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Silver Member Username: LovegasolineNYC Post Number: 117 Registered: Jul-05 | It has been a while since I posted to this forum but I finally dedicated some cash for a turntable upgrade. My budget system consists of a Yamaha A-700 integrated amp, Meridian 508.20 CD player w/Kimber Hero cables, Polk LSi9 speakers with Home Depot wiring, and an el cheapo bottom feeder Gemini turntable ... the latter certainly the weakest link in my system. I just mailed out payment for a lightly used Music Hall MMF-7 turntable with a Goldring Eroica H (moving coil) cartridge and a Nitty Gritty Record Doctor III (vacuum power record cleaning machine). The seller (from Audiogon) is the original owner and says the cartridge has under 50 hrs use and his feedback is flawless so I have no reason to doubt him. My next upgrade will be a better amp/preamp or integrated amp when I find the right product for the right price. For the time being however, the Yamaha will be amplifying the cartridge's signal. The Yamaha A-700 has a phono stage with a selector for mm/mc cartridges. A few questions: -I'll still somewhat sketchy on the demands various cartridges make upon phono stages. My understanding is that mm cartridges are generally less demanding on amplification gear and that's the type of cartridge my Gemini TT has. Should the Yamaha A-700's phono stage be up to the task of amplifying the Goldring's signal or will it be a struggle? -Regarding TT and cartridge setup. Can anyone point me to some practical info and methods that do not demand expensive measuring devices and gages? -My LP collection is over 20 years old and has been played on the el cheapo Gemini TT and an even worse Panasonic all-in-one el cheapo receiver before that (vintage 1976). Is there a potential that playing my old LPs may damage the Goldring cartridge? Thanks a bunch. |
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Silver Member Username: LovegasolineNYC Post Number: 118 Registered: Jul-05 | Opps, I forgot to ask: are there any TT accessories that are considered extremely useful or critical for my initial setup and playback? Some sort of stylus cleaner, etc? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9764 Registered: May-04 | . https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/323901.html https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/322275.html Read a few of the past threads on this side of the forum for more ideas on set up and maintenance of a table. Download the free two point protractor offered on the forum. "Should the Yamaha A-700's phono stage be up to the task of amplifying the Goldring's signal or will it be a struggle?" The MC switch on the Yamaha simply switched in another gain stage for low output MC's. This should be enough to get you started with the new cartridge but it is not the best option for getting the best from the cartridge. Most MC's require some input loading to sound their best and the Yamaha doesn't allow for this. If your LP's are in decent shape, the stylus will pribably be sitting in a slightly different position in the groove than your previous players allowed. This would position the stylus to track vinyl that has probably never been touched by a stylus. The problem is the bottom of the groove is where the crud acculmulates. So, do a good cleaning with the vacuum machine. I have laid out my instructions for both vacuum and non-vacuum cleaning on this forum. Find them and follow them and you should be fine. One point can't be stressed enough, IMO, do not be afraid to get the disc surface wet. One thin line of fluid on the disc will simply not get the entire disc clean and will probably lead to more noise than you began with. You should find some links to table set up in the referenced threads. You should have a bubble type spirit level and a steel woodworker's ruler marked off in mm's. |
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Silver Member Username: LovegasolineNYC Post Number: 119 Registered: Jul-05 | Thanks for the info and links Jan. I'll study up on phono stages and 'input loading'. I 've got a pretty full shop here so the bubble level and machinist's rule is covered. Can you point me to the link with the free two point protractor? I d remember seeing it referenced on this site in the past, but I did a search for free protrator and nothing came up... Thanks a bunch. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9777 Registered: May-04 | . https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/182558.html |
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Silver Member Username: LovegasolineNYC Post Number: 120 Registered: Jul-05 | Thanks Jan, I downloaded the protractor. I'm waiting for the TT to arrive, should be here in a couple weeks. Until then I'll try to read up more on TT setup and also MC amplification. Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: LovegasolineNYC Post Number: 121 Registered: Jul-05 | I was reading through a thread from a couple years ago which gave a clear breakdown of a variety of cartridge types (entitled "MM/MC cartridge"): https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/165349.html After some more research I've found additional details regarding the Goldring Eroica H cartridge and the advice given is to select the MM input for this cartridge. This is from a site that sells the Goldring line of cartridges: "Goldring's Eroica Series is very popular among audiophiles. The main attraction is that unique moving coil "sound" and high performance stylus profiles. Goldring is one of the few cartridge companies that offer high performance diamond profiles and very attractive pricing.__ Keep in mind that Eroica H, though a MC cartridge, has high output and still connects to the MM input on your phono preamp. Jan would this, to some degree, mitigate the inherent weaknesses of the Yamaha amp in handling the cartridge? Also, I was reading through some of the record cleaning threads both here and on Stereophile's site. I enjoy a certain degree of manuality in my life BUT I had no idea how laborious some of these cleaning regimens are. Unfortunately, they appear to make some sense and are not merely the reflections of fixated obsessive temperaments. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 808 Registered: Feb-04 | Although you asked Jan, I thought I'd chime in. I'm sure Jan will be by shortly. Most high-output MC carts, including the Goldring, are designed to work with a MM phono preamp, or on the Yammie, the MM setting. Input loading is more of concern with low output MC carts. At some point if you really get into spinning vinyl, a separate phono preamp would be in order for better sound. But the Yammie should work for now. I agree getting a vacuum record cleaner is a worthwhile investment if you want to take good care of your records. However, the Stereophile recommended cleaning regimen is overkill IMO, except for the most a n a l audiophile. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 809 Registered: Feb-04 | Lovegas, When you get your TT, I'd be interested to know how the sound of vinyl on your analog rig compares to the sound of cds on the Meridian. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9795 Registered: May-04 | . I agree with what 2c has posted. Most high output moving coils are meant to work into a 47kOhm load which is typical for a moving magnet input, so you will probably be fine there. However, most HO MC's still don't have the same output voltage as a MM cartridge. Therefore it will be your choice as to whether you need to engage the MC switch on the Yamaha. I would tend to run the master volume pot higher rather than add the additional gain stage of the MC switch. And, at this point don't be too concerned about cartridge loading. If you've read about the subject, you'll see the correct value for any one cartridge can be all over the place and frequently is nothing more than, "I like it this way in my system". More importantly, make certain you like "the unique moving coil sound" before you worry about anything else. While the Goldring is a respected cartridge line, you might find it just doesn't suit your system. If not, then you can decide what you should do about the cartridge. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5948 Registered: Dec-04 | Gas, does your table have a single wired ground? Mind this connection for MC. |
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Silver Member Username: LovegasolineNYC Post Number: 123 Registered: Jul-05 | TC & Jan, Good to know that I can at least squeeze by with the Yamaha for now. As I wrote in the 1st post, more than likely sometime this year I'll upgrade to separate preamp + amp (perhaps a tube preamp.... and/or maybe try out an older McIntosh SS integrated). There's a lot for me to discover down that road. I'm also curious how my vinyl will sound compared on the MMF-7 to CDs. I'm just hoping my LPs are not hopelessly beat out with the ragged cartridges they have seen in the past. Jan, I really do not know what to expect from the MMF-&/Goldring combo since my exposure to TT's is extremely limited and has been exclusively dominated by truly Low-Fi rigs. I'm not heavily invested in vinyl and the convenience of using CDs and even more so, my Macintosh G5 with AAC & Lossless digital files (as well as the simplicity of making these latter formats portable on my iPod) will present a significant challenge to the TT. I'm hoping to discover an additional level of musical excitement from my LPs compared to what I've heard from them in the past...and if I get hooked I'll start scouting for more vinyl and hopefully learn more about vinyl and my system in the process. TC, you are probably on the money about a n a l* cleaning, yet my albums have only ever been cleaned with the Diskwasher system so they certainly can use a serious initial scrubbing. Nuck I do not yet have the table in my hands so I'm not certain what the grounding configuration is. *Fascinating that a-n-a-l is a forbidden word here. |