Integrated amp for my Totem Arro's
|
New member Username: Prego2828Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I know it's a question of taste .. but I could use some help. I've got a pair of beautiful Totem Arro speakers and I'm looking for a new amp. Does anyone have some suggestions? To make it a bit difficult: Budget appr. 1000-1500 euro's (kind of the same in USD) - It's being placed in a closed (so no tubes please) - max depth of the amp has to be 33cm (13"). Hope i get some replies ... I myself am thinking of a creek classic 5350SE ... Let's here it .. Cheers, Roy |
|
Silver Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 114 Registered: May-05 | Bryston B60R, less than 11" deep...and it's a Bryston, so it looks like it was put together with NASA-spec attention to detail and quality. I haven't heard it yet, but I'd bet money that it doesn't suck. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2116 Registered: Dec-04 | Nice rec, Frosty. Roy, Bryston does not make crap, and some of my favorite setups have been with their power. I have not heard these units, but I am a big fan of the Brystons. Can you find them at a dealer? |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2117 Registered: Dec-04 | Roy Frank A will stop by soon as well, he is a huge Totem fan, and knows them well, but in the UK. You might see a European rec from him, your prego says you might be over the pond. |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1110 Registered: May-05 | I don't know about Euro prices or conversion rates. I also don't know if these will fit your size criteria, however you could find their sizes and specs online - Naim Nait 5i Arcam integrateds - I can't remember model numbers, but all the ones I've heard match well with the Arro NAD 352 or 372 These are all different prices and classes. The Creek is a very good integrated. The Bryston is also a phenominal, probably the best of the group, in build and sound quality. All Brystons have a real 20 year warantee, not a paper one. I haven't heard the Rega integrateds, but I've heard the Mira and Sttaf are a great match, so I'm assuming a Rega integrated and the Arro would be at least very good. As Nuck and Frosty said, Frank Abela knows Totem better than anyone else here. He sells them part time in the UK. I'm sure he'd give the best insight. Good luck! |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1296 Registered: Sep-04 | Roy OK, I'm in! The Naim Nait5i has to be in the equation here. I know it's only rated at 50w/ch but those are big watts. It runs in class B so it runs cool and it's only 30 cm deep. It swings beautifully well too. It retails for £725 in the UK so I guess it'll be a touch more expensive in Euroland at about 1200 euros. It's a particularly strong combination with the Arros. They just sound like they were made for each other. Dopn't skimp on the speaker cable either minimum 3.5m per side of Naim cable at around £9.25/m so another 100 euros. It makes a big difference. Cyrus 8vs. Another well made amplifier at about similar money. Very open and clear so suits classical a lot. Needs an open sounding cable like DNM Reson or Townshend Isolda (big money). Arcam Diva A90. Again similar money. A bit warmer, easier to listen to but takes no risks. Best matched with Chord Odyssey cable. The Rega Cursa/Maia is a good combo with the Arros too but it's at the limit of your price range at £1000 all in (about 1500 euros). Those are the ones I have experience with. There are some other amps available in Euroland like T+A, the Creek Destiny (too much?), Densen B150 (fabulous too, but I haven't heard it with the Arros) which you should check out (especially the Densen). Regards and Good Luck, Frank. |
|
New member Username: Prego2828Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 | Thanx ... I've made an appointment with a Naim dealer for comming saterday. The naim is very reasonably prices in Euroland (990 euros) so that's a pre. I'll give an update after the weekend .... Roy |
|
New member Username: Prego2828Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-06 | I've heard the Naim nait5i this weekend. Was a great amp. In comparission with the rega mira3 much more body. Terrific speed and great sound ... Problem was that the dealer showed me an synthesis tube amp (symphony). Together with the Totem it was pure magic. I called the distributor and he told me that the synthesis flame was even better with the arro's. It costed 1490 euro's (for the remote controlled one) and I think I've found my amp. Still need to think about placement (in closet) but when I play with the door open that shouldn't be any problem ... So now it's saving for christmas Cheers Roy |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1170 Registered: May-05 | Roy, Glad to see you're listening to gear and know more about what you want. Since you've decided tubes are a way to go, have you heard/considered the PrimaLuna line? I haven't heard it, nor the one you mention. A few regulars here have the ProLogue 2 and love it. I believe it's around the same price you mention, and may be worth considering. The ProLogue 1 and 2 have both gotten rave reviews from just about every publication out there. |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1309 Registered: Sep-04 | Glad to hear you found something you like. I just hope it can cope with the rather difficult load that is the Arro. Tube amps aren't renowned for coping with difficult loads. Regards, Frank. |
|
New member Username: Prego2828Post Number: 4 Registered: Apr-06 | Frank, Can you tell me a little bit more about this difficult load ... my regular dealer also warned me about this with the totems. He said i'll better go for the Naim. It's hard to differentiate the sales talk from the real ones ... Better to ask now than be sorry later ... I mean it's a choice between two good amps ... so |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1314 Registered: Sep-04 | The Totem Arro is a difficult load even though it doesn't seem to on paper. Tube amps don't like difficult loads. This is why some of them have both 4 and 8-ohm connections. The 4-ohm connection raises the distortion in the amp, but it makes it cope with a difficult load better. The Arro is a 4-ohm load and 87db/w/m. This is below average and it seems to need more power than one would expect. I'm inclined to agree with your dealer. Then again, if you really liked the Symphony and you heard it WITH the Arros, it's your decision in the end. Me? I'd go with the Naim, but then I like what that does a lot so I'm biased. Regards, Frank. |
|
Silver Member Username: Jamesp, Post Number: 153 Registered: Apr-04 | Simaudio Moon I-3 or I-5. Plinius 8100 or 9100. |
|
New member Username: Prego2828Post Number: 5 Registered: Apr-06 | Here an update (mainly for Frank) ... the naim it has been. After some more listening sessions it got better and better ... a really match made in heaven ... The Arro's and the nait5i really make it happen ... Thanx for all your advice ... |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1471 Registered: Sep-04 | Roy, To finish it off, here's a few tips. 1. Save up for the Naim NACA5 speaker cable, minimum 3.5m a side, just single wired. It works better than any other cable I've tried with the amp, irrespective of price. 2. Take out the standard biwire strips on the Arros and replace with small links of NACA5. Works much better (those strips are awful). Get a little freebie out of your dealer!  3. Unless you live in an electrical storm risk area, leave the amp switched on. It warms up, mellows out and loosens up when left on. Luckily it's class B so it uses very little power (around 5 - 10w) when there's no signal going through it - just enough to keep the circuit warm. It's less power than most TVs left on standby. 4. Use the DIN inputs if you can - they're better. Best non-Naim interconnect combination (for a 2RCA-to-DIN, or 4RCA-to-DIN) is Chord Chrysalis. I hope you enjoy your time with the Nait. It's a great little amplifier with bags of excitement. Cheers, Frank. |
|
Silver Member Username: MarkuspToronto, ON Canada Post Number: 145 Registered: Apr-04 | Frank - would you say that the Nait 5i is a good match with Totem Sttafs as well? I am currently running them with a Rega Mira 200 and a Planet 2000. I also have the ability to pick up a Cyrus 6vs integrated and a Cyrus 6 CD (not the s version). What are your opinions on that pairing? Thanks. |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1473 Registered: Sep-04 | The Nait5i matches well with Sttafs. In some ways, Sttafs are actually a touch easier to drive than Arros, which is why you're probably getting reasonable results with your Mira. The weak point in your kit is the Planet. The new Apollo is a significant step up from the Planet 2000. As to Cyrus, if Rega is your bag, then Cyrus most likely is not. Cyrus is all about a clean detailed open sound first, and pace, rhythm and timing a far second. Rega is all about timing and pace with the details a very far second. So they come from a very different angle. Naim adds rhythm and swing to the Rega's strengths. regards, Frank. |
|
New member Username: Prego2828Post Number: 6 Registered: Apr-06 | Frank, just one more question to finish things of ... do you also reccommend the naim cd player (cd5i) or are other players also good compatible with the amp ???? |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1483 Registered: Sep-04 | Roy, There are lots of good players on the market so as usual take your time to demo. The CD5i is a good machine with the Naim swing to it. The new Rega Apollo is a bit cheaper and in some ways better than the CD5i. That said it doesn't have the Naim's sense of swing, since it's a Rega. There are others out there, but yes the CD5i is a good combination which comes with the added bonus of its own good quality interconnect. It looks like a piece of string but it's the best musical result below very silly money. Other interconnects may have more resolution or better soundstage but they just don't sound as cohesive and fluid as the Naim one. Regards, Frank. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3214 Registered: Dec-04 | Since Roy was closing off, a question, Frank? I have seen you describe different pieces as having 'swing'. Now, I think I get the gist of your description, and i seems to be one of your favorite descriptions for favorite sounds. Can you give me a bit o' bone on this affectionate term? Thanks. |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1490 Registered: Sep-04 | Hmm... Yeah, I know I use it quite a bit, and until you've heard it you don't really get what I mean I guess. I'll try to explain. It's a term most often attributed to Naim equipment. The older 'olive' equipment used to swing really hard. The newer equipment is more balanced so its sense of swing is more subtle, although it's still recognisably Naim. It's a characteristic of how the music is presented of course, which could be construed as a bad thing since HiFi is not meant to have a character of its own. The flat earth appoach is to concentrate predominantly on pace rhythm and timing, or PR&T, rather than the round earth attributes of soundstage, resolution, clarity, extension in frequncy extremes. Rega kit falls into the flat earth side but concentrates more on pace and timing which - in the wrong system can make it sound metronomic. Rhythm was the Linn Sondek LP12's forte. Naim's strength is a blend of timing and rhythm which I refer to as swing. If you take a small band of good musicians, you'll be aware of a rather odd thing. They play with the timing! So timing is not necessarily a set period. Musicians play around it, giving a looseness and give-and-take which gives the phrases of the music a sense of progression, or swing. This phenomenon (?) is most obviously noted with drummers. Before the advent of electronic music, only the best drummers could mess with the timing and still maintain the beat. In the eighties, the electronic drum machines made life rather difficult for drummers for a while and there was genuine consternation that drummers were going to become surplus to requirements. However, after some time, (a couple of years where drum machines were very popular), it became apparent that the drum machines were constraining bands' creativity and they started to incorporate the drummer again in a bid to bring back some of the looseness. Drummers, in the meantime, had evolved and started using a 'click-track', but had developed the technique of playing 'slow' or 'fast' around the click track during a track. The click track helped enormously since there was a measured beat they could rely on and swing back into, but it's quite a special skill. I should point out that the click-track is not the same as a metronome although that could be your simplest click track. For more on click tracks have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_track which is better at describing what I'm talking about. The really clever thing about the best drummers is that they mess with the timing even with the click track, and that's what I think of as swing. Probably totally confusing...sorry. Frank. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3245 Registered: Dec-04 | That's just about where I figgured you were with that description, Frank, thanks. I am familiar with click track, so it makes perfect sense. Buddy Rich or Gene Kruppa could walk in and out of it. Some new players can, too. I can't. |
|
Silver Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 115 Registered: May-05 | Excellent post, Frank. |
|
New member Username: Prego2828Post Number: 7 Registered: Apr-06 | As a final post in my topic. I'm now playing with the Nait5i combo and the Arro's for over a month. The result is simply beautiful. It got better and better ovber the first month. I can only recommend this to everyone who just enjoys music. For Frank: Thanx for the great Advice !!! Cheers, Roy |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3723 Registered: Dec-04 | Thats great Roy! Stu will be sooo jealous.(me too). |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1555 Registered: Sep-04 | LOL, Roy, you're more than welcome and thanks for getting back to us. I just re-read my rather enthusiastic responses. Gosh I'm biased! At least you know why. That combination really is magic. I expect to see your CD player thread in the CD player section in the next few months. Regards, Frank. |
|
New member Username: TonyditoPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 | Hi Frank Abela, I'd acquired Naim Nait5i and I need a pair of floortanding 3-ways speakers. My Budget is 3500-4000USD. I have listen to totem hawk speaker...but bass a bit light for a big room. But not with the nait5i amp set-up though. I also audiotioned Jmlab Electra speakers ($8000). I like the sound produced by Jmlab speakers, warm, precise and clean! Since this pair of Jmlab electra is out of my reach. I'd problably go with with the lower class like new Jmlab Chorus 836V I haven't hear it yet. Jmlab Chorus will be arriving to canada on the first week of september/2006. Can nait5i drives 8ohms speakers loud enough for a big room? There're plenty of 4ohm speakers out there but to much money, like ProAc response, Neat motive 1. I heard 4ohms speakers work better with nait5i (double the power to 100W). Regards, Tony |
|
Bronze Member Username: AsimovPost Number: 12 Registered: May-05 | Dear Frank I wrote to Totem for amp recomendation for Arro. They recomended Unison Unico, Have you ever tried Unico with Arro? Could you please compare Unico with Nait5i. In Semtember06 issue of What Hifi a group test of six int. amp conducted viz Cambridge Azur840A,Cyrus 6vs,Naim Nait5i,Primare I21 & Rksan Kandy LIII. The group test winner is Roksan Kandy LIII and Naim Nait5i got 2nd position. Have you hear this Roksan Kandy? I will be glad to know your thought. Thanks |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1611 Registered: Sep-04 | Tony Focal are just about to launch a completely new range that replaces the Chorus so try to hang on for a little while. I've seen the brochures so I know the range is ready. You do not double the power into 4-ohms. You need double the power to maintain the same voltage across the terminals which is a different thing. 8-ohm speakers are generally a bit easier to drive than 4-ohm speakers because not so much current is required. Asimov, I haven't heard the Unison amps properly so I can't compare for you. As to the Kandy, I don't think it holds a candle to the Naim, but that's just me! regards, Frank. |
|
Silver Member Username: ShahrukhdMumbai, Maharashtra India Post Number: 149 Registered: Nov-04 | Asimov, from the looks of it, it seems WHF has some sort of deal with Roksan.... u know... 5 stars for five ad insertions and stuff ;) The Roksan Kandy in earlier issues was a '4 star' amp with comments like 'pricey' and '...there's better stuff out there for the money'. But of late they're suddenly 'amazing'??!! Kinda makes you think, doesn't it? Has anyone heard the Kandy with KEF's iQ5s?? WHF seems to think it's the ultimate combination!! |
|
Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 951 Registered: Dec-03 | Way to nail 'em, SD. |
|
Silver Member Username: ShahrukhdMumbai, Maharashtra India Post Number: 152 Registered: Nov-04 | It does kinda slap you in the face, doesn't it? And they go on and on about the IAG brands, namely Wharfedale, Mission, Quad etc. |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1622 Registered: Sep-04 | KEF iQ5s...how to be nice about these speakers? Well, they look nice. Their sound is pleasantly inoffensive. er... There's just nothing there! They're mechanical and forced and just plain boring. At least they don't suffer from the B&W 602.5's cabinet colouration, but then the B&W is a bit more lively. (Same price here in the UK) What on earth has happened to the killer $1000 combo? It just doesn't seem to exist any more. Regards, Frank. |
|
Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1383 Registered: Jun-05 | Asimov,one of the most magical combinations,i've every heard were the Arros and the Unico,but remember dont go cheap and go for the Unico Picallo,it wont drive the Arros well and the Unico is better by a signifigant margin.I was a dealer for Totem for 3 years,and the Arros were the speakers that I,chose to own,it took me a while to find a suitable sidekick for the Arros because they are so revealing and such a trickie load,but its one of the most musical setups I've heard bar none. |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- A/V Receivers Forum
- Amps Forum
- Cassette Forum
- CD Players Forum
- CD Recorders Forum
- DAC & Transports Forum
- DVD-Audio & SACD Forum
- Equalizers Forum
- Integrated Amps Forum
- iPod Docks Forum
- MiniDisc Forum
- Mini Systems Forum
- Digital Music Systems Forum
- Phono Forum
- Preamps Forum
- Speakers Forum
- Subwoofers Forum
- Tuners Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics