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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | Hello All, I am currently trying to decide what type of speaker to get. I have been running AR3's for a few years. My room is 10X10, but I am looking at moving into a house which will more likely be 12x15+. As for a budget, I am looking at spending no more than $3000 on two mains, a center and two surround speakers/monitors. I am sick of tower speakers and do not know if I should go the bookshelf route or the studio monitor route. I want to first decide on my speakers and depending on which ones I get will then look into a preamp/amp or a receiver. Here is a rundown on what I will be using this for: 70% Movies 30% Music (This includes everything except heavy metal) The system I was looking at (let me know what you think) 990 Outlaw Audio PreAmp (2) Mackie HR824 (main) (1) Mackie HR626 (center) (2) Mackie HR624 (surround) 1 JBL Sub (until I get enough cash to get a new one) Would it be better of to go with this or get Home Audio Speakers with B&W (603 S3 I think). Thanks for you advice, Scott |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 42 Registered: Apr-06 | Well first things first, lets discuss studio monitors. They are typically designed strictly for near-field listening, IOW your ears within a few feet of the speakers themselves. While they might sound acceptable for an HT application, it isn't their forte so to speak Now with 3,000 you have a whole lot of options open to you. There is no reason at all why you can't buy a full fledged sound system that sounds great for this price (subwoofer too!). I can give you a few ideas of brands to look at for receivers/speakers/etc, but I can't really tell you what you are going to like, or which are the best for you. Higher end Harman Kardon, Denon, or Marantz receivers would probably give you the best bang for your buck, but there are other higher end brands like NAD or Rotel that are definately worth a look as well. As far as speakers go, there is a plethora to choose from. Klipsch, Paradigm, NHT, Ascend, Onix/Rockets, Energy, Def Tech, etc etc etc all have excellent products within your price bracket that would be worth looking into. A sample system for myself would look something like this: HK DVD-47: $270 HK AVR-445: $800 2 Pair Klipsch RB-61: $900 Klipsch RC-52: $300 HSU-STF 3: $600 Again though, peoples tastes vary. While this would be a good system for me, you might think its crap. I would advise looking into some high end sound shops in your area, and getting an idea of what you like, don't like, etc. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4151 Registered: Mar-05 | Scott, For 70% movies and in a medium sized room you most certainly do NOT need towers, external amps for each speaker, nor do you need to spend 3 grand on the speakers (let alone the whole system) unless you absolutely want to. What you do need are 5 bookshelf speakers that put out ample clarity/detail particularly for the center channel which does 60-80% of the work in most movies, adequate power to run them with a minimum of distortion, and more importantly (assuming that like most people you watch a lot of action/thriller flicks) a strong subwoofer to not only fill in the mid-bass that the bookshelves leave out but also to deliver the deeper bass that you can feel as much as hear. 3 grand would easily cover the 5 speakers, sub, receiver, DVD player, CD player, speaker stands and/or mounts, interconnects/cables, Avia calibration DVD + RadioShack SPL meter, and maybe a dozen DVDs and CDs. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 43 Registered: Apr-06 | And maybe a trip to disney land! Seriously though, get an idea of whats out there. There are a lot of excellent, low priced speakers out there these days. Athena comes to my mind, as does the Onix X-LS, the Paradigm Atom/Titan, etc. Eddie's Ascends are also reputed to be pretty solid on the bang for the buck scale, and are resonably priced. |
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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 | Thank You for you help. I am still looking for even more imput. Here is what I have right now. I feel my speakers are way too big for my room and everything just blends together. I honesetly think it would be more 50/50 movies music if my speakers did not blend together... What I mean by that is the room is just filled with music and it is harsh. Current Setup: Samsung 56" HL-S5687W (on its way) Onkyo TS-DX575 Receiver Samsung HD860 Upconversion DVD Player Acoustic Research AR11 For my main (towers) JBL S Center Speaker JBL L3 surround speakers (towers) JBL PB-10 sub |
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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 3 Registered: Jun-06 | Stephen, What do you consider low price? I want the best I can afford. At 3,000 I would like to purchase 5 total speakers. However, if that 3,000 would get me a great 3 set combo (2 main and one center) I would take that over an average system of 5 speakers with a sub. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4155 Registered: Mar-05 | Scott, Here's what I'd get: CBM-170SEs L/R + CMT-340SE center + HTM-200 surrounds + Hsu VTF-3 sub = $1628 shipped from ascendacoustics.com Harman Kardon 635, $550 shipped from jr.com Denon 2910 universal player, $500 shipped from dbuys.com That's $1778 shipped to your door, leaving you $1222 to fly to Disneyland if desired. : ) (And if you're unhappy with the Denon's CD playback, the NAD c542 dedicated CDP runs $400-500 locally.) |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 44 Registered: Apr-06 | By low price I'm talking about 150-200 a pair for bookshelf speakers. And no, I'm not talking about your average junk in Best Buy or anything either (albeit Athena's good stuff used to be sold there). Budget speakers have come a long long ways in the past few years. Things like Paradigm Atoms, and Athena speakers are somehow making their way onto the pages of Stereophile magazine among others as being pretty darned good, especially when price is factored in. Now I'm not suggesting that you slum it either, but keep it in mind that you might not be giving up as much as you think by going with a less expensive speaker. Either way, I can give you a few speakers to look at in various price ranges, and let you mull it over as to what you want to do with your system. I can also clue you in onto what receivers might be worth looking at. Receivers: Marantz SR 5600 (599), SR 7500 (999); Harman Kardon AVR 340 (499) AVR 445 (799) AVR 645 (999); Denon 3806 (1299, probably could be found for cheaper). Every single one of these receivers listed is of fairly high quality, and you won't really go wrong with them. The only thing that would really give you significantly better performance in this area is if you made the jump to seperates, which is a bit out of the price envelope we're working in. The differences between the lower priced models and the higher priced is simple, features and power output. Decide what you want/need in terms of features, but I wouldn't worry a whole lot about power output unless you get some really difficult to drive speakers, in which case a more robust power supply would be needed. But, even the cheapest HK on the list will drive fairly difficult loads without too much problem. Anyways, next item on the list, subwoofers!!! In terms of bang for the buck, and your room size, the HSU STF-3 (www.hsuresearch.com) is hard to beat, but SVS (www.svsubwoofers.com) makes a few models that might interest you, as does Velodyne, Onix/Rockets, and various other manufacturers. Now down to the nitty gritty, speaker selection. This is probably the most contentious area of system selection, although I'm sure I'll get flamed for my receiver selection or something too... In any event, things that come to mind in the lower priced arena (100-250/pr) is the Paradigm Titan (249) and Atom (219), the Athena AB1.2 (120), the AB2.2 (250), and the Onix X-LS (199). In the midpriced arena (250-450/pr) is the Ascend CBM-170 (348), the Paradigm Mini-Monitor (429) Focus (350), B&W DM600 S3 ($350) B&W DM601 S3 ($450), and various speakers by Energy, Klipsch, etc. If you want to get into the mid-high priced arena, let me know, and I'll keep yappin. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 46 Registered: Apr-06 | Some funny math going on there Eddie :P |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4158 Registered: Mar-05 | Yikes, my total above was off by about $900, adding up to $2678 ... LOL! Well, $322 should pay for a bus ticket and a few nights at a Motel 6, heh. |
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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 4 Registered: Jun-06 | I would like a few options from the mid-high range. I am looking into the Ascend and B&W. I hope there is a store in Orlando that will have these. I would much rather listen to them before purchasing. Thanks, Scott |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 49 Registered: Apr-06 | Ascend is an internet only company, but they do have a respectable return policy. Same goes for Onix/Rockets, HSU, and SVS. In the higher end bracket you have things like the Paradigm Studio 20s (850/pr), my choice the Alegria Audio Emma's (699/pr, very limited stocks due to cabinet supply problems currently though), Vandersteen Model 1C (850/pr), Polk LSi 9 (1000), Polk LSi 7 (~750), and upper end stuff from Energy, Klipsch, NHT, Definitive Technology (they make some decent powered monitors that need no sub) etc. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4162 Registered: Mar-05 | Scott, use this webpage to contact some Ascend owners close by who'll be happy to let you come listen: http://www.frappr.com/ascendacousticsowners |
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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-06 | Eddie, Thanks for that link. I'll have to contact Mike in Orlando and go check them out. Also, I spoke with my cousin and he told me to check out Adam-Audio. Have you ever heard of these? |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 50 Registered: Apr-06 | Not familiar with them myself, but there are hundreds of brands out there. There is no harm in listening either way though. Worst that could happen is you could say "these suck" |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4165 Registered: Mar-05 | Never heard of them either. |
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Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 21 Registered: May-06 | Scott Vahl, Here are two systems around your budgeted price including an SVS sub with each (PB-10 -Onix Rocket RS250 MKII (front L/R) -Onix Rocket RSC200 (center) -Onix Rocket RS250 MKII (surround L/R) Here is a brand new Boston Acoustic amp on clearance at onecall.com http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=26578&FEID=191&PMNID=416&ASaP=1&sr ccode=cii_14110944&cpncode=07-8893400-2 You have to realize only the newest $1000-1500 receivers pump out close to 100 watts per channel RMS in a 5.1 set-up. And most people would agree power amps clearly sound richer/fuller than most all receivers while listening to multi-channel audio (DD, DTS, PLllx, and of course DVD-Audio). -Michael |
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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-06 | Michael, Thank You for your advice. I went to a local Paradigm dealer and listened to the Studio 20's. I have found my mains. Why would you recommend the 20's for surround vs the ADP470's? Also I am very naive in the receiver/amp deal. I am running an Onkyo 75 watt that is old. Do I need to replace it, or should I just get an amp. What does an amp do that a receiver can not?? Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 33 Registered: May-06 | Scott, I personally liked the sound of 20's as surrounds (vs the 470's) while demoing a few DVD-Audio discs/DTS concerts. It was more of a toss-up during movies...but I love music. Since your fairly new to receivers, I would recommend one that has an auto-setup routine (most new models do). Back in the old days, in order to get the best sound, you would have to set individual speaker distances, levels (volume/loudness), speaker size (measured by bass frequency response, not actual speaker size), and good luck EQ'ing them. Now days, you simply set the supplied microphone at your listening position and press a few buttons. Of course you want the room silent (no ambient noise) while this is happening. You'll hear a variety of sounds coming from each speaker as the receiver is calibrating everything mentioned above. Most of them work pretty good and you can nearly always tweak the calibrated settings to your liking. The only thing that they sometims mess up on is speaker size (bass response). Example: If it set your Paradigm 20s to large, they would receive a full range audio signal of say...15Hz-20Khz. Of course your 20's are only good for around 50Hz on the low end. Sending it a lower signal that it can reproduce will cause distortion and I think if you had enough watts it could harm the mid-bass drivers (woofers). But the speaker size settings are easily changed. What an amp does is supply massive amounts of clean, high-current power. When watching a movie or listening to music in 5.1, your speakers will never be starved for power during sonically demanding scenes/passages. It will make your Paradigms sound as great as they can possibly sound. To use a power amp you also need a pre-amp, or you can use a receiver as a pre-amp. -A power amp just delivers the power needed to drive the speakers. Most current multi-channel power amps deliver 120+ watts of continuous, high current power per channel. -A pre-amp or processor, is basically a receiver with no power supply. It does everything a receiver will do, but has no power. And because it has no power supply, there is no electrical interference and thus, a cleaner signal. Designed to be used with a power amp for the best sound possible. CONs: they're expensive and are not updated as often as receivers (ie. auto setup). -A receiver of course combines the two above. Though by combining, you lose the massive power of a power amp and the sonic purity of a pre-amp/processor. Most receivers can also be used as a pre-amp/processor. Speaking of which, what was the dealer powering them with? A receiver or power amp combo? Did you listen to them in a 5.1 setup? By the way, your onkyo probably puts out 40 watts continuous per channel if it's lucky. Some options are: $500ish Harman Kardon 635 (75 watts per channel) $850ish Denon 3806 (108 watts per channel) $950ish Harman Kardon 235 or 335 from the Harman direct store on ebay (full warranty) and a power amp from audiogon/videogon or the Boston acoustics on onecall.com (120+ watts per channel) The Paradigms are rated 150 watts per channel. -Michael |
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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 7 Registered: Jun-06 | The dealer was using a Mcintosh Amp with a recevier. I did not get to hear the 20's in a surround sound setting. How hard would I have to play the 20's to blow the speaker or wreck the voicecoil using the Denon 3806. How many differnet amps shoud I have. Do I need 5 at 120 or can I get a 2 channel one and run the center and rears off of the receiver? Can I use my current Onkyo as a Pre and just buy an Outaw Amp? Which one should I get?? The 5 x 125? Or should I have more power? Thanks |
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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 8 Registered: Jun-06 | I just purchaseed the 7x125 amp from Outlaw Audio. I will see how this will work with my current 40watt (75w Onkyo). I will let you know what happens. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4200 Registered: Mar-05 | so Scott have you had a chance to hear the Ascends yet? |
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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 9 Registered: Jun-06 | Eddie, I have not I am heading out of town for a week, but will get a hold of Mike when I return. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4203 Registered: Mar-05 | ok, just wanted to make sure you won't be rushing into a purchase BEFORE hearing them first. ; ) |
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New member Username: KeebselfPost Number: 10 Registered: Jun-06 | I am going to go ahead and purchase a preamp as well. What do you recommend? I was looking at Outlaw, but I am not sure if there is better to be had at the 1000.00 price range. I want to see what affect these new separates have on my current speakers. Before dropping another 2-3k on new ones. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4207 Registered: Mar-05 | With your 70% HT usage I would not spend $1K on a pre-amp, just a modest $300-500 AVR that has pre-outs ... the HK 235/240, Marantz 5400, or Yamaha RXV-657/757, heck maybe even your current Onkyo. I'm curious to hear how the new Outlaw amp improves your SQ though. |