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New member Username: OddsockjrPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | I work at a store that sells retail electronics, and up to this point, my home theater had been put together basically of extremely good deals on a piece by piece basis, our stores cost or less. But I'm starting to really enjoy what's come out of it, and I want to know what the next step is. What would be worth upgrading, and what wouldn't. As far as receivers go, I'd like to make full use of my TV's HDMI inputs, Samsung HL-R5067W Onkyo TX-SR502 Jamo A325 satellite, center, and sub JBL S310II Towers What could I do to make the most out of this set-up, and what upgrades would make it even better? |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 847 Registered: Apr-05 | Looks like a good DVD player is in order. See if you can get a good deal on this http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/228.asp |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7797 Registered: May-04 | What are its failings now? Without knowing what you are trying to improve, you'll only get people telling you what they would prefer to own. What areas would you like to improve and how? |
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New member Username: OddsockjrPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | It seems to me that with the value of everything else in the system, my Receiver would probably be the weak link. But I'd like to know what the benefits would be of upgrading it, and what are some good options out there. Preferably Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, JVC, Panasonic, Sony, and the like. I have an opportunity to get an Onkyo TX-SR703 for a good deal - But would that make a recognizable jump in quality? And if so, How? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7803 Registered: May-04 | I guess I didn't make myself clear. What are the quality failings of the system, not which component can you get a good deal on. What qualities of audio or video performance do you feel are lacking? How do you want it to sound or look and how does that differ from what you have now? |
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New member Username: OddsockjrPost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-06 | It seems to me that you're trying to get me to answer my own question. If I knew what was lacking, I'd fix it. Overall it seems good, but I have more money to invest, and I want to know what the next step would be. As far as I know my speakers are high quality. I want to know if they really are, and if my receiver is using their potential. If not, what could I replace them with. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 6762 Registered: Dec-03 | I can recommend an upgrade that I like and I think should be your next step. The Outlaw Audio Model 1070 receiver. As Jan pointed out, it is what "I" like and based on my own experience and preference and has nothing at all to do with your current set-up. But rather pointed at what I believe to be a better set-up than what you currently own. Others will disagree, but that is why there are plenty of gear out there, so you can have a choice. I think that you just want to upgrade for the sake of upgrading, because you are expecting benefits. Can't fault you for that, one time or another one will feel compelled to upgrade his/her gear...just because. Or in your case you have more money to spend. Really, if you don't know what is lacking then how would you know that it is indeed lacking? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1577 Registered: Dec-04 | Salesmans dream come true;John P. walks in needing to spend. He starts with'what do I need'? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1578 Registered: Dec-04 | John. Salesmen, drummers, roofers, treblefreaks, bassheads, dentists, callgirls and cops all have nice systems, but you have to hear them yourself. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7809 Registered: May-04 | JP - I'm trying to get you to think. Doling out money just because you have it is one way to put together a bunch of expensive pieces of equipment. It is not the way to get a system with synergy where each component plays off the strengths and minimizes the weaknesses of all the other components. One type of system is possibly OK but probably could be better. The other type of system punches, as they say, above its weight class. I know you have money burning a hole in your pocket, but my advice would be to wait until you have a strong desire to fix something. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unitl you hear a better system or real music which tells you where your system is weak, you are merely taking a shotgun approach to replacing some stuff with other stuff. This slow approach generally falls on deaf ears when someone has money and a "good deal" in front of them. I will now let the other members of the forum tell you what they already do or would like to own. Good luck. |
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New member Username: OddsockjrPost Number: 5 Registered: Mar-06 | Hey, I've been working the money into my budget for a while. The plan is to upgrade my receiver, and hand my current receiver over to my folks. Nobody seems to know much about my Jamo A325 speakers...I'd like to know what WOULD cover for their weaknesses. I've seen the numbers, but I've never heard them hooked up to anything but my current SR502. My Woofer is also weak, and I've been considering a separate amplifier for my Stereo speakers. My Current receiver can't do that. I also want to use the full potential of my TV, with HDMI. Also a failing of my Receiver, unless I skip over it and go straight to the TV. The DVD 2910- looks like a great player. I'm going to see what I can do to get a deal on it. (We do carry Denon, so they have incentives for us) Thanks for that suggestion. This being a Receiver string, I'd like some more suggestions on receivers that may improve the performance of my speakers...like I said - I don't notice the weaknesses, but I do notice that it's not the same as my friends 2.5 million dollar setup. I don't think I'll ever get to that position, but I'd like to do all that I can within my budget. As a salesman, I deal with customers like me everyday, people that come in with something specific in mind, but don't want to do all the research themselves. That's why they pay salesman. I try to stay knowledgeable so that I can actually help them. When they say, "I want a bigscreen but need to keep it under 2000." I point them to an open box DLP with a 5 year warranty, explain the strengths and weaknesses, and let them know what the next step would be. I hoped on this forum, I could get some educated answers on WHAT the next step is for me. Since nobody seems to carry my Speakers around here, I can't go into a store and compare different receivers with them. I have to go purely off of my speakers specs, and frankly, I don't know how to interpret those. |
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New member Username: DogyPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | Hey guys!! I have the receiver 2007A, and I'm not sure what cods I need and where to find it if I'm going to watch dish chanels. Can please some body give me instructions and this information, or is it any place i can find it Thank youu sooooooo much |
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Silver Member Username: GeekboyTampa, FL United States Post Number: 406 Registered: Dec-03 | Dog: "cods"? Do you mean cords? Are you trying to hook up your Dish satellite to your receiver? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 6841 Registered: Dec-03 | Wrong forum, dog! Go to home video. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7851 Registered: May-04 | JP - Ignore the speaker specs; they tell you nothing. If you upgrade, are you limited to the components your shop sells? You say you want a receiver that "covers" your speakers weaknesses. If I read that right, that's not exactly how to go about it. At best you want a system that doesn't point out the weakness of any component, not just hide them under a basket. Explain what the weaknesses of your speakers are. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 679 Registered: Dec-03 | John Peckham: I actually know your speakers because my wife works with a HT supplier and installer that uses Jamo speakers and I use Jamo in-walls in my own HT system for my rear speakers. What I can tell you is that your speakers are starved for current (aka, power). Those speakers are a very complex impedence load--they are rated at 6 ohms, but they are actually all over the map dependeing upon frequency. Your onkyo is over matched. My suggestion is that the next best step in your system is much better amplification, and you are wasting your time with most receivers under $1K (although the suggested Outlaw 1070 is a very good one--so is an NAD). Instead, I suggest you use your current receiver as a pre/pro and add an outboard power amp. In that regard, I would suggest the the Outlaw 7075 which you can order direct for $699 (www.outlawaudio.com). Unlike most asian made electronics, it has a very beefy power supply and that makes all of the difference in the world. It is rated at 75 wpc, but unlike your Onkyo, it can deliver a true 75 wpc across all channels, not just two channels at a time. You can order it and try it in home for 30 days--believe me it will open your eyes (and ears). It will make your Jamo's sing better than any receiver you are considering. Now, if you are used to selling the major brands (onkyo, Denon, et al), you have no idea how much difference quality amplification can make, but it is huge. The Outlaw's 75 wpc will sound much louder, cleaner and exciting than any denon or Onkyo 100 wpc. This is because the major companies rate their receivers only two channels at a time, so the power supply is only big enough to deliver rated power to only two channels. A couple of years back, Sound & Vision tested a Marantz 7200, rated at 100 wpc, but when driving 5 channels, it clipped at 27 wpc! That is one example, but typical of the problem with the mass market products. Conversely, Outlaw and NAD only rate their products with all channels driven at the same time. They have bigger and better quality power supplies, which account for the improvement in sound (well, ok, they also use better quality power output transistors, too, instead of cheap integrated circuit outputs). So if you are looking to truly improve your system, this is your best next step. After all, with a free 30 day in home trial, what have you got to lose if you try it out? You can always send it back with no questions asked. Later on, you can get the Outlaw 970 pre/pro to accomodate your HDMI output on your TV--it also costs $699. BTW, you will find there is no good reason to have the audio receiver processing video signals--I have found it to be a real waste of time and energy. But it helps the big marketers to sell more product! Also, which sub do you have? I ask because you indicate your woofer is weak, but didn't specify which sub you have. Is is the A 30 from Jamo, which is meant to cosmetically match the A325s you have in the front? If so, that is a weak sub--it has an amp rated at 100w inside, but the amp is not that strong, IMHO. I would suggest a new sub, such as a Hsu STF-1, available for $299 direct from the factory (www.hsuresearch.com). Best sub for the money anywhere, anytime. Also available with a 30 day in home trial period. You will find Dr. Hsu's subwoofer products among the most universally praised of any products available, and with good reason. Good luck! |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 871 Registered: Apr-05 | Is this the same Hawk everybody has been missing around here? If you are, I have read some of your old posts. Your knowledge and humility is very much missed. I'm glad you are back. |
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New member Username: OddsockjrPost Number: 6 Registered: Mar-06 | Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, Hawk. That's what I wanted to hear...That's just the next step I was looking for, and with a 30 day trial, there's not much to lose. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 681 Registered: Dec-03 | Stof: It's me. A couple of surgeries later and one daughter finally settled in at college, I find I actually have a little time on my hands to visit the old neighborhood. I have missed it quite a bit. And thank you for the very kind words! John P.: Glad I could help--enjoy! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1237 Registered: Sep-04 | John P, I'm confused here. If your system is made of brands you sell, how is it that you can't tell what's wrong with the system and evaluate what needs changing? Furthermore, won't your boss allow you to borrow some kit and try it at home so you can evaluate what changes are possible for free? I mean, that's one of the perks of the job surely? This would also give you first hand knowledge of how to take care of your customers when they want to upgrade. By having fun at home with various combinations, you'll have first hand knowledge (as opposed to data) of how best to improve combinations - and build your clientele. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: OddsockjrPost Number: 7 Registered: Mar-06 | You'd think they'd want their employees educated AND experienced...but that costs money and gives control to the lowly salesman, and takes it away from the managers. I've gotten in trouble for playing with the menus on televisions...It's a hands off-fancy talking kind of sales situation. Although, I did bring in my own DVD player and cables to show people what a standard DVD player would look like on the TV's. I sold more bigscreens than anyone else in the store...but got in trouble for touching the TVs. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1612 Registered: Dec-04 | Seems a bit odd to me as well Frank. Good to meet you this time around Hawk. Your reputation precedes you, I feel underdressed. Very good, then! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1247 Registered: Sep-04 | Sheesh - that's a screwed up situation. I feel for you. Hawk's come up with some excellent ideas, but I think that the Outlaw stuff doesn't grab you as a great deal since it means you have to buy at retail rather than at trade. Then again, if your store isn't interested in dealing properly with its staff, perhaps you'll be on the move to one that will take care of you... FWIW, Jamo speakers are traditionally easy to drive and fairly all-or-nothing affairs - lots happening but not much finesse. By improving the electronics, you will get more detail (or resolution), and you should perceive improvements in bandwidth (how well the system does at frequency extremes) and spatial steering in surround scenarios. The 2910 is one of the very best DVD players from the Far East in that respect. The Pioneer equivalent (the 989) has a better picture but is lacking in the sound stakes by comparison. You can have similar benefits by going up in the amp stakes. in fact, if your speakers aren't being driven properly, then the benefits of a DVD player change could be hidden by the limitations of the amp/speaker combination. But the source is all-important since if that output's not right by the time it gets to the amp, it isn't going to become fixed miraculously by the time it gets to the speaker... As to receivers in particular, Denon are about to release their new AVR2807. The word in the industry is that this is going to be one seriously good receiver. It replaces the 2805 but they're saying it'll outperform the 3806! In your position I would wait for that to be released before making any moves. As to HDMI etc. there's quite a few receivers that do HDMI switching but their ability in this regard is decidedly variable. At the moment, you're more likely to get a better result going direct to the TV than switching via a mid-range receiver. Regards and luck, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3707 Registered: Mar-05 | > As to receivers in particular, Denon are about to release their new AVR2807. The word in the industry is that this is going to be one seriously good receiver. It replaces the 2805 but they're saying it'll outperform the 3806! In your position I would wait for that to be released before making any moves. I keep hearing this buzz about the 2807, but nobody has ever said what EXACTLY about it is that's supposed to be so phenomenal. Does it have some new technology or something? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1635 Registered: Dec-04 | Just good solid stuff like they used to do in the 70's. With new age dvi, 'cept Denon signed on to hdmi. us and them type of thing. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 717 Registered: Dec-03 | Hmmm. Sounds familiar. Denon, one of the really big boys in HT has their many minions out generating "buzz" for their upcoming receiver. 'Going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread,' etc., etc. I have heard this all before so many times I am sick of it, yet when the units are finally released, they sound just like the previous generation. You'll excuse me if I forgo getting excited. One suggestion: never, ever, get excited about an upcoming release of any stereo or HT piece of gear unless and until you have heard it for yourself compared to other similar units. If you haven't heard it yet, it is just marketing hype, nothing more. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1043 Registered: May-05 | Hawk, I couldn't agree more. Case in point - NAD Master Series. I own NAD and am a big fan, but the M3 integrated is definately nothing to lust for, especially for $2800. Better than the C162/C272? Yes. Worth twice as much? Not a chance. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 719 Registered: Dec-03 | Stu: I have not even seen the new Master Series yet, much less heard them, but I know you must be correct. With Audio equipment, the Law of Diminishing Returns clearly operates. Just because something costs twice as much does not mean it sounds twice as good. Above a certain price level, the extra money is usually only squeezing out a 2-3% improvements for an extra grand. Clearly, not a good situation when one has daughters to put through college! Still, I have lust in my heart for a Bryston amp, and perhaps someday I will have a little extra that I can use to acquire the lust of my life, alas . . . |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1048 Registered: May-05 | Hawk - Bryston is one of my favorite lines, along with McIntosh and Naim. I agree with the diminishing returns point, but their is better sounding gear for less money and a little more money. To put my feelings toward the NAD M3 into perspective, I thought the Naim Nait 5i was better, and it's half the cost. The McIntosh MA 6500 wipes the floor with the M3 at about $400 more than the M3. If someone can afford the M3, the few extra dollars shouldn'tbe too hard to swing. I really wanted to like the M3, but was very disappointed. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 737 Registered: Dec-03 | Stu: Yeah, Bryston and MacIntosh are both really sweet sounding gear. Let's not get started or my wife will kill me. I find the new NAD gear, the Master Series, somewhat strange. First of all, it seems off strategy to me, but with new owners (Lenbrook Group bought them about three years ago), they may be looking to change their image. Nevertheless, all I have seen is pictures of the stuff and frankly, I do not find it attractive, not for those prices. But taste is a subjective thing, so I will allow that it has to appeal to someone. The Master Series is supposed to replace the ill fated Silver Series that I heard a lot of good things about (except for its pricing). I would prefer the Silver Series over the Master Series, but it seems to me that if the problem with Silver was price resistance, why are they charging even more for the Master Series? But, hey, what do I know? The Naim Nait is one fine little integrated amp, one I could listen to all day. I am not suprised in the least that you prefer its sound. |