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Bronze Member Username: 1lakerfanPost Number: 79 Registered: Apr-06 | which one is better and what is the difference? |
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Bronze Member Username: Gixer41960Adelaide, South Australia Post Number: 17 Registered: Dec-06 | That depends on what movies you really want to see Albert. Due to the 'war' between Blu Ray and HD DVD certain production companies are backing either Blu Ray (Sony) or HD DVD (Microsoft I think). Because of this a particular movie may only come out on one type of media and not the other, hence the new LG multi player which supports both Blu Ray and HD. Have a look at this link supplied to my by John S. https://www.ecoustics.com/sv/2154 The other thing you have to consider, is the quality. I haven't seen either of these formats as they are not readily available in Australia yet so don't take my figures as gospel but HD DVD disks can only hold something around 25 gig of data while the Blu Ray can hold around 50 gig. Both of these are vast amounts of information but you may still find some compression is required on the HD in both picture and sound compared to a Blu Ray disk. But then again this compression may only be noticed by the completley fastidious (I did have another word there but it seems the word an@l is being mis quoted). |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3319 Registered: Jul-04 | I don't own either, but if you look at reviews of people who own both, almost all of them say HD-DVD has better PQ than Blu-Ray. This isn't very surprising since Sony never could make a decent DVD player. Also the Toshiba HD-DVD player upconverts standard DVDs, and supposedly does a very good job of it, the Sony Blu-Ray doesn't upconvert. |
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Bronze Member Username: TunasaladCalifornia US Post Number: 90 Registered: Dec-05 | I only own a PS3 (Blu-Ray), so I am not able to offer a comparative analysis on picture quality, but I would like to share a few things. First, if you do decide to spend the ridiculous amount of money for a next-gen DVD player, I assume you have a good, Hi-Def tv. If you do, this tv will probably upconvert your SD-DVDs for you. Secondly, I support Blu-Ray because of the huge price difference. The cheapest Blu-Ray 1080p player (the PS3) is available for about $500. Also, the PS3 plays games and is a network device, making it the best value. The Toshiba 1080p HD-DVD player, the HD-XA2 is $1000. So, if you do have a lot of movies, and are really into that, get the new LG dual laser, dual format player. But, if you are interested in the best value, get the PS3. Stefan |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1385 Registered: Feb-04 | For a troubling look at the first dual-format player: https://www.ecoustics.com/sv/2154 It seems to me a properly engineered dual laser player that will do justice to both formats will necessarily be expensive. And waiting for a "winner" before jumping in could be problematic. This format war, like Viet Nam and most likely Iraq, could go on for a long time. After all, how long did VHS vs. Beta go on? At least 10 years or more? |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3322 Registered: Jul-04 | The Toshiba a2 can be bought for less than $400 and the ax2 can be bought for less than $800, both cheaper than the Sony Blu-Ray. Sony DVD players have been problem prone in the past, with poor performance to boot. Some of their problems, but not limited to, spindle motors, laser assemblies, audio sync, poor media compatibility. The PS2 was a nightmare of problems. I'd definitely wait before buying something from a company that has had so many problems in the past. The technology is too new to know what problems loom for the future. |
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Bronze Member Username: TunasaladCalifornia US Post Number: 91 Registered: Dec-05 | Ok, I'll admit that Sony does have its share of poorly functioning products. The other side of that coin is that they do make some of the best visual equipment on the market: tvs, cameras, etc. Fortunately for me, I am not old enough to remember the VHS- BetaMax conflict, but I will say that my PS3 so far has been nothing less than outstanding. Through the HDMI connection its games whip the games for my Xbox 360. The difference is absolutely night and day. David, I paid $480 for my new in box PS3, which, I imagine, was a much better buy than the Toshiba A2. The Blu-Ray format makes the PS3 an excellent gaming machine, also it is a network device and a Blu-Ray movie player. So, at this point I beleive that it is the best buy in the format war at this point. Lastly, I've been hearing a lot about the new Dolby and DTS lossless audio formats and the difficulties faced because only a small number of devices are compatible. Out of curiosity, which devices are compatible with these new formats and is the PS3 one of them? Thanks, Stefan |
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Bronze Member Username: Gixer41960Adelaide, South Australia Post Number: 19 Registered: Dec-06 | Well I'm old enough to remember the Beta VHS war, but over here it was'nt really one at all, sorry to say. When I lived in the South East it was Beta only and when I moved north it was "What the hell is a Beta?" so we had to get VHS. I don't think that this will be the case this time however. I don't think either will drop out and it will wind up being dual media players. If you already own a PS3 (lucky buggers) from what I've read in an article provided by John S I'll let him supply the link as I've cut his lunch once already) the PS3 is an awesomely equipped piece of machinery that is extremely capable of providing 1080p, along with the higher quality audio to go with it. And, if you already own a XBox 360 (like I do) you can get the HD DVD attachment for it at an additional cost and watch the other format. Also Stefan, the PS3 is capable of playing the newer lossless forms of Dolby and DTS. |
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Bronze Member Username: TunasaladCalifornia US Post Number: 92 Registered: Dec-05 | Aaron, Thanks for the info on the PS3. I assume that the newer audio formats are only available over some kind of digital connection: ie digital coax or optical. My other question is, do you need a fancy, high priced receiver to decode the new formats? My receiver is at the lower end (Marantz SR4001) and it sure as heck doesn't say anything about DTS-HD or anything like that. Lastly, I was definetly considering a HD-DVD attachment for my 360 because they are available for like $80 used. What do you guys think about the resolution over the component cables? Also, as I've heard from some "crackpots" and "fringe websites" what about this new XBOX 360 called Zephyr? Thanks for your help, Thanks, Stefan |
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Bronze Member Username: Gixer41960Adelaide, South Australia Post Number: 21 Registered: Dec-06 | Unfortunately Stefan the HD side of the Xbox has not been released here. Be it the poorer cousins or waiting for the PS3 to be released to cash in with the high def side of things. If your receiver is capable of handling multi channel PCM then you will be able to listen to the higher quality sounds of the uncompressed Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS in Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD I believe you need to have a 1.3 HDMI capable receiver to be able to listen to these in 7.1 format. Take a look at a link I started re these new formats which should hopefully clear it up for you. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-theater/328087.html This forum site also has the link from John S which gives a great review on the PS3 as well. Is your receiver HDMI 1.0 or 1.1 >? If it's 1.1 or higher then you should be able to get multichannel pcm which would certainly solve a lot of the problems caused at the moment. |
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Bronze Member Username: TunasaladCalifornia US Post Number: 93 Registered: Dec-05 | This issue has brought several questions to the surface. This post is mainly regarding HDMI accessibility. I understand now that the most effective way to get multi-channel audio from my PS3 DVD player is through HDMI. There are many problems that this presents. First, in order to do this, I will need to use two HDMI cables, one from PS3-receiver and another for receiver-tv. So, will running the HDMI through the receiver (Marantz SR4001 HDMI 1.1) degrade the video quality of the signal. (Also, I remember hearing that all HDMI cables are created equal, regardless of cost...) Anyway, what effects will running the HDMI thorugh a semi low-end receiver have on the quality of the video and audio. Secondly, I currently use the PS3 as a CD and DVD-A player. Will HDMI connectivity make it more difficult for me to access all sorts of content from the PS3? Thanks for all the advice, Stefan |
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Bronze Member Username: Gixer41960Adelaide, South Australia Post Number: 22 Registered: Dec-06 | You probably only need a HDMI to the tv if your tv accepts 1080p/i and even then you can still get 1080i through component, I don't know if you can get 1080p through component or not. So at least at this stage you can get away with one HDMI cable if you are able to connect up with component. There is a lot of for and against all cables are created equally. Some and usually the lay person like you and me probably won't be able to notice any difference what so ever between the bargain basement HDMI cable and the you-beaut triple the cost HDMI cable. That also goes for every other cable whether it be a power cord or a multi power board where you can spend vast amounts of money because it is of better quality. The expert or festidiously an@l out there however may need to spend that type of money either because their calibration equipment will notice it or their bragging rights down the pub won't sound as good. So if it was me I wouldn't worry about too much about where you get the cable. I don't see why the receiver would degrade the signal, unless you are using it to upscale it should just let the video side through and concentrate more on the audio side of operation. I could be wrong on that and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it will effect the quality of the picture. I don't know how much the Marantz SR4001 costs over there so I don't know what you consider low-end receiver but Marantz is a well known and good quality name so it should be fine. How are you connecting your PS3 at the moment? Running HDMI for your DVD-A and cd's won't cause any problems at all and if your receiver is HDMI 1.1 as stated then it should run multichannel pcm through the HDMI cable fine. |
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Bronze Member Username: TunasaladCalifornia US Post Number: 94 Registered: Dec-05 | The Marantz Sr4001 costs $500 MSRP, I got mine for $400 open box. My tv, 60"Sony Grand WEGA SXRD does accept 1080p and componenet doesn't offer it. Anyway, the root of my question was whether or not the video signal could pass straight thourgh if the audio signal was being proccessed. I believe that you think so. I would appreciate any further insight. Thanks, Stefan |
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Bronze Member Username: Gixer41960Adelaide, South Australia Post Number: 23 Registered: Dec-06 | Well when I get my PS3 hopefully in March I'll be running it through my receiver to my projector. I have an Integra DTR 7.7 which is only HDMI 1.1 and I haven't been told it won't run it. I believe the only issues that will be had with the receiver is the sound side of it. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1388 Registered: Feb-04 | For the record, it is possible to send a 1080p video signal over component cables. The question is whether the particular video source device will send 1080p from its component outputs and whether a display can handle a 1080p signal on its component inputs. Stefan, I looked through the 4001 owners manual and I could find nothing that would keep the receiver from processing PCM on its HDMI input. It does say that sampling frequencies of 128 kHz and above are not supported. It is my understanding that multichannel (meaning 5.1 or more) linear PCM sampling frequency does not exceed 96 kHz. Aaron, HDMI has supported 1080p from day one with version 1.0 in 2002. The question is whether your projector will display 1080p. (If it doesn't it's no big deal, imo. 1080i is pretty darn good.) So I agree you should not have any issues with video. And I'll bet that Integra will handle PCM audio as well. Let us know. |
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Bronze Member Username: TunasaladCalifornia US Post Number: 96 Registered: Dec-05 | John I'm not at all sure about this so correct me if I'm wrong. I heard that even if the source supports 1080p over component, the signal is buggy, with jumps and blips and all sorts of problems. Also, if you knew more about this I would be very greatful. I remember reading that all HDMI cables (provided they aren't falling apart) have the same video quality. I remember the reasoning behind this was that it is a digital signal as opposed to analog. Is this true? I need a second HDMI cable and I don't really wany to go drop $100+ dollars when the one from RadioShack is just as good. Thanks, Stefan |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Extreme SQ FTW Post Number: 1762 Registered: Dec-06 | I don't think component cables can support that bandwidth; didn't think they went much over 100mghz. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
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Bronze Member Username: Gixer41960Adelaide, South Australia Post Number: 24 Registered: Dec-06 | John thanks for the update on HDMI 1.0, I wasn't aware that it did support 1080p. The projector I have does support 1080p and my manual states that the Integra will handle Multichannel PCM. So all going well (fingers crossed) there won't be any blips when I eventually do get to try 1080p. I have an Integra DVD player which upscales normal DVD's to 1080i and the projector also upscales to 1080i and this picture is awesome to watch, so was wondering, how much better is 1080p? Is it really worth all they hype and can you visably notice any difference between 1080i and 1080p? |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2Extreme SQ FTW Post Number: 1765 Registered: Dec-06 | I think you can when there's fast movement on the screen. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1390 Registered: Feb-04 | "I don't think component cables can support that bandwidth; didn't think they went much over 100mghz. Correct me if I'm wrong." Good quality component cable can carry higher frequencies. I think 1080p demands a frequency extension up to almost 150 MHz. My HK 7300 receiver's components are rated up to 100MHz, which probably means that a 1080p signal won't pass through it. But the pipeline is robust enough for the task. There are some, though limited, displays that will accept a 1080p component signal such as Samsung's HL-S5087W. |
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Gold Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 1391 Registered: Feb-04 | "Also, if you knew more about this I would be very greatful. I remember reading that all HDMI cables (provided they aren't falling apart) have the same video quality. I remember the reasoning behind this was that it is a digital signal as opposed to analog. Is this true? I need a second HDMI cable and I don't really wany to go drop $100+ dollars when the one from RadioShack is just as good." HDMI is indeed digital. I just can't understand why we have to pay $100+ for an HDMI cable and pay next to nothing for a USB cable. Both probably cost the same to manufacture. And as with all digital interconnects, they work or they don't. There's no in between. Check out monoprice.com for excellent cables at fantastic prices. |
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Gold Member Username: SamijubalPost Number: 3331 Registered: Jul-04 | You can buy HDMI cables on ebay for less than $10 shipped. I think I paid $7 total for mine, it works fine. |
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Bronze Member Username: TunasaladCalifornia US Post Number: 97 Registered: Dec-05 | Hi guys, I am currently shopping for a new HDMI cable. I followed the link to monoprice.com and ran into more questions. The cables there are rated in ascending order by AWG, from 22-28. What does this mean? Also, some are rated for "in-wall installation". What does that mean? Thanks, Stefan |
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New member Username: Josh1005Norfolk, VA U.S.A Post Number: 7 Registered: Mar-07 | all HDMI is the same go to ebay for the best price. dont believe when they say this one is better for that one |
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Bronze Member Username: TunasaladCalifornia US Post Number: 100 Registered: Dec-05 | What is the AWG rating on HDMI cables? Thanks, Stefan |
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Bronze Member Username: Josh1005Norfolk, VA U.S.A Post Number: 12 Registered: Mar-07 | American wire gauge (AWG), also known as the "Brown and Sharpe" wire gauge, is used in the United States and other countries as a standard method of denoting wire diameter, especially for nonferrous, electrically conducting wire. The steel industry uses a different numbering system for their wire thickness gauges (for example, W&M Wire Gauge or US Steel Wire Gauge or the different Music Wire Gauge) so data below does not apply to steel wire. Increasing gauge numbers give decreasing wire diameters, which is similar to many other non-metric gauging systems. This seemingly-counterintuitive numbering is derived from the fact that the gauge number is related to the number of drawing operations that must be used to produce a given gauge of wire; very fine wire (for example, 30 gauge) requires far more passes through the drawing dies than does 0 gauge wire. |
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Bronze Member Username: Gixer41960Adelaide, South Australia Post Number: 25 Registered: Dec-06 | In wall HDMI cables are a little more robust with a thicker protective outer layer enabling you to pull them up through the walls and into ceilings etc without damaging them. I think the problem some component has in regard to 1080p is that some display systems down grade the signal to S Video to enalbe it to be viewed on that particular unit. |