H/K AVR-230 Vs Nad T742
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New member Username: TranceloverPost Number: 3 Registered: Apr-04 | i need help with deciding between these two. Both are at the same price range (T742 little cheper) but H/K has 6.1 . I think H/K has a warmer sound then nad so i would need a brighter speaker i dont know if it will match with B&W but I know that Nad would (i have B&W at my local dealer). For me stereo is more importent then HT. I would also need help with deciding bokshelf speakers. If u have any experirnce with these two i will appreciate your post. thanx |
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Anonymous | I bet the HK 230 is cheaper at onecall for under $380.00. |
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AdamVerducci Unregistered guest | Comments please? Trying to make the same decision. I know the NAD is probably superior in sound quality, but I think the H/K has better features and still delivers great sound quality. What do ya'll think? Thinking about pairing these up with some PSB Image series... |
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Anonymous | HK 230 is actually about $340 at bestpriceaudiovideo.com or by searching yahoo.NAd 742 is refurb at dmc-electronics.com or new at saturdayaudio.com or hippo audio(743 is the new model for about $550)--HK is very competetive receiver but if you like listening to music,or like a subtler movie presentation I think the nad's are MUCH better-I beleive the nad's are much more musical and detailed--if you are using very efficient 8ohm + speakers that are not too expensive(rd. cheap)than the hk is worth considering as presumably the difference would not be as noticeable without better speakers.psb speakers are supposed to be the best with nad so for psb speakers I would choose nad.If speakers are 6 ohm or below(or 8 ohm with low 87db efficiency and/or hard to drive)I would choose nad because from what I've read hk has hard time driving low imp. speakers---so hk will probably match well with inexpensive 8 ohm speakers,and nad is probably a better choice for better,more expensive speakers esp. if you like a more musical and slightly subtler HT experience.If budget is an issue the hk is a contender,although if you value subtlety over muscle the marantz 440 at $300 or denon 1604 at $250 are probably better choices(yamaha 450,550 are also smoother performers but also must be used with efficient speakers like hk-denon and marantz I beleive have more power than yamaha,hk but of course slightly less than nad) |
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Bronze Member Username: StonePost Number: 22 Registered: Dec-03 | Just some thoughts... It may be an artificial sound, but I absolutely love Logic 7 for music and viewing TV. That is only available with the HK. The HK is really feature rich. NAD has a better musical sound but has well documented issues. You are hit or miss with an NAD unit's reliability. HK230's are not perfect but seem to be reliable, solid units. I agree if you are driving inefficient speakers, the HK230 is not the best receiver for high level listening. However, I am currently using 6ohm speakers and there is never a hint of distortion at maximum volumes. The sound just gets a bit closed in. It could be because my speakers are extremely power hungry. My HK230 will eventually be an inexpensive pre-amp then phased out completely. All that said, I came into the HK230 for dirt, dirt cheap and wouldn't buy either at full price if I was shopping right now. I like the Marantz AVR's. |
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Anonymous | yes logic 7 is great(I've heard)-however newer receivers with dpl2x will do the same thing(give you 6-7ch for stereo).Pioneer 814,914 from datavis.com and yamaha 450,550 will give you dpl2x(in the future all receivers will have it of course).Pioneer 814,914 are top receivers and will probably sound good with the b and w speakers.If you are using large speakers like b nd w's,or speakers that are below 8 ohm,or are in a large room,or like to play your music at party levels sometimes you should probably stick to more powerful receivers like pioneer,nad,marantz,HK,denon,onkyo in approximately that order-nad is the most powerful but I put pioneer 1st because it is very powerful and is much cheaper and has more features than nad--reviewers also state that the pioneers sound very good,but i have not listened to confirm that myself.If you can do without dpl2x and you only need listenable volumes,or have a smaller room than I would probably prefer denon.I do think pioneer or denon would sound very good with b&w's--I really like the pioneer with the b&w's although admittedly it would not sound as good or as smooth and musical as an nad,but i think it would sound very good and I think the pioneers are only second to nad for power and haver plenty of power for b&w's--yes if your b&w's are 8 ohm or bookshelves the HK 130,230 will probably have plenty of juice to drive them,however the pioneers(according to the reviews) are more detailed and better in surround(If you want to listen to music in 5-7ch surround using dpl2x this also applies).In comparison between the pioneer 814,914 and the hk 130,230 which are about equally priced the main differences seem to be bass management options are better in hk(usefull if your speakers are different sizes).According to the reveiews the pioneer receivers are better performers than hk(and they do have better processors for HT)but of course it does come down to personal taste,and i would think the hk's would be a bit meatier sounding than pioneer's(although not quite as detailed)--the best solution would probably be too compare the pioneer and hk in store-I don't think the speakers they use in the store will matter to get a basic idea of what pioneer and hk sound like.As much as I love nad I don't think i will be getting an nad since i order by mail and have heard of so many problems--if you live near an nad dealer etc. try them out.But for a price/performance ratio you can't beat the pioneer's--if you have bookshelf speakers and /or a small room I'm sure the HK's are probably also good,as well as all the others I've mentioned.Honestly in terms of myself using the simple criteria of sound quality and price I would try these receivers first(power requirements are the most important which you will have to figure out based on your setup and listening requirements):first i would try pioneer,than denon,marantz,onkyo,hk etc. |
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New member Username: TranceloverPost Number: 4 Registered: Apr-04 | thanx for all the posts. I will go and try out the nad and danon at my local dealer but unfortunatly I am not able to listen to H/K. So the H/K has 6.1 and much better features the nad has better sound but more problems, sense I can get the nad from my local dealer the problem issue may not be a big problem (I hope). i have a small rom and will use bookshelfs so the power is not the problem. maby i will go for the nad (I will check out the pioneer also) but still its hard to decide, it would be perfect if i could try out the H/K. hmmmmmm... i have to make more resurch. |
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Anonymous | truthfully I think pioneer is the best overall-especially if HT performance is more important than hifi performance(if you listen to music in 5-7 ch. there may not be a difference anyway).Read the pro reviews from the british mags listed on this website for the pioneer 912 and the reviews for the pioneer elite receivers--the pioneer elite 55 is only about $600 online and has superb build and great sound-yes the nad's will probably sound a little better in hifi terms but the pioneers are much better in surround performance,features and if you listen to music in 5-7 ch. the difference is probably negligable---if you don't want to spend $600 I would get the new pioneer 814,914-according to the reviews of the 812,912 you will probably be blown away with the performance of the pioneers(especially in 5-7 ch and with movies).The denon 1604 would be a bit smoother sounding probably but not as detailed as the pioneers.I would probably only get a denon over a pioneer if you want something really smooth sounding(the pioneers are smooth I think just not quite as smooth as denon).i really see no advantage of the HK except perhaps a little meatier and aggrssive sound than the pioneer and denon--but not as detailed as either(or at least the pioneer)and not as good in surround as either the pioneer's or denon's. |
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Anonymous | regarding my post above---the truth is I am biased against the HK because I bought one many years ago and did not like it-I thought the sound had power but was thin sounding(although powerful) and that it had more distortion than my previous receiver at the time(a classic HK)--the HK's do have more distortion than others due to having a low-no negative feedback design but I am used to very smooth sounding equipment so it may not be as noticeable to you.Although reviewers say the pioneers are smooth and great sounding there is a possibility that the HK's would be just a little smoother and more detailed than the pioneer's in the bass particularly--but it's undisputable that the pioneer is the top in surround performance and features(like dpl2x) followed by the denon I think. |
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Bronze Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 63 Registered: Feb-04 | This is interesting. I still haven't chosen between my many options, T743, CA 540R, SR5400/6300, AVR230/330, VSX-AX3(=~VSX53), but I'm starting to lean towards the Pioneer. It is so well built and feature rich and still has nice warm and detailed sound that the others are starting to look a bit inferior. While the NAD sounds best it lacks too many features and is the most expensive. CA sounds good too, but is hard to use with it's 1-line display, no-OSD and poor remote. The SR5400 seems nice, but while I can have SR6300 for 100 euros less or the Pioneer for the same price, it doesn't look so good. It has all the features that I want (except B-speakers/zone-2), but does it give enough current for my little hungry speakers? SR6300 lacks component switching, but I dont care so much about that. I have only one component source and no screen for it and HDMI will soon be here, so why bother. H/K is more basic mid-fi, no special sound or anything. They are powerfull and feature rich but the sound is not as detailed and musical. The Pioneer AX3 is a nice marriage of everything. While it loses to NAD, CA and Marantz in sound quality (marginally), it beats them in features/power. Against H/K it offers better sound quality. Bad things about it are huge size and no component switching. It is so deep that it wont fit in my shelf so I'll have to invent a new place for it wich is not that easy. The price differences on the two sides of Atlantic are quite formidable. The VSX-AX5i (=Elite 55) costs here around 1300-1500 euro (=1500-1700 USD) while you seem to have it for ~600USD. |
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Anonymous | Hi-no the elite 53(not 55) is about $600 online-the 55 is about $1000 us. |
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Bronze Member Username: Gatt767Malta Post Number: 33 Registered: Feb-04 | Come on, what are the docomented issues that you are stating Stone? If you say that the T742, is short on features, then I agree! But we cannot continue blamming a manufacturer because of some faulty units comming out of the production line! Can you please give me a product (Any Product) that came out of the Production line and did not have any issues and returns because of any faults! |
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Bronze Member Username: StonePost Number: 23 Registered: Dec-03 | You got to be kidding R.G. Use the search feature. Hell, my local NAD dealer told me not to buy a T742 I was considering since they were getting more than 50% returned for issues. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 89 Registered: Dec-03 | Hell, my local NAD dealer told me not to buy a T742 I was considering since they were getting more than 50% returned for issues So I imagine that he has since dropped the product line? |
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Bronze Member Username: StonePost Number: 24 Registered: Dec-03 | Not sure, the store told me if I really wanted an NAD AVR to wait for the T7x3 series that was scheduled to come out in a few months and see if the Q.A. problems would be cleared up. I will admit, I have not followed up with them about the T7x3's. The new models may be bug free. |
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New member Username: TranceloverPost Number: 5 Registered: Apr-04 | it will be interesting to see if the T7X3 is bug free, does anyone have any information on this. However how does the pioneer 812 perform against NAD in stereo mode and which speakers does 812 match with ( will it match with B&W DM303). |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 43 Registered: Dec-03 | Stone, That's odd, are you sure you don't mean the some other model? Maybe the T752? I've had one for about 6 months now and have had one minor problem (see below) and certainly haven't seen many reported on this or other forums specific to the T742. I was having a sporatic problem where the volume dial on the receiver didn't work. I was going to bring it in to have it checked but it doesn't happen anymore. I talked to the dealer about it and he mentioned they haven't had any problems with T742s but to bring it in if I wanted them to have a look at it. The biggest drawback to the T742 is the feature set. Bass management in paticular is very limited, but the sound is great. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 45 Registered: Mar-04 | FWIW, due strictly to budget concerns I recently picked up a T742 (instead of a 7x3) to match with PSB Image series speakers and its operating trouble-free and sounds great. My guess is a vast majority of the NAD AVRs are fine, as they say the squeeky wheel gets the grease. I would not let a few problem units others have experienced keep me from buying and enjoying the NAD line. |
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Bronze Member Username: LandrovalPost Number: 68 Registered: Feb-04 | http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbench/frame.html?http://www.whatvideotv.com/cgi-b in/displayreview.php?reviewid=3005 What about that review of T742? They really did not like it so much, how can that be? |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 44 Registered: Dec-03 | I think 2 out of 5 for 'featues/ease of use' and 4 out of 5 for 'sound' is about right. That's about how I'd rate it, maybe 4.5 for sound ;). Since they didn't specify what kind of speakers they were using/room size etc. and whether or not a sub was present it makes it hard to determine if their expectations were maybe a bit too high or not for HT. It doesn't have 'tons' of power so not using a sub or using low to mid efficiency speakers would probably be less than satisfying for HT. |
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Bronze Member Username: StonePost Number: 27 Registered: Dec-03 | Smitty, I apologize. You jogged my memory. I had forgotten, it was the T752, not the T742 that the local dealer had returned repeatedly. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 45 Registered: Dec-03 | Stone, whew! Glad to hear that. The anecdotal evidence from various forums regarding T752 problems (and the $300 difference) was one of the main reasons I ended up with the T742 instead. With a one year old & three year old I couldn't really make much use of any more power than the T742 supplies anyway, well except for maybe Finding Nemo  . Say, what did you end up with for a receiver? |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 51 Registered: Mar-04 | Landroval, From a features POV, it would be hard to argue for the 742. From a audio POV, that's a different story. As I said, I bought this receiver, my first HT rig, due to budgetary constraints. I researched it and knew pretty much what I was getting into. I've learned to live with the archaic setup and actually don't feel its too bad. But then I really have nothing to compare it to. Like they say, ignorance is bliss |
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New member Username: TeejayBrooklyn, New York United States Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-04 | I can't compare the two models, but I wanted to point out that you can possibly save some money on the AVR-230 by buying a refurbished one on eBay from Harman Kardon. These units have the full two-year factory warranty and have sold for as low as $250 plus shipping and tax (if applicable). I got one for $270 ($313 total) and am awaiting delivery. Although I cannot yet comment on the unit's condition or performance, Harman Kardon has excellent feedback on eBay. Getting the best deal on eBay does require patience, so it might be a while before you can snag a low price. |
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New member Username: WillowPost Number: 9 Registered: Feb-04 | Whew from me too! I have had the 742 for about the same time as Smitty and have had no issues with the unit. Was worried about the 50% returns comment... I agree that the feature set is limited, no bass management or channel eq settings. No OSD for setup but all this is made up for by great sound. |
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