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New member Username: BiraanPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | I was recently looking into a Denon AVR-1760 with 75 watts per channel, I thought that was crap so I asked and he didnt give me a clear reason he just said wattage is allmost obsolete. anyopne know in what case and what to look for when buying a low wattage reciver? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1864 Registered: Dec-04 | Sure. This is a low wattage receiver, from the bottom end of the line.Next. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8014 Registered: May-04 | Seventy five watts is the low end of the line? My, how things change. Brian, you don't give much explanation for why you thought seventy five watts was "crap" nor why the response came back wattage is "almost obsolete". When will it be definitely obsolete and what is intended to take its place? As with any other purchase in audio, look for the features you need or want and the sound quality that suits your budget. How much more do you need to know? There are no specifications (including wattage) that will tell you how an amplifier sounds. Unless you are up to date on the type of chip that is preferred for the various functions in a receiver (assuming, of course, the sales staff could tell you what is inside a receiver) there's not much to go on other than listening and inquiring about reliability and service availability should it become an issue. My general advice to a receiver buyer is to buy the unit with the least number of features, lowest wattage and the heaviest weight for the dollar. Less features probably means the manufacturer put their money to use on better quality parts. Less wattage means the manufacturer is probably being more honest about their ratings. And more weight means the power supply stands a better chance of being well desinged and implemented. So, why did you think seventy five watts was crap? |
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New member Username: BiraanPost Number: 6 Registered: Mar-06 | I thought it was crap becuase thats all I was ever told otherwise. I've only had a real sound system for 3 months now. And seeing as how most of the people I bought my stuff from where payed commision they would probaly have told me anything to sell me the product. It makes sence now. thanks |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1869 Registered: Dec-04 | When the high end of the line is 175, yeah 75 is entry level. I am unfamiliar with that Denon line, but familiar with the marketing concept, H/K in particular. I have an AVR55, and the line went up to AVR85. Similar idea. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1870 Registered: Dec-04 | However, all this crap does not mean that your receiver idea is deficient in any way, Brian. Contrarily, you may have a chance to buy a superior unit, certainly the brand ain't keif, and may well serve your needs for years to come. And mine stinks. How will you like it? Try it! |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 830 Registered: Dec-03 | Memorable Quotes from Casablanca (1942) Mr. Leuchtag: Come sit down. Have a brandy with us. Mrs. Leuchtag: To celebrate our leaving for America tomorrow. Carl: Oh, thank you very much. I thought you would ask me, so I brought the good brandy. And - a third glass! Mrs. Leuchtag: At last the day is came! Mr. Leuchtag: Mareichtag and I are speaking nothing but English now. Mrs. Leuchtag: So we should feel at home when we get to America. Carl: Very nice idea, mm-hmm. Mr. Leuchtag: [toasting] To America! Mrs. Leuchtag: To America! Carl: To America! Mr. Leuchtag: Liebchen - sweetnessheart, what watts? Mrs. Leuchtag: Ten watts. Mr. Leuchtag: Such watts? Carl: Hm. You will get along beautiful in America, mm-hmm. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1875 Registered: Dec-04 | Tim, methinks you are a strange man. And that is meant in the best of ways!We'll always have Paris. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8018 Registered: May-04 | Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn! |
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New member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 10 Registered: Mar-06 | "anyopne know in what case and what to look for when buying a low wattage reciver?" Depends on what you mean by "low wattage" and no , the concept of wattage is not obsolete. |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 886 Registered: Apr-05 | Actually I think Tim is making fun of the english being used here. The actual line goes like this: Mr. Leuchtag: What watch? (What time?) Mrs. Leuchtag: 10 much (10:00 o'clock) Mr. Leutag: Such much? (so late?) Does anybody know watt is power? |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 831 Registered: Dec-03 | Just making light of the whole wattage "thing". Talking about and/or considering wattage is not obsolete but it's relative to everything else going on in the system. Too much emphasis is paid to wattage and an indication of quality. There are several of us with "low" wattage systems that considering them far from being "crap". About 3 weeks ago I was listening to a $35K system that had a rated output from the main amplifier of 60 watts and I can assure you it sounded fantastic. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 21 Registered: Mar-06 | There can be many difficulties with "low wattage" sytems, chief among which is the tendency to clip during demanding or loud passages. However, if all one listens to is chamber music or if volumes are low, a low wattage system can be satisfying with the right components. But there are clearly built in limitations that are not present in the more powerful set ups. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 832 Registered: Dec-03 | What is "low" wattage? Two, ten, fifty? |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 22 Registered: Mar-06 | Great question. A lot depends on what the amp is called upon to reproduce. There is a formula that helps determine how much wattage is needed to produce a certain sound at a certain decibel level. I can't remember it at this moment. But forget about that technical stuff for now. Two watts per channel is virtually useless for producing any realistic sound at listening levels much above background music. Remember: I said realistic sound. Two WPC can not produce a realistic kick drum, bass guitar or pipe organ. Lower frequencies require power. Same could be said for 10 WPC. However, at 50 WPC (and a quality amp) with efficient speakers, one can approach realism. Now where exactly is the break point? I really couldn't say without knowing a lot about your listening habits and the equipment involved. Perhaps Jan Vigne can tell you. He seems to know the technical stuff-from time to time. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8020 Registered: May-04 | To be honest, Wiley, I can't tell what you're talking about. SPL will be determined mainly by the sensitivity of the speaker you are using. Obviously the higher the sensitivity, the higher the volume at whatever wattage you are employing. A very efficient loudspeaker, let's say at approximately 104dB @ 1 watt @ 1 meter, should satisfy anyone with the amount of acoustic power it can generate with only a handful of watts. With only ten solid watts of power this speaker could reach 115dB @ one meter. Despite the vary large dynamic power that is represented in live music, an efficient speaker can do more to reproduce that power than any amount of wattage alone can achieve. This in no way makes wattage obsolete and I doubt this is what the response concerning wattage in the original post was referring to. Too many people seem to be under the same assumption Wiley labors with. The need for high power (75 watts or more) has been placed in our heads by the marketing of crappy amplifiers/receivers with only on paper wattage and a speaker industry that feels 3% efficiency is adequate. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 23 Registered: Mar-06 | Not surprising Jan. Understanding basic English is not your strong suit. I challenge you to find a 5WPC amplifier than can realistically produce the low registers of a pipe organ, regardless of speaker sensitivity. You can't. Laws of physics-that sort of thing. Certain you won't understand. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 836 Registered: Dec-03 | I'd like to relate a story concerning the $35K system I referred to earlier. The amp and speakers were designed by the same company. This company has been around for years with a reputation for producing some of the finest loudspeakers in the industry. The loudspeakers from this company are notorious for being difficult to drive because the designer intentionally lowers the impedance at frequencies he considers important to the impact of the music. Buyers of the speakers were challenged to find a suitable amplifier so the company decided to make their own amp. As I said earlier, the amp is rated at 60 watts per channel, however, the power supply and the circuitry are the best this company could produce. They readily admit they can't guarantee how their amp will work with other speakers but it's perfect for their's. I'm not saying these monitors would hit 16 Hz but they did produce a most satisfactory listening experience and there was plenty of bass response. I've heard systems that cost much more that didn't sound as good. The point is, let's keep things in perspective. The OP of the thread is/was under the impression that you must have hundreds of watts to produce a satisfying listening experience. I'm saying, you can't make that judgement based on the wattage rating alone. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 24 Registered: Mar-06 | Tim, no one disputes that a well built 60 WPC system will sound better than a poorly built one claiming the same specs. Just because a sound is "satisfying" does not necessarily mean it is accurate. My wife loves our little Timex tabletop radio/cd player. To her, the sound is satisfying. But at less than a watt per channel, it simply can not accurately produce certain sounds, despite Jan's ramblings about speaker sensitivity. There is no accounting for taste. I guess that's why she chose me instead of some rich guy. I never said wattage is the only criterion worth consideration. But it is still a very important one if you are looking for realistic sound. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8032 Registered: May-04 | Wiley - I wondered how long it would take before you resorted to the sort of comments which originally got you banned from the forum. You must have a new ISP and felt you could sneak in unnoticed by the administrator. Oh, well, since you started this, here goes. Wiley, you are a frickin' idiot. You make several incorrect assumptions, the first being that I have a problem with language. The second is your grasp of the "Laws of Physics sort of thing". To make this as brief as possible, an amplifier is not the limiting factor in bass reproduction. For the sake of argument, let's just understand that an amplifier will be designed and rated for RMS power from one frequency, say 20Hz, to another frequency, say 20kHz. I see you simply don't grasp the low wattage, typically single ended amplifier market, Wiley. There are no physical restrictions upon an amplifier of any wattage reproducing 20Hz. The practical restrictions occur when price and size are a consideration. So shall we just understand that an amplifier of any wattage can reproduce the low frequency range of a pipe organ should the designer wish that to be the limits of the design. That said the next part of the system responsible for turning the electrical output at 20Hz into acoustic output is the speaker. To suggest a speaker cannot reproduce twenty cycles is absurd. To understand that it will normally require a large speaker enclosure to develop a twenty Hz wavefront and a room to allow that frequency goes to the laws of physics. To this end, the corner loaded, expotential horn is our best available option. This arrangement combines high efficiency and low frequency extention as the dimensions of the room dictate the final dimensions of the low frequency horn which dictate the low frequency extension of the speaker system. If we merely look at the typical corner loaded speaker system in consumer audio, we shall find that exact 104dB sensitivity I spoke of. That is for one speaker only. Let's put a pair of horns in the room and connect them to our amplifier that can pass a 20Hz signal. The additional speaker and estimated room gain should garner about another 6-9dB of efficiency from the system. That would put our 20Hz signal from the amplifier at a SPL of around 120+dB. Wiley, exactly how loud do you need this signal to be to consider it "realistic"? Please, Wiley, do not "challenge" me to do anything. You do not have a grasp of what is available and I have no desire to play any of your childish games. You are wrong, here, Wiley, just admit it and let's move on. As to your wife and her preference for a one watt table radio, the answer is obvious. She simly prefers things small and inaccurate. Therefore she picked you. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1277 Registered: Sep-04 | Dale, Crap. Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 26 Registered: Mar-06 | Nice ramblings Frank and Jan. Keep up the good work. Do what you do best. Mislead, not inform. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8033 Registered: May-04 | Frank - Verb, noun or adjective? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8034 Registered: May-04 | Wiley - Debate the facts rather than slam the person in possession of them. Otherwise you are once again contributing nothing to further the purpose of the forum. You were removed from the forum once for this behaviour. If this is the best you can manage, you might want to save yourself the embarrassment of a repeat performance and bow out now. Come on, Wiley, come up with a logical debate to what is in print. I challenge you to prove me wrong. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 129 Registered: Dec-05 | Sorry to break in for a second guys. Brian, Check out this link for the basic information regarding Watts. It's a good place to begin. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/articles/109138.html There are so many factors affecting sound quality and not the least is your room and distortion, the best thing to do is to test the receiver you want with the speakers you have in your listening area. There is no substitute for auditioning the equipment you want to buy. If you like it, then it's what is "sufficient" power and clarity for you. Remember that bass response and loudness are not mutually inclusive (Police sirens, air horns, etc.), the only thing to do is to test your speakers to see if you have the bass and clarity you want at the volume you like. Good luck on auditioning the different solid state receivers. My opinion is that the Yamaha you mentioned may not have enough juice to drive most conventional floorstanding speakers to their potential, but bookshelf speakers would likely be ok. Cheers. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 27 Registered: Mar-06 | I don't think I want to debate an idiot. I have better things to do than stoop to your level. If you have time to submit 8000 posts, many of which are analogous to ones in this thread, more power to you. Let the readers decide. Buy a 2WPC amp and enjoy your deep bass. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8036 Registered: May-04 | Just as I thought. You are a frickin' idiot. Please, Wiley, refrain from bringing my name into your posts ever again. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1882 Registered: Dec-04 | The entirety of Maple Leaf Gardens(seating 19,800) was sound powered by 35 Watts(SET). And horns as seen in person to be enormous. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 28 Registered: Mar-06 | Jan, Jan, Jan, Jan and Jan to the millionth power. Curious how the Administrators put up with Jan's countless insults while sanctioning others. Is there something about that relationship the rest of us should know? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8039 Registered: May-04 | You don't learn anything; do you, Wiley? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1888 Registered: Dec-04 | Gosh Wiley, you are right! I've never seen them together! Buffoon. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 29 Registered: Mar-06 | This will be my last entry in this thread as it has been overrun by riff raff whose chief aim is to belittle, befuddle and bemuse rather than to enlighten. Go listen to some live music. You don't have to spend a fortune to see 50 Cent, Madonna, Joe Sample or the Boston Pops ( to name a few), although those events will certainly prove revealing. Just go to a local high school band concert and attentively listen to the dynamic range and tenor of the instruments-the incredible beauty of the flutes and beast of the bass drum. Use these experiences to evaluate audio eqipment. If after doing so, you honestly believe that a 2WPC amplifier can realistically reproduce similar sounds, then go and be happy my child. On the other hand, if you find that is not possible with such limited equipment, then you will have at least learned that posters like Jan and Nuck have nothing of substance to add to most discussions. Outta here. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 32 Registered: Mar-06 | "DGR, my opinions expressed are from NO personal experiencs, only whay I have read. However, I read a lot."Nuck Sorry. I lied. And he's calling names and hurling insults. Readers: always consider the source of the information when weighing credibility. Would you really go out and buy equipment on a recommendation from Nuck? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8045 Registered: May-04 | You found an insult in that quote? What name did he call someone? Who did he call that name? Where did that come from? Certainly not this thread. Wiley, you need serious help. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 33 Registered: Mar-06 | "Buffoon" Nuck As I previously stated: "Not surprising Jan. Understanding basic English is not your strong suit." Yep. I'm the one who needs the serious help alright. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 34 Registered: Mar-06 | https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/211855.html |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1889 Registered: Dec-04 | Dale, I thought you had promised to leave this thread a while ago. I'm getting tired of holding the door, and there is a draft. Would you really go out and buy equipment on a recommendation from Nuck? I don't expect anyone to follow any one of my ideas, Dale M. Wiley. I am quite surprised that anyone bothers to answer my posts, in fact. Why the heck do you? |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 35 Registered: Mar-06 | "I don't expect anyone to follow any one of my ideas... I am quite surprised that anyone bothers to answer my posts, in fact."Nuck. Finally, some truth emerges. Now I understand why the Rev. Jesse Jackson chants, "Keep hope alive". I only hope that readers will heed the best advice Nuck has ever given. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8046 Registered: May-04 | Wiley - You are a frickin' idiot! Not to mention seriously delusional. You attacked Nuck first in that thread. What are you doing, Wiley? What kind of a problem do you have? You drag a line from another thread over here to maintain some kind of little kid's game that you want to establish with everyone on this forum. That's not right, Wiley. There's something seriously wrong with this. Since you probably forgot you said you were leaving, let me be the second to remind you of your promise. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 36 Registered: Mar-06 | My exact words in the quoted thread:"DGR, my opinions expressed are from NO personal experiencs, only whay I have read" Nuck "How much is this advice really worth? Elderion, good job." You call that an attack Jan? Whose really delusional here? No need to answer. Methinks the readers can figure this one out. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8048 Registered: May-04 | Yes, Wiley, I call that delusional in that youthinks anyone else is reading your posts. Since you seem to have some odd desire to stay on this thread and be your typical gregarious self; tell me why you want so badly to alienate people, Wiley? No one said anything that should upset you and yet you started in with insults. You asked for my opinion but refused to listen to what I said and then started making your absurd comments just as you did last time you were on the forum. You were removed for harrassment and that would appear to be your desire once again. So, Wiley, for the record, what is your problem with other people? And do you intend to keep up this misguided crusade of badgering other members? If you are going to stay, you either have to prove you are going to play nice not be a constant nuisance - again, or I will ask that you be removed one more time. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1891 Registered: Dec-04 | You fail to quote the follow-up there Dale. You will note, however, that I do not make pretenses, such as being in posession of omnipotent intelligence, as you have. So far as 'hurtling insults', I think calling you a 'buffoon' is about the kindest printable word I could salvage from the fallow and chaff of my prviously considered descriptions of your posts. I should think that the 'intelectually challenged' comment tossed at Jan would qualify as name calling and as instigational as any you could banty about. You are fishing for the recognition of your opinions in a poor location, offering little, whereas my opinions and posts are seldom taken with more than a grain of salt and tequila. I have never proffesed to be a genius(as you have), and I do not mount a counter-attack until a BUFFOON TROLL becomes more than a nuicence, but outright rude. I invite you to not only eat, but savour every last thread of my shorts, including the short curlies, skid mark, and leakage from the pimples on my hairy white backside. I also hope someone gets a laff before this post is justifiably removed from public consumption. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 38 Registered: Mar-06 | Jan, pop psychology is beneath even you-and believe me that's going pretty low. If you want to ask the Administrators to ban me, go ahead, do what you gotta do. Perhaps you should start by taking a good, long look in the mirror. I will however, indulge you with this response. I am troubled by posters who, like yourself, think they know everything and believe no one else has anything of value to contribute. I am equally put off by folks like Nuck who give advice and have absolutely no rational basis for doing so. There are people who take this stuff seriously and they act on some of the things we say. We should therefor, try to give the best advice possible. Get me banned while you continue to insult and demean. Who gives a sh#t. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1893 Registered: Dec-04 | Look up Wiley, and smack your lips |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 39 Registered: Mar-06 | "I invite you to not only eat, but savour every last thread of my shorts, including the short curlies, skid mark, and leakage from the pimples on my hairy white backside."Nuck And you want to ban me. What a joke. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1895 Registered: Dec-04 | I never said I wanted to see you banned, Wiley. I said I want you to savour my shorts. There is a difference, because if you are banned, I can't offer you my socks later on. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1896 Registered: Dec-04 | BTW, did you get my point about my postings? Have a drink and love the world man. Pompous, bitter and uptight is no way to live your life, mano. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2906 Registered: Feb-05 | Another fun thread on ecoustics. Dale, you know enough about this audio stuff to have something of value to contribute. If only you could stay out of these personal battles. I'm not stating who started this one because I haven't paid enough attention to know. I can tell whoever takes the time to read this that it is my experience that Nuck is a good guy and that a more careful examination of his posts shows someone with a sense of humor and who generally means no harm. When I first joined ecoustics I was often offended by your posts (Dale) and asked the admin to have you removed. I was new and was absolutely sure that I heard him (the Admin) laugh out loud over the computer. As I stuck around more I found that you often had something of value to say (when you weren't squabbling with someone)and found myself agreeing with you on occasion (doesn't really matter). Obviously I don't know you from any stranger walking down the street but from your posts I would have to agree with Nuck whom I've had the pleasure of conversing with that perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea if you "have a drink and love the world man". You do appear to be quite bitter and angry. Life's too long and hard to live like that. No value judgements Dale just my observation. And yes Jan does think he knows everything but in case you haven't noticed he damn near does, so relax and enjoy. You might actually learn something. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1899 Registered: Dec-04 | With the pleasantries now settled and past, I do believe that in the world of mid-fi, or maybe even lower-fi, the higher powered pieces are a better buy(with the future in mind). However, when a unit goes down, the bite is even worse. Therefore, I suggest moving up in scale(and cost, rats) to move to something with a proven track record, and long life. The OP's Denon is neither, IMHO, but may last a long time.The Q is, do you want to live with it for a long time? What is a long lasting mass product? I like H/K for that, 10 yrs on mine, 20 on my BIL's.? Opinions? |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 41 Registered: Mar-06 | Well Art, thanks for your patronizing advice. Tell you what. You live your live the way you choose and I'll live mine the way I choose. Join the bandwagon. Get me banned. If I am "bitter and angry", this is America and that is my right wouldn't you say? You know nothing about me. Perhaps if you walked in my shoes, you might see life a little differently. I don't share your worship of Jan. But to each his or her own. However, I still consistently respect your contributions to this forum and appreciate your efforts at "mediation". However, in this life, we will run across people who, rightly or wrongly, rub us the wrong way. That's just the way it is. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8052 Registered: May-04 | You have one thing correct, Wiley, you rub me the wrong way. As I assume you intend to do. Thank you for your series of posts here, Wiley. They have proven you are not capable of carrying on a civil conversation. While none of us have walked in each other's shoes, we have all had to learn to get along for the sake of getting along. You seem not to have learned that lesson and carry a large, jagged wad in a very tight location. For whatever cause you have developed a very disagreeable personality and wish to inflict it upon others for no particular reason. Why? I don't know and I don't care. This is an audio forum and your psychological problems are of interest to no one present. So here's the game plan for here on out, Wiley. (And I will post this on the administrator's thread so it is known to everyone.) I have no interest in dealing with a misanthropic malcontent. From this point forward until you are finally removed from the forum, Wiley, I intend to ignore you and have nothing further to say to you. I expect you to do exactly the same. Do not mention my name. Do not make any reference to me or anything I post. Ignore me, Wiley, as thoroughly as I intend to ignore you. I have asked that you once again be banned from the forum for your disruptive personality. Anytime you do any of the above mentioned items, I will post once again that you are continuing to harrass me. And I will continue to post that message until the administrator finally sees fit to remove at least one of us. With your past history on the forum, I suspect you won't be taking up much of my time. Wiley, this forum was not a pleasant place while you and a few others were constantly interferring in the process of allowing people to communicate last fall. You were removed for this behaviour. From that time, the forum has been a relatively pleasant place to visit. I don't intend to let you destroy that peace once again. Refer to me, mention my name or say anything that has the slightest amount to do with me and I will continue to report you to the administrator. Goodbye, Wiley, and good riddance. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 42 Registered: Mar-06 | "Ignore me, Wiley" Jan No problem, glad to oblige. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1902 Registered: Dec-04 | Admin might give me 2 in the box for getting rowdy, but I'll take one for the team. Hear no Wiley, See no Wiley Speak no Wiley. That calls for a beer, over and out. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2907 Registered: Feb-05 | Dale, you apparently misunderstood me and I guess that's alright. "However, in this life, we will run across people who, rightly or wrongly, rub us the wrong way. That's just the way it is." And that is not a problem. The problem is when everyone rubs you the wrong way and you rub everyone the wrong way. See the difference. I'm not trying to fight with you Dale and I'm sorry that I angered you but I felt the need to say something. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1907 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, I reposted in amps, He doesn't hang out there much. Dale you are invited, so long as you relax,chill man.(Art's influance ). And Art is about as mellow as they come, Good man, that Art. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 43 Registered: Mar-06 | Art, you impress me as a genuinely kind and caring person and I am usually a pretty good judge of such things. I did not mean to offend you. Thank you for your comments. Rubbing some people the wrong way might be a charactersitic of mine. But I get plenty of "thanks" and private messages from readers in this forum. So it's not all bad. But because of your unassuming and amicable approach, I will re-evaluate. Unlike some on this forum, I have no problem with self-analysis. Oops. Sorry. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1909 Registered: Dec-04 | Well Dale, I already self analysed and posted, so if you join again on a thread, maybe bear in mind'one problem should not ruin your experience'. Just put your issue aside, live and let live. And so will he. |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 44 Registered: Mar-06 | Nuck, I really liked your last post. Possible I could have misjudged you. But some of that stuff you posted was pretty outrageous and offensive and I'm no prude. As#hole maybe, but no prude. Art, how is that for extending the olive branch? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1910 Registered: Dec-04 | Art for president! (of his local music club)! And co-president with Mrs. Art! Y'all should do this for a living Mr. Kyle! Oh, yeah...never mind. Have a go at the new one in Amps, boys! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1911 Registered: Dec-04 | It's all good, Dale, It's all in the music. Listening to thrash and rap will rev some people up a bit, A little Eagles, some Tragically hip and some Melissa Etheridge will soothe the most savage breast. Or whatever you like. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2908 Registered: Feb-05 | So guys back to tunes. See ya'll in amps. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 862 Registered: May-05 | Geez, I can't believe I read the whole thing. Moreover, Art, thanks for bringing insanity to an insane thread. I second the Art for President. Dale, if you can't get along with Art, you can't get along, period. Anyway, it seems that Dale and Jan cannot get along at all. I've been around long enough to understand that Jan is generally right and sometimes he chastens in his posts to get to the right answer and he suffers fools, not at all. Well, not entirely true, somehow he still gets along with Nuck and me. Dale, like Art, I've read many of your posts and found several to have value. Sometimes, you write things that you probably should go back and reread because "I don't think it means what you think it means," to quote Mandy Patinkin in "The Princess Bride." Anyway, I'd invite you to hang around, contribute and see if you can't be a little less black and white in what is a very grey world. Now, back to the original poster. I'm sitting on Denon 3803, 100 wpc. It's a very decent AVR and it produces pretty dang good HT sounds and resonable music in 2 channel. Downstairs, I've got a 25 wpc Fisher X202, LOVES TUBES, and it produces incredible sounds through Altec Lansing Stonehenge IIs, which are approximately the same sensitivity as my HT speakers. As I've said before, watts ain't watts and the guy who rebuilt the Fisher for me has built ultra low watt: 2, 5 and 10 wpc tube systems that produce incredible dynamics, music and sound at relatively modest listening levels. (Like Jan suggested, he uses incredibly high efficiency speakers, 102 to 104 dB. So, I think the issue of "watts" as in rateable watts per channel is generally overrated. There is something about the meshing of equipment, without getting into the physics of the whole thing, that either works for you or it doesn't. I think that's what Jan may have been alluding to, although he said it better and with bigger words. LOL |
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Bronze Member Username: MofoknowsPost Number: 60 Registered: Mar-06 | "Dale, like Art, I've read many of your posts and found several to have value. Sometimes, you write things that you probably should go back and reread because "I don't think it means what you think it means," to quote Mandy Patinkin in "The Princess Bride." Nope. I mean exactly what I post. I don't believe in playing games. Don't patronize. Maybe you misinterpret some of the things I write. Well, it's neither here nor there. Thanks for the general thrust of your post. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 867 Registered: May-05 | Dale, If I were going to patronize, I would have said you're cute, have a great bod and you're incredibly intelligent, not necessarily in that order, of course. It worked on my wife anyway. So, don't criticize someone trying not to patronize. Relax and enjoy. LOL, Dave |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8071 Registered: May-04 | Sounds like a brick has been thrown through a window. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 874 Registered: May-05 | No officer, that's not my brick, But, if it was my brick, I didn't throw it through that window. If I did throw it, I didn't mean for it to go through that window. If it went through that window, someone else must have hit my arm and redirected that brick. I KNOW NOTHING!!! |