Would be very interested in your thoughts on the VPI Scout, Rega P7 & Mitchell Gyro SE. All very similary priced and having their own pros & cons.
Having not heard the VPI Scout or Mitchel Gyro SE I'm really curious and would appreciate some forum feedback on these babies. I'm also planning to hopefully have a demo of these soon.
As to the Rega P7 I'm really torn on this one, obviously (I hope) I'm expecting the P7 will have more of everything, soundstage, timing, detail, silent blacks, however would be very disappointed if was only marginally better than my P3.
Unfortunately dealer demos in Brisbane, Australia are impossible and basically you just buy a table based on reputation etc.
None of the hi-fi stores have demos decks of the P5 or Mitchell Gyro. The hi-fi store that has a VPI scout is poorly set-up and very hard to get a reference of how good it really is, infact form the brief demo I had was fairly unimpressive.
As is such, I'm only looking for, if possible, first hand experience or some general thoughts as this would be of great help as I really have no reference here.
Sorry about the wait. I don't know the VPI so I can't comment on that.
The P7 is a fine deck. It's not just a bit better than the P3 - it's heaps better. Far better timing and rhythm with improved dynamics and background silences.
The Michell is also a fabulous deck for the money. I am assuming you're talking about it with Michell's Tecnoarm which works very well in it. It also works well with the RB250/300, but this is not such a happy combination. My feeling is that this is in part due to the far superior cabling that Michell use in the arm (the Incognito cable). The Michell provides a different presentation to the P7. Where the P7 presents a tight, fast, dry picture, the Michell opens up to a looser, wider, more open picture. The Michell has far better resolution, blacker backgrounds, wider dynamics, but doesn't quite have the rhythmic integrity of the P7. The Gyro can be improved in this regard (as well as all others) with its NC power supply which would be a nice upgrade in the future. You can also change the arm for a super-arm such as a SME M2, or IV, or a Wilson benesch ACT0.5 which I have also used successfully with the deck. The P7 can't be upgraded of course.
I have used Michells for over 10 years so this would be my choice, but if you're really after more of the same then the P7 would be a very nice step up. One last thing about the P7 - you can choose it with white or black weights under the platter. I find these weights quite mesmerising (more so than those under the Gyro) and would choose black weights myself.
Thanks for the reply Frank, very helpfull, just what I needed to know regarding the two tables. More a case of different presentations than - one is a better deck than the other.
So with the upgrade to either table, is it fair to expect less surface noise? I'm finding of late I'm noticing more surface noise (pops & crackles) even on brand new clean vinyl. Not sure if its just me being fussier but I'm noticing this a little more, and this is one of the areas I'm hoping will improve.
Also with the weights on the underside of the P7 platter, if specified black, does this also make the platter colour black? Not quite sure how that would look if they where different colours.
Upgrades on the P7 are obviously limited and probably only to tonearm wire. Is an upgrate of this nature common & worthwhile? Something like Nordost etc.
As demos in Brisbane are limited to imposible, infact most dealers here only carry the P3 and nothing above, I'm hopeing to find the time to demo the Mitchell & Rega turntables on an upcoming Sydney trip. If not, I'll probably lean towards the P7 as its more of what I know, which in somes cases is a little dissapointing as the Mitchell & VPI decks I think are interesting alternatives.
It would be worthwhile to audition the VPI Scout if you have a chance. I think it is a special piece of equipment. After auditioning several TTs in its price range, I knew the Scout was for me as soon as I heard it. As you've noted above, it's really a case of presentation and your personal preference. You may not have the same reaction to the VPI, but there's a good chance you'll be impressed. All three TTs you're considering will provide a significant improvement over your current P3. I personally think the Scout is the best of the lot.
If you plan on keeping your current cartridge (which is a very good one), the VPI arm is an excellent match for the Dynavector cart. My initial analogue set-up was the Scout/JMW-9 arm, Dynavector 20xh cart and Dynavector P-75 pre. There was good system synergy.
As far as the surface noise you're hearing, it could be the result of several factors. You'll get a lower noise floor when you upgrade your turntable as a result of better isolation of the motor and lower resonance in the plinth. The type of cartridge/stylus will also influence how much surface noise you hear through your speakers. Cleaning the record can significantly reduce surface noise. If you listen to a lot of vinyl, a vacuum record cleaner is a good investment. Then there are records that are inherently noisy because of poor vinyl quality or bad pressings.
Two Cents makes good points. One reason for more perceived surface noise is very often a worn stylus! Best to check it since it will start damaging records if it is worn.
I am looking at the VPI Scoutmaster as an alternative to my Orbe. Now I love the Orbe and what it does so the Scoutmaster will have to go some to better it. It's definitely worth a listen, given the largely positive reviews of VPIs.
I'm a Michell fan of course. I've used Michells for some years now and I'm only looking at a replacement because I'm in the industry and can afford to take a chance.
I believe the P7 weights would be black and the top of the platter remains white. It makes you less aware of the strobe effect of the weights. I prefer the Gyro for its presentation, but also for other reasons:
1. The Gyro is a beautifuly engineered deck.
2. In many ways its performance is of the next level up to be copared to the P9.
3. Its more upgradeable, being capable of accepting almost any tonearm (not the Dynavector unfortunately - too heavy), and higher quality power supply (bug upgrade).
4. It has a far lower noise floor than the P7.
5. Rega decks rely heavily on their sense of timing. Their presentation has improved to include some tonality but they're not quite out of 'one-trick pony' land yet.
Two cents have you tried or heard the SDS with the Scout? It seems like a much more spohisticated device than the Rega one, I think its a power conditioner & speed controller in one. One thing that the Scout has over the Rega P7 is its upgaradability, which as we all know can get adictive, and its nice to know there is more to come from the turntable.
Frank, Gyro is definately still in the running, I like its upgaradability and its build quality, I just need to have a listen to both the Gyro & Scout and make a decision on what presentaion I like most.
When you say the Rega is a "one- trick pony", what exactly do you mean by that. Good timing and the Rega house sound but lacking lower noise foor, detail & soundstage of other tables like the Scout & Gyro.
It times really well, but that's it. Frequency extremes are limited, resolution isn't the best, soundstage is small (but perfectly formed). This is by comparison to others of course. The thing to remember is I am a Gyro fan so I'm going to pick up on these things. I am also looking to hear a Scoutmaster in the near-ish future so I can't comment there yet.
I personally haven't heard the Scout with the SDS speed controller. It's gotten good reviews, although it seems not as good as the more expensive Walker speed controller. If you upgrade the Scout motor to the 300 rpm motor, you can use the VPI SDS or the Walker or other 3rd party controllers.
The Scout Master comes with the 300 rpm motor among other upgrades. If I were to upgrade, I'd get a Scout Master with the JMW-9 Signature arm. Then think about getting the outer ring clamp and speed controller later. The upgrade path for a VPI table is both an advantage and a curse. Right now, I'm very happy with the relatively modest Scout.
Thanks for the tips. I didn't realise that I needed the 300rpm motor. Indeed is does seem like a slipery and dangerous upgrade slope with VPI, but a rewarding one if you have the funds. I've been waiting 4 days for a reply from my local VPI dealer on this SDS question, so you can see why it so hard to make a decision when you cannot get the correct info from your local dealer or even a properly setup demo.
I think I'll have to make the trip to Sydney to get a properly setup demo & a dealer that knows his product. Its a shame as I know a couple of other very good dealers that offer friendly, informative service in town, that would love to have the VPI range in their shop.
The SDS will work with the stock Scout motor. It's the Walker speed controller that only works with the upgraded motor. Sorry about the confusion.
Your local dealer is late getting back to you probably because VPI is late responding to him. VPI is still a small, family-run business with strange business hours (open only 3 or 4 days a week). You can contact VPI directly by email through their website. They've always returned my emails with helpful responses, though it may take a few days.