Newbie speaker/receiver help
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New member Username: BgitterWest milford, Nj Usa Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-07 | I am setting up family room system, want to go with speakers for both video/audio type setup. I am considering a Pioneer vsx-84txsi receiver, and want to match up speakers that would fit well. I saw a few write-ups on the paradigm 330's with ultracube.Saw some nice Kef setups too but had some doubts about the tweeter location. Maybe these are too light for this newsgroup? room is 25'x20' 7' ceiling. I was thinking about $1500 for receiver and about $2000-2500 for speakers-will need 2 fronts, 2 surr/at least two rears because of the shape of room, and a good(relative) sub. I already have the sony in a box thing, and am looking to upgrade from that, although I cant afford the Macs and the Meridians. I just realized I can upload an image. I cant use wall speakers on the outside walls, which hopefully are clear, unless they are in wall, with some kind of soundproofing/anti-vibration system around them. Please notice the square oin the middle is a center post, just under 12" square. I greatly appreciate all of your help and suggestions. thanks bg  |
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Gold Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 1228 Registered: Dec-03 | brett: Let me suggest a different take on your system. First of all, please understand that each component has its own sound and some products do not work well together as a result. A case in point is the Pioneer Elite VSX-84 receiver with Paradigm speakers. The Pioneer elite, a very fine receiver in its own right, has a very warm laid back sound. Pioneer engineers have made it known that they are trying to capture a "tube-like" sound with their Elite line of receivers, and most agree that they have come close. Unfortunately, Paradigm speakers are also very warm and laid back sounding; hence, the overall system sounds very warm and fuzzy, without real good definition. Neither product is a bad product--they just don't blend well together. Now, if you want to stay with the Pioneer Elite receiver (just don't buy Pioneer--it is not nearly as good), I would suggest you investigate something with a brighter sound, such as Monitor Audio, Klipsch, or jmLabs/Focal line of speakers. They will make for a much better combo with that receiver. Conversely, if you are wedded to the Paradigm speakers (I figure it is because of their size), you should investigate a receiver with a more detailed, upfront sound, such as an Outlaw or an NAD. My one real reservation about Paradigms for your home is that Paradigm uses "dipole" speakers for the rears. Now, I have no qualms with dipoles, per se, but given the fact that your rear speakers will be so far behind the listeners, dipoles really aren't the best choice. Looking at your diagram, I had another idea. Have you thought of "in-ceiling" speakers for your rears? Inasmuch as you have your tv in the corner, it makes placement of your rear speakers somewhat problematic. since you have 7' ceilings (not too high), some good self-contained in ceiling speakers may be right for your situation. Here is a link for some very fine, reasonably priced in ceiling speakers from Monitor Audio that are self-contained (inside their own enclosure): http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/product.php?application=0&product=23 Don't know if you want to go this way, but I thought I might suggest it just incase you might be interested. While I think of it, here is a link for the Outlaw receiver, which you might not otherwise find: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/1070.html A very fine product. Outlaw sells internet only (no dealers) but they give a 30 day in home trial period and their customer service has been outstanding--Outlaw is highly respected by those of us on this board. Given the fact that you want a speaker that isn't real large, apparently, I would also suggest that you consider these speakers for your mains, along with its matching center speaker from Energy: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENRC10 These are small, but will image a whole lot better than those particular Paradigms. These could be matched with an Outlaw LFM-2 subwoofer: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm2.html This is a superb sub, and easily worth twice its price. |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 396 Registered: Nov-06 | A fine post hawk!!! I am in agreement. I went to post last night about the blending of speakers and amps/receivers, and it did not go through. |
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New member Username: BgitterWest milford, Nj Usa Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-07 | Hawk, Thanks fr the input. I am having an installer come in to measure distances and make some recommendations. Then I'll do some listening. I'm not really married to anything, receiver or speaker, but like the Pioneer Elite VSX-84 for its features. Its got a good rep and is expected to be a solid performer. So If I can start from there, I'll find speakers that fit. After speaking with a friend, he suggested to use some in-ceiling Kef's to substitute for lack of walls for the l/r surround speakers.He mentioned some motorized silent ones he saw somewhere that are directional. I'll also check out those Monitors you mentioned. By the way, I figured that the Paradigms I mentioned, the 330's would be considered "bright" by some. I know the higher end Paradigms have that warm smooth sound after hearing some of them at a local shop. I just wasnt sure about the 330's, since no one had them on the floor. Thanks again. And thanks for the 2nd Gavin. |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 404 Registered: Nov-06 | The 330's sound similar to the Monitor series. They use the same type of drivers. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 1236 Registered: Dec-03 | Gavin: Agreed they sound similar to the Monitor series, but they aren't as good. Don't have anywhere near the bass extension of the Monitors--see below. brett: The "brightness" is not what the problem is that has been identified. Brightness in a speaker is an elevated upper midrange, between 2kHz and 4kHz, but this is not the problem with the Paradigm Cinema series. The Paradigm Cinemas just lack any real bass extension, a problem anytime you have such small drivers. They simply can't move that much air. so, it may sound like the speaker is bright when in fact they just don't produce enough bass information to properly provide a balanced image. |
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New member Username: BgitterWest milford, Nj Usa Post Number: 4 Registered: Mar-07 | Im a bit confused. I thought first post reply was since the pioneer eleite vsx-84 was "warm and fuzzy" with good lows, you suggest something with a brighter sound. Wont the 330's have a brighter sound? Also,these past few days I've been eyeing KEF Q series, Like the Q9's upfront and some Possible ceiling speakers they have for surrounds. There are no Monitor showrooms anywhere near me in Northwest Jersey, so maybe you guys think these Kefs would be a good fit? |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 420 Registered: Nov-06 | I agree Hawk. I was just stating that they have the Paradigm "house sound" Brett, No. Paradigm cinema series speakers suffer from no bass depth. They require a subwoofer. This is not the same as a bright speaker, as Hawk pointed out. |
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New member Username: BgitterWest milford, Nj Usa Post Number: 5 Registered: Mar-07 | Gavin, Please excuse my lack of understanding. Are you saying that the frequency repsonses dictate whether there is any "bottom" to the sound? For example the frequency response on the 330's is 110hz-20khz, while the freq response on the KEF 9's are 38hz to 40khz. So this would mean the 330's would "need" a subwoofer, since there is no bottom to their sound at all. However, the KEF 9's have a better response at the low end, and wouldnt "need" that sub. Of course i will be using a sub anyway, but it is not "needed". (I think I can hear ed norton saying, "yeah but your getting closer"-after Ralphs boss misses the cue ball). Sorry again for lack of undestanding. I really appreciate everyones help. bg |
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New member Username: BgitterWest milford, Nj Usa Post Number: 6 Registered: Mar-07 | Music will be about 30-40% tops. The balance will be Surround sound. So i need the features that a Pioneer elite receiver will offer such as USB, HDMI, etc. How about the KEF's new Q series 9's for fronts? I am considering them since I am for lack of walls and they make a nice silent motorized surround speaker coming down from ceiling. If I use one of their better subs with the system, I should be able to get decent sound for music and HT. Whata yu guys think? I dont want to cheap out, But I do want to stay within or close to budget. Figure $1000 for the q9's, $1500 for the motorized surrounds, and Im not sure about which rears , but Im looking at their PSW 3500 sub, which is about $1300, so im already a bit over-budget, but within acceptable tolerances,...i think. Whatta yu guys think? bg |
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