Rega Planar 3 - Turntable running slow
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Bob Lenney Unregistered guest | After many years of good service, suddenly the platterruns very slow. I have replaced belt, but once the platter is in place, the speed at 33 or 45 is about 2/3 of what it should be. Any thoughts or help will be appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1842 Registered: Dec-03 | It could be the motor pulley wheel slipping in the spindle, see Av forum post. It should be easy to check. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1846 Registered: Dec-03 | Bob, Have you heard or read any opinions on the Rega Planar 2 and 3 upgrade kit? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Bob - Take a cotton swab dipped in Ispropyl Alcohol and clean the pulley and the rim of the platter. Make certain you don't leave any lint on the pulley. Take some baby powder and coat the belt lightly. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1856 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, I have now graduated to playing with the dust cover removed completely. Even better. I catch up, eventually. Bob, Please let is know what happens. Hope you fix it. I would be interested to know how. This thread prompted me to look at the literature on the tonearms. Is the RB300 a real improvement over the original (which I have)? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | John A. - Is DVD-A an improvement over Elcassette? The RB300 is a wonderful arm that gets put on every recommended components/best buy list I have seen. Some people like the RB200 for its simplicity but it is a personal choice as to which you will prefer. Both arms, and especially the RB300 are marvels of manufacturing. Considering when they were first introduced they broke the molds for how to make a simple, effective arm. It takes quite a bit to better the Rega arms and when you trick them out with the upgrades that are available you can turn a rather inexpensive arm into a real killer for much less than you can buy a superior arm. I've used the RB300 since 1984 and am always amazed at the sonics of the arm. I don't remember which Ortofon you use. If it is the OMS30 it is not the best match for the Rega arms, if it is the VMS30 it matches better but that is now a 30+ year old design. I used a VMS and an OMS back when I still had an Infinity Black widow tonearm. It was ultra low mass, knife edge bearings that the Ortofons were quite happy in. The Regas like a slightly stiffer cartridge than the VMS and a higher mass cartridge than an OMS. I would steer you to a Grado or a Shure V15 among my first choices. The site Kegger linked to for his tube amp on "Twilight ..." has both arms on sale used at a good price. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://www.rega.co.uk/html/tonearm.htm Try that one, Tonto. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | http://www.savantaudio.com/savant4.html#Tonearms One more. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1865 Registered: Dec-03 | Masked man, Many thanks! I am so pleased with my old standard Rega Planar 3 (now "new" - with the lid off) it is about the last thing in my system I wish to fiddle with. However, there is nothing that cannot be improved. I will look into this, and check local prices. My cartridge (original) is the Ortofon VMS 30 Mk. III. As you will predict, I am not swayed by "that is now a 30+ year old design", and neither, I suspect, are you. But all comments are very welcome. I was always aware the original S-shaped original tonearm with its detachable headshell was a "cheap and cheerful" solution, but the whole thing still sounds marvellous. I have written before about the hi-tech piece of junk my Rega replaced, after about 3 months of a very unhappy relationship. Why on earth did vinyl LP get supplanted by CD? It superiority, for sound, is there for anyone to hear. Only DVD-A (and opening the lid) has made me listen carefully, again, to CD. We were all duped!!! "Is DVD-A an improvement over Elcassette?" Sorry, Jan, you've got me, there. Is "Elcassete" a format I never heard of whilst I was asleep, for 16 years, listening to CDs.....?! Thanks for the links. I cannot make sense of the Savant Audio page. I will work on it. Thanks, again. All the best. PS How about that "upgrade kit"? It is a motor replacement. Any views? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1867 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, I think I will pay these guys a visit, eventually: http://www.walrus.co.uk/vinyl/rega.htm Click "Back", and look at their stock of turntables and amps.... Jeez, it will be good to get back to blighty. If you'd ever like to visit, take care to get Silver his rabies shots, first. |
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Unregistered guest | Similar slow running of little used 20 yr Rega 3 t/table...seems quite a resistance to rotation in the platter....Can the central spindle bearing get "dry"..does it require maintenance ...? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2194 Registered: Dec-03 | You can lift out the main bearing, just withdrawing the spindle from its shaft. It requires some firm upward pressure since the tolerances are so tight. Take care not to scratch or mark it, it is soft metal. I lubricated the bearing shaft with new, clean, bicycle grease some years ago. But Rega sells oil especially for the purpose. The spindle, back in place, takes some time to lower into place; putting the platter back on top, and watching the bearing seat itself, under gravity, takes a few minutes. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 71 Registered: Sep-04 | Most of the time, the platter will run slow because the wheel on the motor spindle has come unstuck and is slipping. To fix, take one tiny drop of superglue and apply appropriately. It's that easy. The motor upgrade improves the deck's pitch stability quite a bit. It's also meant to improve noise, although I haven't observed this myself to be honest (whereas I have noticed the pitch stability improvements). The motor upgrade is no joke - it really improves the deck substantially. I don't subscribe to putting talc on the belt. I would worry that it would work its way into the motor. The bearing does need servicing occasionally (every few years). We recently had a customer bring in his 20-year old Rega Planar 3 and it was running on a dry bearing. Do NOT use bicycle grease! Use Hypoid gear oil or get Rega's (which is also hypoid gear oil) if you're not sure how much to use. The R200 was a good arm of its day, but the RB300 remains a masterpiece of engineering which is why it is OEM'd by so many manufacturers, such is its mechanical integrity. The 300 also benefits over the 200 for its better wiring. However, if you really want to see what an RB300 can do, have a look at getting it rewired with Incognito armwire. This makes a massive difference although the Incognito kit is more than half the price of a brand new Rega arm! There are also other aftermarket add-ons you can do to the arm such as special counterweights from the likes of Michell and Origin Live. These are meant to improve the arm no end but I haven't heard them. I tend to prefer to play the P3 with the lid closed nowadays. I just feel it gives a tighter, faster presentation with a little less noise. regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2217 Registered: Dec-03 | That's a goldmine of good advice, Frank. Many thanks. I find my wall-mounted Planar 3 suffers from feedback, with the lid closed, from loudspeakers in the same room, but the problem is with the wall, not the turntable. On remote speakers you can even hear vibration from a washing machine in a room adjacent to the turntable; it is a naff wall. I shall look into the motor upgrade and an RB300, in the New Year. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2228 Registered: Dec-03 | Frank, You wrote The motor upgrade improves the deck's pitch stability quite a bit. Do you happen to know whether the motor upgrade has any effect on the playing speed? The original Planar 3 runs fast, almost a semitone up in pitch. On mine, pitch is stable, but higher than it should be. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 87 Registered: Sep-04 | John This is news to me. I don't believe the P3 should run fast at all. I'd get this checked by a dealer if this is the case. Regards, Frank. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Almost every review I have read of the Regas is clear to state that all their tables run about 1% fast. It is often attributed to giving them their more lively sound and is not a problem if the listener is not sensitive to pitch. I believe Rega has been confronted with this problem and said there is no solution if you want their table other than a costly motor control device. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2231 Registered: Dec-03 | Frank, J. Vigne is correct. Running just a little fast certainly is, or at least was, a feature of the Planar 3. The dealer from whom I bought mine pointed this out to me. It is not a problem. I only become aware of it when I hear a recognisable LP track played on the radio, or from a CD version, when I hear at once that I am accustomed to hearing it a little sharp in pitch. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 96 Registered: Sep-04 | I'll have to check up on this. Regards, Frank. |
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Unregistered guest | Isn't there a single ballbearing at the bottom of the REGA platter shaft? These can go missing on second hand trades (mine did). Does anyone know the diameter of this ball? |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 147 Registered: Sep-04 | No I don't but you can't just replace that bearing with any old bearing of the same size. Rega have those ball bearings made especially for them. They're made to fine tolerances. You can order a Rega bearing from any Rega dealer. I still haven't checked on the speed thing....damn! Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2419 Registered: Dec-03 | Frank, Still reading, and interested in the speed thing. If and when you hear anything... |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 177 Registered: Sep-04 | Well, I asked a colleague about this and he said that he remembered fusing a strobe disc and confirmed that it ran very slightly fast. Allegedly it's so slight that you shouldn't be able to hear it, although if you have perfect pitch, you would be able to hear the difference. At least this was true on a P3. Well I'll be damned.... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2442 Registered: Dec-03 | Frank, You do not need perfect pitch. Anyone can hear a 1 % change in frequency. Try a tone generator at, say 440 Hz (modern concert a) and then 444.4 Hz. There are many freeware tone generators for computers. You will hear it. Anyone who tunes a stringed instrument will be accustomed to resolving that kind of difference in pitch. If in doubt, play the tones together, and hear the beats at 4.4 Hz. Anyone, Rega Planar 3 runs fast. A simple fix. Yesterday I timed my 1979 Rega Planar 3. 100 revolutions took 178.96 seconds. That is 33.527 r.p.m. Which is 0.6 % fast. The bearing has a pulley diameter which is a little over 10 cm. So I bought some plastic insulating tape (black). The label says its thickness is 0.15 mm. I wrapped three complete layers, with no gaps or overlaps, around the pulley. That should increase the diameter by 0.9 mm. That is a 0.9 % increase, which should slow the platter by 0.9 %, for the same motor speed. Now 100 revolutions takes 179.1 seconds. That is 33.443 r.p.m. Now, the maths do not add up; that is still 0.3 % fast. But it is probably within the error of my timings with a stopwatch, and I do not know the tolerance of the stated tape thickness. My timings were with no record tracking. Probably the force of the stylus will slow the turntable a little more. Anyway, I did some A/B comparisons of LP and CD issues of the same material, and the pitch difference that I noticed previously (LP a fraction of a tone sharp) has disappeared. Much better. So I do not feel inclined to add further layers of tape Simple, cheap. No side effects. Also reversible. Unless the tape, when removed, leaves sticky stuff on the wheel. Any increased tension on the pulley belt or bearing must be negligible compared with moving over to the larger motor pulley wheel for 45 r.p.m. I would still be interested to know if the replacement motor has any effect on pitch. If it does, I may one day have to take the tape off again. It should be possible to clean any adhesive off the pulley. Insulating tape does no usually bond so strongly on plastic. BTW the LP (CBS 1979) sounded better, to me, than the ADD CD transfer (Sony 1990) of the same recording. This is with a "bog standard" 1979 P3 with original tonearm and original Ortofon VMS 30/III cartridge. This is another question, for another thread. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2443 Registered: Dec-03 | Sorry, typo. After applying the tape:- "Now 100 revolutions takes 179.1 seconds." should read Now 100 revolutions takes 179.41 seconds." The calculated speed of 33.442 r.p.m. remains, and is now correct. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 183 Registered: Sep-04 | John DVD soundtracks run 4% fast in the UK - nobody notices... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2448 Registered: Dec-03 | Frank, What all...? Surely not. How could this come about? It is not a subtle difference. And it must be the whole DVD, not just the soundtrack! Best, John |
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New member Username: Mike_wPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-04 | I have an old Planar 3 that I bought second hand and don't know whether it has enough oil in the bearing or if the oil it does have is the correct oil - I have no idea what the previous owner has done. The bearing certainly seems to be quiet and healthy, but I'd be happier replacing the oil and knowing what is in there. Do I need to add a certain amount of oil or can I just over-fill then clean up the spillage after inserting and removing the spindle shaft? John, didn't adding the tape to your sub-platter introduce some wow? If not, how did you manage to get a perfectly uniform layer of tape? Insulation tape is very stretchy and and I would have thought that controlling the thickness would be incredibly difficult if not impossible. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2453 Registered: Dec-03 | Mike, About 8 years ago I put in around 5 - 10 ml - a guess - of good quality but simple bicycle grease, from a clean, newly-opened plastic bottle. I just guessed how much would half fill it. As with bikes, I think you do not pack bearings completely. Bicycle grease is not recommended on this forum, however, or by Rega, and I now see Rega supply recommended grease/oil. I did not know that at the time. Nevertheless it works fine. I would take care not overfill it. Equally, "if it works, don't fix it". I thought I had rumble but it was probably the source. On many analogue LPs you can hear the rumble of the tape recorder they used. I have no audible rumble at at all. I measured the tape. I think 32.2 cm was the final answer. First off, I multiplied 10 cm by pi but it was about 8 mm too short. Tape usually comes in at least 10 m rolls so you can afford to have a few goes until you get it right. The too-short piece peeled off leaving nothing behind. No gaps; no overlaps. It was not difficult. Each layer, I put the "join" in a different place. You bought a great piece of equipment. Timeless design. They upgraded the tonearm (from "S"-shaped to straight) in around 1983. I have the original. It is OK. I may try the RB 300 (see above) when I have some money to spend, but I have absolutely no problems. |
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New member Username: Mike_wPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-04 | Thanks John, Hmmm... calculated the circumference and measured the length. That is far too obvious for me, I would never have thought of it. I agree that normally 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', but this is a twenty year old turntable with an unknown history... and waiting for a bearing to become noisy before checking it doesn't seem quite right somehow. I have some 80 hypoid gear oil in the shed and thought that I may as well clean the old oil out and replace it. I just need to know when to stop. Is there a problem with over-filling? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2457 Registered: Dec-03 | Mike, I know it does not come easy, but there are always cases where "some" has to be good enough. Well, better than "none". I would take care not to overfill it, myself. It is a precision bearing, as you will see from the resistance to pulling the shaft out. Avoid scratching it and getting any form of dust or anything solid in there. Which tonearm does it have? Hey, let us know how it goes! |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 187 Registered: Sep-04 | John Yep ... all. Here's the reason. Film runs at 25 fps but PAL runs at 24 fps. So, the DVDs are mastered with 1 frame in 25 whipped out. The soundtrack is then speeded up by 4% to fit exactly into the 24fps rate. I believe NTSC runs at 25 fps by some lucky coincidence so it doesn't suffer the problem. Rega bearing - according to the Rega website: Q How do I know, if I should, re-lubricate the bearing? A Lift sub platter 2 cm out of housing to inspect. Oil will be present on top of brass housing if the turntable has been upside down. Q What oil should I use? A To re-oil your turntable bearing please do not use just any old lubricant - sewing machine lubricant is often used - PLEASE DO NOT USE IT! this will cause no end of trouble to your turntable. Simply, go to your dealer and they will supply you with the correct oil and how to apply it. Or, it might be just as well to book your turntable in for a service. Your local dealer can provide this. I talked to the guys at the shop and they say customers should not do this. Rega supplies the dealer with a dispenser which has a specific 'drop rate'. With that dispenser there's a specific number of drops for the job. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2458 Registered: Dec-03 | Frank, Thanks. This is nerdishness beyond anything, but I propose to try a PAL DVD at the weekend and see if the music is at advertised pitch. Mike and others will be well advised to heed your advice, and Rega's. I am still on "it works; don't fix it". I do not recommend bicycle grease, but it seemed to me the ball race in a bicycle hub is not so different, and I am miles, and decades, from any Rega dealer. Also, there was no Rega web site when I did my greasing. It sounds great. No problem. When I get back to civilization, I might ask about a refurb. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 189 Registered: Sep-04 | John It's crazy isn't it? (The pitch thing). The oil is supplied to us by Rega, but it looks like Hypoid gear oil. With the Rega dispenser we put in just 4 drops of oil but as I said, it's a special dispenser - they might be small drops or big drops! Also, I believe the oil in the P9 may be different to that in the P3! Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2460 Registered: Dec-03 | Frank, I suspend judgement on the pitch question; will report back! If I were Mike I would use Hypoid, but get a new, clean pack. If his shed is anything like mine... I would also prefer to use the Rega oil, but what is their mark-up? They do not MAKE oil, I suspect. Just as long as the bottle does not carry "THX™"..... |
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New member Username: Mike_wPost Number: 3 Registered: Nov-04 | I'm also miles (thousands... well, hundreds anyway) from any Rega dealer, but I'm only as far as the internet away really. My problem is actually that I'm too mean to pay hi-fi dealer prices for something that I suspect also comes out of the container (new, unbroken seal John) in my shed. Lifting the sub-platter and checking the top of the bearing housing for oil doesn't reassure me that oil hasn't been lost and cleaned up at some time in the past. I think surface tension controls drop size rather than the dropper - hang on, perhaps not... now that I think of it a small dropper has less surface for the drop to hang from so the drop would 'drop' at a lighter weight and therefore a smaller size. But I still can't see a problem with overfilling. It's not a closed bearing that needs a certain amount of airspace to allow for expansion, it's open at the top so there's no problem with hydraulic pressures on the bearing or housing. And there's nothing in there that will be damaged by coming into contact with oil. I've talked myself into giving it a try - I was probably just looking for someone to tell me what I wanted to hear anyway. Now you've deprived me of someone (other than me) to blame when my tt self-destructs. Thanks for the info Frank, I haven't completely disregarded it I promise. By the way John, just to take you up on a previous point, I bet you would need perfect pitch to tell the difference. Only people with perfect pitch would be able to tell that a soundtrack that is 1% (or even 4%) out was not accurate, unless they were able to do an A/B comparison. Most of us mortals judge accuracy on intervals rather than notes and if the intervals are correct, ie. everything has been shifted proportionately then we won't notice the change - unless it's a large one. I might have a listen to a DVD too. We use PAL here (Tasmania) and I have some soundtracks on LP to compare with - although I do use a Planar 3 which also runs fast... looks like the fast running Planar 3s might be the result of a conspiracy to prevent us from discovering that they've reduced the raw material in our DVDs by 4% and are still charging full price. My Rega has the RB300 arm John. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | Here's my two pennies worth. If you over fill the bearing housing with oil and let it spill over the top of the plinth when you drop the bearing and platter down, you will regret your lack of planning. Any oil thick enough to work in the bearing will be a pain in the plinth to clean off the surface. You will be there hours trying to get the mess cleaned up. Try this instead. As Frank suggested use about four drops (large or small) and then drop the bearing and platter in place. After the platter has settled into position, pull the bearing back out and use it as a dipstick. If the oil is not up to the top 3/4 of the bearing, at least, add another drop of lubricant and repeat the procedure. You will arrive at the proper amount in less time than it would take you to clean the spillage otherwise. If you are afraid Rega might make $1.50 profit on your purchase of their lubricant, go get your own from a hardware store. Use either a medium weight silicone or a Teflon based lubricant. They will probably sound better than the stock oil. If they don't you can clean them out with alchohol and a Q-tip and replace with another lubricant of your choice. |
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New member Username: Mike_wPost Number: 4 Registered: Nov-04 | Another idea that is so obviously straightforward, right and logical that I would never have thought of it. Thanks J. I'll do exactly that. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 194 Registered: Sep-04 | ARGH! No, do not fill the bearing that much! Just put in 4 drops of oil and leave it. Better less than more. regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2462 Registered: Dec-03 | I more or less did what J. suggested, but with unapproved grease. "Less" is erring on the side of caution. There is no loss to replace: no dropping, burning, or evaporation. I am doubtful if mine ever needed the lubrication I gave it. As regards speed, I am at the moment on five layers of 0.15 mm insulating tape. This gives timed 33.346 r.p.m. which is 0.05% slow, but exactly the right speed according the stroboscope obtained by viewing the dots around a Meridian LP label under a tungsten filament lamp. Before, these always revealed the platter running fast, in agreement with what I heard. But who knows the accuracy of the quoted 50 Hz of my mains supply. I disagree, Mike, about speed and pitch. One can hear 1 % and definitely 4 %, which is nearly a quarter tone. But it is true that small departure from 33 1/3 r.p.m. may go unnoticed and, if so, is nothing to worry about, provided the speed is constant. They are still brilliant turntables. I wonder how they managed to get the speed slightly too high. Even I would not buy a "conspiracy theory" about keeping up with video! I have 1979 BBC/Pye LP stereo test disc. I will check the spot frequencies with a computer pitch meter at the weekend, as with some DVDs. Will write some more about this. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2463 Registered: Dec-03 | "which is 0.05% slow" Sorry, read "which is 0.05% fast". No-one will hear, or ever be worried by that, I am sure. Strobes were on most turntables, once upon a time. Rega were right not to waste time and money on those. |
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New member Username: Mike_wPost Number: 5 Registered: Nov-04 | We'll have to agree to disagree on the pitch thing I think John. I wasn't saying that you can't hear a 1% difference, what I was saying was that you wouldn't know that even a 4% change was different without the original to compare with. With the original and the altered both available for comparison of course the difference is apparent. Just a note on strobes. There used to be, in this country anyway, in the legislation that controlled AC power generation, a requirement that electricity authorities generate 6,480,000 cycles per calendar day (50hz), it didn't matter when or how that was achieved as long as it was achieved. So if the electricity authority or company had been inaccurate on any particular day and was not going to meet the requirement they had to speed up or slow down generation to meet their target before the end of the day. AC driven clocks which would have been incorrect in proportion to the inaccuracy of the cycle generation so far that day would speed up or slow down to correct themselves, but things like AC synchronous turntables that don't give a toss about how many cycles have been generated so far would be inaccurate during the adjustment period, which, I think, was the hour between 23:00 and 24:00 local time, but could be any period, even the last few minutes, before the deadline. Obviously power plants these days which are computer controlled and synched to atomic clocks would never vary measurably and the adjustment period would be little more than an anachronism, but I bet it still exists in the legislation. |
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New member Username: Mike_wPost Number: 6 Registered: Nov-04 | Whoops, my maths is a bit shaky. Make that 4,320,000 cycles / day. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2467 Registered: Dec-03 | Mike, Thanks for the note on strobes. I never knew that. I makes some sense, I suppose, so that timing devices did not eventually begin to get the date wrong, too. Where I live (Sweden, but soon to move) they upgraded the grid from 220 to 240 V about twelve years ago, but many makers did not change. So the average life of a light bulb here still seems to be about four weeks. you wouldn't know that even a 4% change was different without the original to compare with Agreed. But the closet approach to the original is what I am after, personally. I wonder if Rega chose to make the Planar 3 run fast, or if the specified tolerances just happen to produce a drive wheel that is 1.5 mm less, in diameter, than it should be. BTW a few years after I bought the Rega, there was a forty-something part BBC radio serialization of The Lord of the Rings (I am darned sure Peter Jackson heard it, too; I think he said so). I heard the signature tune of that many times. It was when I bought the LP that I first noticed I could hear the LP was sharp compared with the radio broadscast. It was obvious; one did not need to do an A/B comparison. Somehow the memory of the exact pitch must have stayed with me. I do not have "perfect pitch" in the sense of absolute pitch. Very few people do. My motto , to add to deep insights such as "if it works, don't fix it", is "one might as well get it right". If it were me, I'd use the hypoid out of the shed, having checked, first, that the specified viscosity is correct. |
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Unregistered guest | I have a variation on the original posting of this thread - my 22 year old Rega Planar 3 has not only decided to slow down, but it stops and then goes backwards! I admit never having it serviced and it doesn't get used as much as it used to, ...but such rebellion! Any-one heard of such a thing? Is there a solution? Any assistance appreciated. |
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New member Username: Mike_wPost Number: 7 Registered: Nov-04 | Hey Brian You're winding the rubber band the wrong way. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2553 Registered: Dec-03 | Mike, Is it true the platter rotates anticlockwise in the Southern Hemisphere? Still checking out frequency of DVDs etc. More to follow. Five layer of tape is optimal and has no undesirable side effects. Yet. |
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New member Username: Mike_wPost Number: 8 Registered: Nov-04 | Yes John but it's bloody hard on stylii. They tell me that if you play "Paul is Dead" backwards, you get a song called "I am the Walrus"... sounds a bit far-fetched to me. I thought Frank was having a lend of us, but I checked the PAL standard anyway and it's 25 fps, so the only thing that's 4% fast is Frank's imagination. Haven't tried the tape yet, but I'll give it a go. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2556 Registered: Dec-03 | Mike, It was bog standard insulating tape which the label said was 0.15 mm thick. Cut it to the correct width before applying it to the drive pulley; I found it difficult to trim once it was on. Yes, I am one of the nuts who thinks he can hear a song called "I am the Walrus". I admit it does not make much sense. You would not believe the strange lead-in track to "life the in day A". Still, down under C&W must be quite up-beat: you get your wife back; you get your car back; you get your dog back; etc. |
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Samoz Unregistered guest | Hi, I have a Planar 3 for about 12yrs now and it has been sitting in its box for the past few years on its side, due to moving places several times internationally, now in Oz. Should I be thinking about re-oiling the bearing? The last time I had it out of the box the pully was actually slipping and thought about using araldite but the answer has been given above. Thanks. The other thing was the drive rubber belt had actually harden and that needs to be replaced. Any idea who can supply a replacement by post. Its about 40aud here. I thought that is a tiny bit on the expensive side for a rubber band. Long time ago I was into air-rifles the spring has to be grease with Molydenum due to its high lubricating properties. Won't this be better than the old chain grease? |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 243 Registered: Sep-04 | Mike My imagination was only slightly off. In fact, it's film which runs at 24 fps worldwide and PAL which is 25fps. DVDs are simply played slightly fast at 25fps, hence the 4% discrepancy. Here's a description of what's going on: http://www.nattress.com/standardsConversionTechInfo.htm where the following paragraphs are most interesting: PAL (25fps) is normally converted to Film (24fps) by slowing down the video by about 4% to make it run at 24fps, and printing each frame of video to a frame of film. The reverse conversion is done by speeding up the film about 4% and matching so that it's now running at 25fp and printing each frame of film to video. these methods provide a very high standard of conversion, but the 4% speed up or down means that the audio must also be adjusted to match, and the running time of the finished programme will be slightly different. This has often caused confusion to PAL movie viewers who thought that their DVD or VHS copy of the movie was cut by a few minutes compared to the cinema version. This was not the case - it's just that the movie runs 4% fast on video because of the conversion method. Another method of converting PAL to and from film involves no speed up, but uses the addition or subtraction of 1 frame every second to make up for the 24fps to 25fps difference. This method preserved timings, but will introduce a "jump" in the video every second when the extra frame is added in as a duplication of the previous frame. On talking heads shots, this is barely noticible, but on action it looks really bad. A variant on this adds or subracts 1 field every half second. This involves more complicated processing to make sure the field ordering remains correct, but produces a much smoother result that is very acceptable. Or for an easier explanation: http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/PALSpeedUp/PALSpeedUp.asp Regards, Frank - imagining less successfully that he was a millionaire... |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2605 Registered: Dec-03 | Frank, "...'but the 4% speed up or down means that the audio must also be adjusted to match,'..." If I undersand correctly, first the video is slowed down by 4 %, then the slowed copy is speeded up by the same amount. This will give the original rate. So I do not see where the pitch change comes from, or why the running time is different. |
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New member Username: Mike_wPost Number: 9 Registered: Nov-04 | Thanks Frank, I apologise for thinking that your tongue was in your cheek, although I still find it hard to believe that an industry that sticks to 'standards' so rigidly can all of a sudden let one slide for the sake of convenience and actually change the timing of film. Still, as I said before that unless you have a comparison at hand or the benefit (curse?) of perfect pitch you wouldn't know the difference so I guess it doesn't matter. I've learned something, thank you. John, Frank was saying that to go from film to PAL you speed up by 4% and to go from PAL to film you slow down by 4%... not all in the one operation. So that PAL video that we watch that has been converted from film is actually running 4% faster than the film it came from (25/24) - which is what he said originally, just in a different way... I think. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 2609 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Mike! I can see that with the second method, but not the first. I'll read Frank's post again and think about it. It could be me. Often is. I shall ll also try some PAL discs with a tuning fork and a pitch meter. How nerdy is that? |
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Headplant Dave H Unregistered guest | Brian Humphreys, YES! I am in Melbourne, have had my Rega Planar 3 in storage for around 8 years ... mine does exactly the same as yours. Plays a little slow and slightly flutterey at first, then slows down and begins to play backwards. I believe it is probably a problem with the motor bearing, as running the motor without the belt connected has the same observed result. I suspect it is temperature related. Does anyone know if the motor bearing is serviceable? My suspicion is that the motor bearing lubricant has glued up due to the length of time it was unused. |
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Anonymous | Regarding re-lubing a Planar 2 spindle, I've got to admit to being too tight to pay Rega £££ for 4 drops of oil. So the question is, what's the best alternative? What I know about mechanics you can fit in a matchbox without taking the matches out first, so when it comes to choosing a lube I wouldn't know where begin to search. Engine oil, I take it, is totally inappropriate? |
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Unregistered guest | To all those with Rega Planar 3s running backwards. I believe that this is a faulty capacitor that is used to ofset the phase of the single phase motor. I think you might need a new motor. |
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Unregistered guest | Also, I have just returned home from about 4 months in Canada to find that my kids have wrecked my old stylus (Cambridge AR P77). Can anyone recommend a good budget stylus for the rega planar II. The P77 was a bit light for my liking, good for classical music but not punchy enough for beat based music. |
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Dynacolt Unregistered guest | I have a Rega 3 that has begun to stall every few seconds and was advised it is likely to be the capacitor. This is a user-replaceable item and I plan to swap it for a new one (being cheaper than a new motor). If that fails, then it's the obvious upgrade to the P3 motor. Dave. |
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Unregistered guest | Just to say I found this thread v. helpful -- I bought a second hand planar 3 to upgrade my PL12D, and was disappointed in the results. I discovered that my bearing was dry, & put in some SAE 30 lawnmower oil (actually too much -- I couldn't get the platter down  , & removed some with ear-buds), and the turntable has begun to sing.... Thanks everyone. |
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ThomasB Unregistered guest | My 1982 Planar 3 also suffered from the backwards running problem. The motor tended to keep changing direction, with the belt slipping and the platter stopping altogether. As suggested above, I replaced the capacitor - the old one was badly cracked. It now works fine. It's quite an easy job if you can solder. The existing capacitor was clearly marked with its value and quite an easy type to get from an electronic component supplier. The cost is no more than a handful of loose change. Thanks to nomerac and Dynacolt for the tip. |
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New member Username: IgkPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 | this seems to be a common problem because i have just noticed this exact problem with a planar 3 that i just picked up. in the course of shipping, the pulley was knocked off and the motor was wedged underneath the plinth. now it's running slow (if at all) with the platter on and i'm not sure why. i have tried to see if it was the pulley loose on the motor as suggested in the earlier posts. it appears to be attached quite tightly to the motor, however, when i take the pulley off and hold on to the motor as it is spinning, if i hold on tightly then the spinning piece slips against the rest of the motor, and it makes a rubbing sound. is this normal? the bearing appears to be well lubricated despite some leakage of fluid during the shipping. the subplatter spins nicely for a few seconds before it stops when i give it a good spin. any suggestions? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4220 Registered: Dec-03 | Sorry about no response, Ken. There are dealers who will repair and refurbish, that's all I can think of. The topic of Rega Planar speed and pitch has come up again, here, on:- First ever serious TT I've owned - please can anyone advise on setup? |
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