B&W602s3 Fan. marantzSR7500, denon avr2807
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New member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | to all hifi fans, i love B&W602s3 loudspeakers, but which receiver suit this baby most? marantz 7500 or denon 2807. one of this will be my amp base on your hifi fan review. marantz 7500 have THX cert and Denon 2807 have HDMI which is more up to date. Denon 2807 or denon product have negative review in this website, compared with marantz. pls help. B&W 602 is ROCK........... TQ.... tq... |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 895 Registered: Dec-03 | mickey: The primary reason to buy a HT receiver is to reproduce great sound. You have already selected some fine speakers, but I have to ask if you have actually listened to these two receivers with your speakers? If you have, I think the choice is easy. The problem with the Denon is that it has a puny, undersized power supply. It is rated at 110wpc, but that is only driving two channels at a time. Drive 5 channels and there is a good 30% cut in the power alloted to each speaker. In sum, the sound is left sounding strained and unconvincing. Yes, it does have HDMI, but the industry have still not standardized the HDMI connection. There are HDMI, HDMI 1.1, HDMI 1.2 and now Sony is arguing for a new standard HDMI 1.3 to accomodate its new PlayStation. Some of these implementations do not talk to other implementations, so HDMI is pretty much a bust at this point, just a marketing gimmick (your Denon receiver connected to a Sony TV through HDMI will not work, for example). This situation is chaos for consumers, but at least one manufacturer (SAmsung) is trying to use it to convince consumers to buy all Samsung systems. Anyone want a Samsung HT receiver? I didn't think so. About 5 years ago, Marantz came out with the 7200 which was rated at 100 wpc, but a bench test by Sound & Vision magazine showed that when it was driving 5 channels, the power fell to 27 wpc! Word got out and Marantz was sorely punished in the marketplace--in fact, Phillips (the owner) considered shutting down the brand. In the meantime, Marantz got religion and started putting in beefy power supplies and the next generation 7300 was a star. In the meantime, Phillips sold Marantz to Denon, who has left it alone as products for alternative marketing channels (specialty audio shops) and Marantz is one of the few receiver brands I will recommend. This will chenge if Denon mucks it up. So go with the Marantz. Your ears will thank you. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 767 Registered: Nov-05 | Mickey, it's your ears, but I agree with Hawk. Although I now use a NAD to drive my main speakers,I was previously driving them with our Marantz 7300 (predecessor of the 7500) and it did an admirable job with our 602's. To me the Denon has a somewhat warmer musical sound compared to Denon's almost clinical coolness. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 769 Registered: Nov-05 | "To me the Denon has a somewhat warmer musical sound compared to Denon's almost clinical coolness." Should be: To me the Marantz has a somewhat warmer musical sound compared to Denon's almost clinical coolness. That's what happens when one is half asleep. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3521 Registered: Feb-05 | Both Marantz and Denon have more QC issues than Integra which is another brand to consider. A dealer I am familiar with who sells the NAD, Arcam, Marantz and Integra lines (among AVR's) quit selling Marantz AVR's (still sells their otyher products) due to the prolific nature of their QC problems. Considering that she sells NAD and still carries their AVR's that is saying something. Just something to think about. |
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New member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 2 Registered: Aug-06 | Hawak and My rantz, they all back Marantz products why no denon supporter give some review?? hawk  your Denon receiver connected to a Sony TV through HDMI will not work, for example) that one i really no idea at all. tq Hawk. Both Denon and Marantz is under one company now. So which one more demand in the world market, us market or asia market.. since denon and marantz is fr japan. |
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Platinum Member Username: Project6Post Number: 10345 Registered: Dec-03 | Because this thread is not about you. It is pointed towards Mickey, the original poster and his questions. And we cannot make claims upon the demands of the world market nor US nor Asia. It is not this forum members' expertise. If you want to base your choice or preference because of market demands, by all means do so, but do your own research. If you want Denon or Marantz no one is stopping you from making that decision. You do not need to make a choice from any one's opinion, the freedom to choose is yours. The opinions provided are exactly that...opinions based on experience and personal preference. Try not to get your feelings hurt because the members are not favoring Denon. Look around, there are plenty of Denon supporters on this forum, you just need to take the time to do research. |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1224 Registered: Apr-05 | Let's get the facts straight though. Denon does not own Marantz. Marantz and Denon are both owned by a holding company called D&M holding which includes other brands such as Mcintosh, Boston Accoustics and Snell. For the most part the holding company seems to have left most of the companies on their own to develop their own distinct material. http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/index.html |
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New member Username: MancPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-06 | Yeah Hawk I thought they were pretty much left alone to do their own thing (think I read that in a company statement whiles ago). What do you mean by 'speciality audio stores' exactly as in the UK both brands seem to be available in these types of stores. Admittedly Denon (boo if their tellin Marantz what to do or maybe Marantz needs tellin, who knows?) do sell some of their gear, like HTIB and micro systems, in mainstream outlets. Also isn't D&M mostly owned by Ripplewood Holdings LLC. Anywho why should these things even matter when what really matters is giving people what they want. Denon owners seem to crave things like perceived build, features and sound (I'm an expert.....not). While I guess Marantz owners seem to favour sound followed equally by features and build. They're different and should remain so. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 905 Registered: Dec-03 | Manc: I for one, am very pleased that D&M Holdings is not screwing around with the Marantz specs in order to get greater manufacturing efficiencies. A Denon power supply would simply kill the brand, IMO. I also seem to remember that Ripplewood Holdings was a major player in providing financing for the deal that created D&M. Here in the US, Denon has pushed into almost every available outlet, including Sears, the world's second largest retailer, and "big box" home entertainment stores such as Best Buy, and large chain home entertainment stores such as Tweeter and Ultimate Electronics. Denon still has a good presence in the small audio specialty shops, but many of them simply do not want to compete with the big chain stores--places where you can generally audition gear before you buy it. Marantz was so poorly marketed when Phillips owned them that small audio shops were all that was left to carry the brand and many were dropping it. Now, Marantz seems to have gotten to their feet on solid ground again in the US market and they are again rebuilding the brand image with good receivers (the CD players still suck), and trying to expand on their Mordaunt Short speaker line (I can't recall exactly how much they own, but I remember Marantz owns a part of MS). I recognize that Marantz probably didn't fall as far in many other markets, such as the UK, but I also believe Marantz made better products for the UK market. I remember reading in the UK audio press what a great integrated amp the Marantz PM7200 was, but when I went to audition it, it was among the worst amps I have ever heard--simply flat sounding without any real energy. Salesman told me that Marantz doesn't believe there is much of a market for integrated amps in the US (certainly sounding like they made no effort on the product to me). Apparently, it is not the same product as the integrated with the same name sold in the UK. I do think you are right about Denon owners. I used to own one and I ended up hating it for its lousy sound. Like other Denon owners, I got real jazzed by the bells and whistles they had, and it made me want one, so I bought it. Denon is sold on features, such as HDMI inputs and output, and not on a quality sound. I determined my Denon simply did not deliver the sound I wanted, so after a few months it was traded to a friend of mine and I bought my NAD instead. Everyone should get what they want, but I do make the assumption that if you are on this board, it is because you do seek the best sound available for your money. I may be wrong there in a few cases, but overall, I think that is true. |
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New member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 3 Registered: Aug-06 | Hawk: Mr Hawk is correct in all the corner. Marantz didn't do the best job in CD player, i agreed with u. i think Marantz receiver is improving. Marantz owns part of MS. for that one i have no idea at all. thanks for your info Hawk, you look like a hifi expert man.... |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1227 Registered: Apr-05 | Anybody else not receiving their reply e-mails? |
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New member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 4 Registered: Aug-06 | Hawk and friends,,, Hawk mentioned Denon avr2807 is rated at 110wpc, but that is only driving two channels at a time. Drive 5 channels and there is a good 30% cut in the power alloted to each speaker cause the sound unconvincing. but how about Marantz receiver example SR7500.?? how much power will cut when drive 5 channels for the Marantz machine?????.. Stof: i received my email from ecoustics.com |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 919 Registered: Dec-03 | jedi: If you look at the marketing materials closely, you will see the companies with the lousy power supplies rate their receivers as follows (typically): L+R . . . . . . . 100w C . . . . . . . .100w LR+RR . . . . . . 100w This will tip you off they are only rating two channels at a time. Denon actually is better than most with a mere 30% cut in power. Most approach a 50% cut in power. Now, contrast that with Marantz (or NAD, Outlaw, or Arcam) which will publish a spec of: "110 wpc x 7" This means they have rated the receiver with all channels driven simultaneously, with no cut in power by using more than 2 channels. Their statement has no "wiggle room" so if they are lying about it, they can be sued under consumer protection laws. So, Marantz says 110 wpc and bench tests I have seen done confirm that they are within a couple of watts of their rating, even under less than perfect conditions. So there is no cut in power. Denon is a special case. They don't say it either way in most cases. Instead, here is how they spec out their 2106: FEATURES GENERAL Power Output; Watts Per Channel 100 All Channels Rated @ 0.05 THD -- All Channels Rated @ 0.08 THD Weight: In Pounds 26.8 Width (inches) 17.1 Height (inches) 6.7 Depth (inches) 16.4 So they leave it ambiguous, but it is not a definitive 100 wpc x 5, 6 or 7 channels, so I have to conclude they are continuing to play games with the consumer. |
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New member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 6 Registered: Aug-06 | Hawk: if you said like this, Marantz receiver is far more better than Denon. at least Marantz didn't cut their power. way to go. How come Hawk will know all this tricky things?? you work in HiFi line???? way to go Hawk... tq a lot. |
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New member Username: MancPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-06 | Well according to Home Cinema Choice magazine the Marantz SR7500 and Denon's equivalent models (depending where you live......oh purleeze!) the 2805 and 3805 they all seem to fair about the same. None of them reach their rated outputs although they all get to within 15W of their claimed figures. Although the latest 3806 meets it according to them. Jedi, use the search engine (What are you looking for?) at the top of this page to see. I have seen variations in bench tests though from publication to publication. |
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New member Username: MancPost Number: 4 Registered: Aug-06 | Hawk, So have you heard their new one, the PM7001? It too is supposed to be good, a new direction. Might get a listen to one myself aswell as other stuff around October time if I'm lucky. What do they say about make something great..... |
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New member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 8 Registered: Aug-06 | Manc , Hawk & friends, marc I did search for the marantz SR5700 on this website just as you told me. . According to the (home cinema choice) Lab Report it showed that SR7500 muscle at 130W when powering two channels and 90W when powering 5 channels if your speaker offer 8 ohm. Thati½s pretty amazing not much power cut. One question guys, the B&W602s3 power handling is 120W into 8 ohm. So 602 offer 8 ohm rite?? if SR7500 powering two channels @ 130W according to Lab Report, it is possible for 602s3 to handling 130W at two channel. ?????? . advise . Thank you vert much. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 782 Registered: Nov-05 | Jedi, the 602's are rated to handle 120w - but you would not wish to continuously drive them at that. They have a decent impedence curve going down to 3ohms (if not more), but having said that, if you are not using a hall for your audio listening, then the 7500 is more than ample to drive the 602's at decent listening levels for your loud music requirements. Whether the amp is rated over or under what the speakers are capable of handling, if you use maximum volume you'll experience 'clipping' which can cause damage to either amp or drivers. Put that word in a search engine with amplifiers and drivers and read up for a better understanding. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1824 Registered: Feb-04 | Jedi, There is next to no difference in sound output between 120W and 130W and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference (0.35 dB). |
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New member Username: MancPost Number: 5 Registered: Aug-06 | Agree with the previous posters. Jedi, I don't think either receiver will have difficulty driving those B&W's although I think the Marantz, going off past efforts, will drive them with greater ease. Also the SR7001 is out very soon which apparently features HDMI (aswell as Audyssey EQ) if that is important for you right now. That is if your display, or one you are contemplating, has only one HDMI input and you need 2. Are you able to demo with your speakers? |
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New member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 9 Registered: Aug-06 | my rantz, i'll never use maximum volume, i know it will cause damage to my speaker and amp. Manc, Peter when SR7001 out in the market, i think the price will be high further more SR7001 features HDMI. So far i don't have HDMI connection on my TV. even if i have HDMi on my tv, i'd prefer to run HDMI straight from the digital DVD player with HDMI to TV with HDMI. i think it wasn't really worth it to pay another few hundred dollar just for the HDMI for receiver. just like Hawk said: the HDMI connection is not standardized at the point. am i rite Hawk??? tq i learned smthing from you guys.... demo my speaker?? no, not yet.. |
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New member Username: MancPost Number: 7 Registered: Aug-06 | Jedi, So are you any nearer to deciding? Do let us know which one and why. |
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New member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 10 Registered: Aug-06 | Manc & co, i walked in one of the hifi shop and asked for the SR7500, one of the product adviser told me that, SR7500 is out of stock, we already place the order and the unit not arrive yet. lot of customer asked for SR7500 that's why we out of stock. he said. he also told me SR7500 sound is very clear the price is reasonable and with THX customer just like it and we sell Marantz more than Denon.. that is what he told me. i don't know whether is true or not??? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1630 Registered: Sep-04 | Denon have improved the power supplies in their amplifiers substantially in the last year or so. Prior to the latest range, the 3805 was the only amp from Denon that could drive unfriendly loads. The 2807 is more than capable of driving a set of B&W602s which are not exactly difficult to drive and which have a relatively benign impedance characteristic. I find the 2807 to be a very good machine indeed and have had good results driving a 15x13ft room with the 2807 into M&K (4ohm loads), Totem (4-6 ohm loads), KEF (8-ohm loads) and B&W DM600 series. I believe the Denon is better than Hawk has described. I accept that in the past Denon used weedy little power supplies, but they have addressed this issue, at least in part, and the quality of their processor stage certainly seems to help the 2807 into a competitive spot. There's little to touch it at the price here in the UK. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: BustaPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 | I have the 602 S3's and whole surround package and have been using the Marantz SR5200 reciever. I've been thinking about upgrading to the SR7001 as I've noticed that with my SR5200 when watching movies in multi-chanel like Star Wars at louder volumes there seems to be less dynamic response to the soundtracks which I've attributed to a lack of POWER... Has anyone else had similar experiences with this reciever? My SR5200's power is listed in the manual as: front......90W Center.....90W Surround...90W Does this mean the power output may be dropping substantially with multichanel use? Music in 2 channel is awesome though... HAWK, do you think I'll hear a big difference with the SR7001? |
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Bronze Member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 12 Registered: Aug-06 | Jason, i support you. go for it. SR7001 is 110w per channel. big difference with SR5200. let us wait and see. SR7001 is coming soon but have to pay more. |
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New member Username: BustaPost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-06 | Thanks, the more I talk about it the more comfortable my wife is about it. Or she just may be sick of hearing about it!!! |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1878 Registered: Feb-04 | Except that both are Marantz and are therefore rated the same way (NOT all chanels driven at the same time). The difference between 90W and 110W is minuscule. It's probably not even a tick mark on the volume dial. |
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New member Username: BustaPost Number: 3 Registered: Sep-06 | Marantz now says 110W x7 for the SR7001 |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 824 Registered: Nov-05 | The earlier Marantz AVR's up to the SR7200 did not cope well (reach listed specs) with all channels driven. From the SR7300 and on, they managed much better especially the models from the last two years from the 5000 series upwards. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 13 Registered: Aug-06 | i agree Marantz is doing a very good job in the past few years. SR7001 with THX ultra2. wht the difference between THX ultra2 and THX select?? (SR7500 with THX select) |
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Bronze Member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 15 Registered: Aug-06 | helllo guys, hawk, marc & co... Last few days I finally order the B&W602s3. It took me few months to decide to buy 602s3 and I think I made the right choice.. can't wait to hear the sound of B&W.SR7001 is too expensive and is out of my budget. see you guys....... |
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Bronze Member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 16 Registered: Aug-06 | hello guys... some speaker have 2 pair of input jack . (HF and LF)..actually which one i can usse.??? my B&W speaker just arrived. btw i found out i thing, can banana plug plug in this kind of speaker.?????? thank you guys,,,,, |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 901 Registered: Nov-05 | Yes jedi, you need to pull the red and black plastic plugs out of the binding posts. The two pair of speaker connections are for biwiring or biamping. |
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Bronze Member Username: MancPost Number: 16 Registered: Aug-06 | Congrats on the speakers. Also when you can try replacing the gold plated jumber bars with short runs of speaker cable, bit finnicky mind. It a cheap tweak and should improve the sound some. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 17 Registered: Aug-06 | i get it now.. thanks anyway....the speaker look very nice..... just need some time to burn in the speaker before fire it up...... |
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Bronze Member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 20 Registered: Aug-06 | hello guys, oh Manc, replacing gold plated bars with speaker cable? i will try next time ok.. Just purchased SR7500 few days ago. Wow this machine is so solid and beauty. this machine is totally capable of driving the B&W602 no problem at all, for me. the base is good, the sound is so clear. even the HT system is good. i played DVD's Gladiator, spiderman2. wow man. DTS really rock the house, i tell you. i think the speaker play the important role here. is worth it. thank you guys, hawk, manc. M.R///// waiting for your reply guys....... |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 923 Registered: Nov-05 | Congtats on the SR7500 jedi, it's a very nice AVR and should be good for the 602's. You'll find setting the sub for different processes will take a bit of experimenting. And those 602's will keep getting better and better with time. My opinion is to put them on very solid stands, experiment with toeing in and placement from rear and side walls. It can all make the world of difference. Cheers M. R. |
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Bronze Member Username: MancPost Number: 18 Registered: Aug-06 | Congrats again. Good to see you're enjoying your new setup. We don't get enough DTS :-) |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1459 Registered: Jun-05 | I think you should go after a Rotel receiver,they will drive difficult loads better than the Marantz or Denon,and they are sister company to B&W,the 602 S3s drop to a low 3.2 ohms under 200 htz,that means you will need some serious current in order for them not to sound lean in the upperbass and midbass,and be short on dynamics,which is common for most B&Ws. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 22 Registered: Aug-06 | Manc, what u meant " we don't get enough DTS"???? i'll consider to buy a solid stand for the speakers, thanks.. to T.A.W, i know rotel is good but rotel is out of my budget and further more rotel don't have much more choices.. |
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Bronze Member Username: MancPost Number: 19 Registered: Aug-06 | I just meant we don't get the DTS option on that many dvd's here in the UK at least. I generally prefer it over dolby. Enjoy. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 23 Registered: Aug-06 | oh i see, now i get it. yes Dobly Digital is much more general than DTS. u enjoy your music too ok Manc... |
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New member Username: PoringdropsPhil Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 | Hi Peeps, Im new here. Also new in AV-Music/HT setup. Just recently bought new units. A DENON AVR2807 and a pair of B&W 602 S3. Just a 2ch system as of now. Still in the break in period of the speaker so it dont sound that good yet. However, the power being supplied by the AVR is quite good. Maybe because Im just a beginner on these stuffs.  Just sharing. Thanks! |
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Bronze Member Username: Jedi1Post Number: 26 Registered: Aug-06 | hiporingdrops, how u find about B&W602s3??? u have to up grade to 5 channel to watch dvd. the sound is good. but i don't know about AVR2807.... but SR7500 is good, surround speaker is loud and clear. is perfect. and worth it. poring, enjoy your music machine.... |
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