for odd transponders. To control the LNB for reception of either LHCP or RHCP, the receivers changed the voltage sent down the coax to the LNB. This is called voltage switching polarity. All Dish Network receivers use Voltage Switching Polarity when in legacy mode. Older "legacy" only receivers only work in this manner. The limitations of this method become obvious when you wish to distribute satellite signals from a dish/LNB to several receivers. You must run a cable from each receiver to the LNB. Early LNB's only had two ports. To expand the number of receivers, special switches are required. These switches have two cables connected to the LNB ports and up to 16 spots for receivers. These switches are most often called by their input/output abilities. 2 in, 4 out became a 2 by 4 switch. A 2 in, 8 out became 2 by 8 switch To accommodate the need for TV antenna signals, a third port is sometimes added. Using diplexors, an installer could use a single coax to carry both the satellite signal and local off-air channels from a roof top TV antenna. This third port changes the names of the switches to 3 by 4 switch. When Dish Network started using a satellite dish which received signals from two locations, such as the Dish 500, another type of switch was created. The 2 in 1 out (SW21), and the 4 in 2 out (SW42) switch allowed a DISH receiver to control a switch that selected either one of two satellites. Think of these multi-sat switches as electronically controlled A/B switches. Soon after, DISH released the legacy Twin 500 and the legacy Quad. This LNB's incorporated two LNB and internal switches, eleminated the need for external switches. The problem with using a Dish 500 with more than four receivers was the number of devices needed. Going beyond four receivers per dish came an exercise in the use of splitters, jumpers and more switches. Possible but not very pretty, and subject to increased signal loss. This meant short cable runs between all devices. A new method was needed to transfer the signals between satellite and receiver when using the Dish 500. The Dish Pro (DP) LNB was created. Based on band stacking technology but enhanced with internal multi-sat capabilities, the DP LNB takes the odd and even transponders and brings them both to the receiver at the same time. Instead of the receiver switching voltage to indicate which polarity was needed, the receiver had access to all transponders. This had two advantages and one disadvantage. The first advantage was the ability to split the signal to more then one receiver. If you had a need for 6 receivers to receive signals from one satellite, you could split the signal without the need of switches. The second advantage was the removal of the voltage switching polarity control. The receivers supply a steady 19 volts when in DP mode. This allows for longer cable runs without the worry of voltage drop off. The disadvantage was the use of a full 1000 MHz or 1 GHz of bandwidth. Coax cable which worked Ok for Legacy installations may not meet the needs of a DP installation. For multi-sat installations two coaxes are still required for signal distribution. One for 119 and the other for 110. The DP34 (3rd port for off-air) installed with two coaxes from the DP LNB and up to four receivers connected to the switch. The real neat thing are the two through ports. These ports can be used to supply signal to additional DP34 switches. Up to four cascaded switches are possible. Using a Single Dish 500, a series of DP34 switches and only two coaxes for trunk distribution, an installer could provide signal to 16 receivers for full access to both 119 and 110. The next issue facing Dish was their introduction of the dual tuner receiver. These receivers have two tuners which can provided individual service to two TVs. The DVR receivers, can also operate in a mode which provides two tuners to one TV. This allows the user to record two shows or record one show, while watching another. The only problem is you need two coaxes installed to the receiver. Many homes are pre-wired with only one coax to each location. This meant installing additional coax cables in homes where the home owner was not expecting the need for more cables. After all, they were told the house was a wired and ready. Most the time the house not wired properly, but that is another story. To help solve this problem, DISH developed the Dish Pro Plus (DPP) LNB. The DPP LNB has three connections. Two for receivers and another for mixing in signals from another dish. More later. The DPP receiver connections are unique in that they work on ALL dish receivers. Legacy and new models. The DPP LNB works just like a legacy LNB. It uses the 950Mhz - 1450Mhz (500 MHz bandwidth). It uses voltage switching polarity selection, but has another 500Mhz band at a higher frequency. This upper band is only accessible by a dual tuner receiver. The dual tuner receivers use the lower band for Tuner 2 and the upper band for Tuner 1. Each band can supply either odd or even transponders from either the 110 or 119 satellite. The third port connects to another dish installed with DP single satellite LNB. This dish is used for reception of additional DISH programming from satellites at 61.5, 129, or 148. |
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Gold Member Username: KirankumarNO Bashing Post Number: 2178 Registered: Oct-07 | i didnt know you could buy a dn receiver | |
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Gold Member Username: NydasPost Number: 9278 Registered: Jun-06 | FROM ANOTHER SITE. You need a DP lnb!! Legacy will not work with dp-34!! also DP-34 requires a bit of power!!! if you have a old DN sub should do the trick!! |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14712 Registered: Jan-06 | very easily...look in the newspaper, another FTA site (buy/sell section), flea market, garage sales, etc..tons for sale.. | |
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Gold Member Username: KirankumarNO Bashing Post Number: 2180 Registered: Oct-07 | thanks guys, you made my day |
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Bronze Member Username: Trendsetter369Post Number: 66 Registered: Dec-07 | LK and others, I have a question for you. I have Nfusion and a legally installed BEV connection[SW44] which is catering to 82W and 91W. My NFusion is not locking 82W whereas CS5K and SV1K are locking that.Any solution on this. I cannot change the switch since I am a tenent and getting a} line out of four as a courtesy. |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14726 Registered: Jan-06 | Most receivers are NOT SW44 friendly...coo*lsat is one of the few that is...I'm presuming U get NO TV...but if ya get 1 satellite but NOT the other, then recheck your receiver antenna settings.. | |
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Bronze Member Username: Trendsetter369Post Number: 67 Registered: Dec-07 | On my CS5K and SV 1K , I am getting 82 and 91 as both gets locked easily . That means Antenna setting is OK. The problem is Nfusion is not Locking 82W. If Nfusion is notSW44 friendly, then is it a software problem ? If so coders can address it ,I think. Does Antenna setting means changing Switch.If so which one. | |
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New member Username: PulpfiktionPost Number: 7 Registered: Mar-08 | GAYNATION HAS THE ANSWER.  |
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Silver Member Username: LuserPost Number: 134 Registered: Nov-07 | Pulp Fictious post #7 ? | |
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Silver Member Username: LuserPost Number: 135 Registered: Nov-07 | So basicly Legacy is sh@t,DPP is cr@p, and DP is the only one worth a d@mn. So what should I do with my 1000.2 DPP tripple,DDP twin and other assorted legacy twins and singles. Maybe I could take the platic boot off the 1000 put it on the 1000.2 with 2 DP twins hanging off each side and a single in the center for 5 sats. | |
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Gold Member Username: NydasPost Number: 9305 Registered: Jun-06 | Semore, what was that tirade for? | |
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Bronze Member Username: FattayPost Number: 41 Registered: Jan-07 | Do like I did, I found an old dp 500 lnb, and switched out the dpp 500 head on the 1000,replaced it with the dp head. Now you have all dp head/lnbs, and they work good for 110/119/129, and run them through my DP 34,and wa-la you have good times!! Or,I made a bracket that bolts on to your dish 500, holds lnb for 129,, and 91, (plus 110/119) and works great! Since you only have 3 lnb ports on your DP 34,,,you have to use a diseqc switch,,,AND,,,GREAT INFORmation LK,and thanks to all others that contribute info for this site. | |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14730 Registered: Jan-06 | Actually the Legacy, DP, and DPP lnb's, all work very well when used correctly..and are very simple to use.. If people did a little reading first, knew what they wanted, and bought the correct hardware, they wouldn't have any problems. |
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Gold Member Username: NydasPost Number: 9314 Registered: Jun-06 | "Actually the Legacy, DP, and DPP lnb's, all work very well when used correctly..and are very simple to use.. " Try mixing them and you will be on the roof for ever. |
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Bronze Member Username: Trendsetter369Post Number: 68 Registered: Dec-07 | Is it possible to lock 82W with SW44 with Nfusion as STB.Since I am facing this problem. I am told that Nfusion is not SW 44 Compatible[ the one legally installed by BEV. If so can this anomaly be corrected by way of a Bin? Please reply. |
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Silver Member Username: LuserPost Number: 139 Registered: Nov-07 | Yegerson Are you saying your getting 91-110-119-129 on one dish 500? |
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Bronze Member Username: FattayPost Number: 42 Registered: Jan-07 | Yes,go to flea-bay, and look up,Best bracket for dish 500,,Nalin,,,or someone here,ask about it,,so you may search here for the old thread.I know King replyed about thease brackets, I just looked at the 500 bracket ,,,and made my own,,and they work good,,and less dishes to fool with. I'm not good at c/p,,but someone here can referance to this thread . Thanks again to everyone who helps here. | |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14778 Registered: Jan-06 | 4 sats, 38 degrees apart on 1 small dish 500?...I'd like to see that.. | |
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Bronze Member Username: PulpfiktionPost Number: 28 Registered: Mar-08 | LK: U will not be able to see that, because yr mind refuses to see that. Yes, Nalin did post it in Ecoustics forum and I will try to find it, or he might see this thread and post. Here is another post, which LK can't ignore. "29. · MacAyayo says: December 1st, 2007 at 10:47 am Alan: this is a fantastic and extraordinary website. It is like science-fiction! My congrats! I am (brand) new in this hobby; I just got my 5-lnb Digiwave dish spaced for 82, 91, 101, 110 & 119, but with a 4×1 DiSEqC only. Joe said "...it has 101W on the arm ( no lnb mounted as there is no FTA here )...". .......BIG THANKS. Mac." |
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14788 Registered: Jan-06 | Pulp...U are dumber than I thought!....LMAO of courss a Digiwave 5 LNB dish will get 5 sats...but not a dish 500.. U and nalin co-incidentally have the same problem...co English comprehension... bye nalin.. |
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Bronze Member Username: PulpfiktionPost Number: 31 Registered: Mar-08 | LK - we all know you refuse to learn
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Platinum Member Username: LklivesPost Number: 14791 Registered: Jan-06 | U get dumber by the post!...LMAO OK , I had my laughs for the day ...going to the beach now..so pizz off!...LMAO |
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Bronze Member Username: PulpfiktionPost Number: 34 Registered: Mar-08 | You mean you are going back to another site to inform them about your new learning?? Great. |
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Silver Member Username: LuserPost Number: 143 Registered: Nov-07 | So does my sw21 switch that works with my legacy and Dish Pro not work with dish pro plus because of lack of power or just incompatable. |
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