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New member Username: PeychaudPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | My four-year-old JVC RX-8010 VBK appears to have died, so I'm in the market for a new receiver and hoping to get a few suggestions. As you can probably tell, I'm not a hardcore audiophile, but I do try to upgrade my system with every new component. I probably use my receiver 65 percent for music and 35 percent for DVDs. I listen to most of my music via iTunes, which I stream digitally to my receiver via Airport Express (I rip my CDs at 320 kpps, which to my ears is pretty comparable to CD quality). I don't have a SACD or DVD-Audio player yet, but I'm keeping an eye on the technology. I live in a pretty cozy shotgun apartment with hardwood floors. My living room (where I've got 5.1 set up with Athena bookshelf speakers) is approximately 15 x 13, and I also use the receiver to power a couple of speakers in my dining room, which is also about 15 x 13. Obviously in such a modest space, I don't need a lot of power. My main objective is a system that gives me excellent performance for music and (primaily non-action) DVDs at modest volumes. Is it necessary to pick between music and movies when you're choosing a receiver? Are all surround sound theaters built primarily for movies? Also, is there a better receiver brand for Athena AS B2 speakers, which are bright and obviously lack the bass of bigger, better speakers? Anyway, any recommendations of receivers in the $400-$600 range would be appreciated. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3710 Registered: Mar-05 | Marantz would go well with those Athenas, check out accessories4less.com and hifi.com for some great deals on them new and refurbed. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 882 Registered: Oct-04 | Pioneer 1015Tx |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1250 Registered: Sep-04 | If music is your priority then the NADs and latest Denons are the ones to look at. Different companies have different priorities in their designs. The Pioneers for example major on HT surround sound and are very good in this respect. Musically I find them a bit of a tired mess. In fact, my view is that this is continued in the DVD players. The Denon DVD players lose to the Pioneers in terms of picture quality (the Pioneers have truly excellent pictures), but the Denons beat the Pioneers comprehensively in terms of sound quality and music presentation. NAD always come in from a music presentation first angle. They're a touch noisier than the Denons and Pioneers having a higher noise floor, but musically they are more cohesive and fluid than the Denons or the Pioneers. The Denons are catching up though, and there's a new model due out shortly called the AVR2807 which has the industry in a bit of a buzz at the moment since it's meant to be really quite something. Worth waiting for probably. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: PeychaudPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | Thanks for the responses. They're exactly what I'm looking for. Based on another thread here, I was looking at the Harmon Kardon AVR 340. Any comments on whether or not that would be a good match for my set up? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7084 Registered: Dec-03 | I think the Denon in not within his budget. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2855 Registered: Feb-05 | If you get a chance I suggest you go and listen to HK, Marantz and Denon AVR's. They are your best bet. Until a year ago NAD would have been my first choice but having bought one and experiencing all of the trouble they are reputed for I can't in conscience recommend it. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 374 Registered: Apr-04 | NAD, HK, then Marantz. Too bad about your NAD, Art. Mine's a gem. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1256 Registered: Sep-04 | As a part-time dealer, I have to say we did not experience more problems with the NADs than any other brand. However, the NADs did not sell at all well, possibly because of their looks (when will they lose the grey?) and possibly because they're not renowned for surround sound. Therefore we are stopping carrying the surround amps but continuing with the stereo amps which continue to sell in respectable numbers. Musically, the NAD surround amps were definitely better than the competition. The Denons are catching up and their drive has improved a lot, but the NADs do have something which is very convincing. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 376 Registered: Apr-04 | That's interesting about the NADs, Frank. Personally, I think it's the HKs that need a fashion make over. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 380 Registered: Nov-05 | Yes, I agree about the HK's. I think the classic NAD design says: understated, but serious kit. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1682 Registered: Dec-04 | The Rotel's, however, are the classic black and pearls... Something about a little black dress and pearls... |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 699 Registered: Dec-03 | Frank: Aren't the NADs available in a titanium finish instead of the grey on your side of the pond? I really like that look--wish it was available here. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 700 Registered: Dec-03 | Peychaud: I agree with the marantz recommendation, but stay away from the 4x00 series. It is a "value" unit that uses inferior parts and does not represent the Marantz line well, at all, IMO. Go for the 5x00 models, instead. The parts are better in almost all parts of the receiver, not just an upgrade in power. Good luck! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 383 Registered: Nov-05 | Hawk - we're all different. I saw the titanium finish and, with the plastic faceplates on the NADs, it just doesn't look real to me. It looks like titanium colored plastic whereas with the grey finish one would be hard pressed to tell imo. Actually I think my grey 162/272/542 kit looks fairly swish :-) I agree with you regarding the Marantz, the 5*** series up are worthy units. They all get decent reviews and my SR-7300 is still delivering the goods. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 705 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz: You are definitely one up on me as I have not seen the titanium finish units at all, just pictures. However, if they look like plastic in person, that would be a disappointment because the pictures look great and raised my expectations. Nevertheless, I too, am very satisfied with my 753 as it delivers the sound I want--everything else is just gravy. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 453 Registered: Feb-05 | As a proud HK owner I would say that their silver and black with blue led ring volume control is their most visually appealing design yet. Tough break on the NAD Art, the ones I auditioned were AC buzz free and were excellent with music although no better than the HK's for surround,actually not quite as good. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2861 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree with Hawk about the 4x00 series with respect to Marantz. The 5x00 series represents the best value for Marantz and even more importantly per the three Marantz dealers I know, it is their most reliable series. Better service record overall than the other Marantz receivers. As for the NAD, it turned out be a bonus for me. I traded it back to the dealer for my Audio Refinement CD Complete Alpha which with my Prima Luna Prologue 2 tube integrated have given me more pleasure and let me hear more music than any components I've ever owned. "All's well that ends well" and all of that good rot you know. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1696 Registered: Dec-04 | Have you spun any vinyl, Art? |
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New member Username: PeychaudPost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-06 | Thanks for all the comments. They've been very helpful. I'm starting to narrow down my focus to three products: HK AVR 340, NAD T743 and Marantz SR5600. I chose these models primarily for their price ($400-$600 is my range), so if I'm missing something, let me know. I really need to audition the NAD. All the negative comments worry me and I wonder whether my ear is sophisticated enough to appreciate its superior performance on music, especially with mere Athena speakers (And, unfortunately, I probably won't be able to upgrade the speakers for a few years). As for the HK, there's a question on its website about its multiroom capacity and HK's answer is that it's only capable of transmitting an analog signal to its B speakers, so if you've got your CD or DVD hooked up via digital or optical cable, you need to also hook it up via analog output. This would be a problem for me since I stream a lot of music from my laptop via iTunes and Airport Express, which connects to my receiver with a single optical cable. If I'm to understand HK's response correctly, that means no A+B capability when I'm streaming digital audio. Finally, as I mentioned, my speakers are Athena B2 bookshelf speakers. Does any brand fit those better than any other? Should I expand my options to include a Denon? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4002 Registered: Dec-03 | By the way, Peychaud, if you have enough speakers you can experiment with 5.1 even without a player; Airport Express will stream 5.1 DTS files from iTunes to the receiver's digital audio input via the Toslink optical cable. The files can be on your computer hard disk or anywhere you like. You have to get the iTunes settings right; uncompressed files in .wav format with no equalization or other gizmos in place. The receiver then detects the format and does the rest. |
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New member Username: PeychaudPost Number: 5 Registered: Mar-06 | Thanks John, By "5.1 DTS files," I assume you mean the "low res" surround sound mix included most DVD-As to play on standard DVD players, right? Or do you mean there's a way to stream the "high res" DVD-A files that would ordinarily require a DVD-A capable player? What do you use to import the songs as .wav files? Can you use iTunes? Sorry to be so dense. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2863 Registered: Feb-05 | I have indeed Nuck but let's not hijack this thread. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1706 Registered: Dec-04 | I send e-mail. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 417 Registered: Jul-05 | Just reading along. AS far as matching receivers to AThenas in a room with hard woods, your best bet for music is a tube based integrated, but out of the price range of 400-600. Just a mention to stim some thought about acoustics. That frivolity aside, the Integra 105 is a card based never obsolete receiver. The never obsolete part comes in when considering the upcoming Dolby True HD DTS-HD and Dolby -HD formats in the hi def DVDs just coming into market. IN about two years, my guess is Hid def DVDs will be standard for audio and video, suported by all of the 1080P displays and new audio formats. I have no idea how much an Integra 105 costs however. The Pioneer VSX1015TX is a 7.1 capable receiever that is decent enough at 379 MSRP. The HK AVR 240, under your budget, is fine as well, if you accept the increased HK fiddle factor and quality assurance issues. I saw you mention the HK 340 upstairs there. Going up a step, the Yamaha HTR 5890 multi zone capable receiever is a nice choice as well. Its in the 450-800 range ( sorry dont know exactly). It can take 5.1 soundtracks and simulate 7.1 as well, probably not useful for you but kinda interesting. Just a word on receivers- if you are trying to be in the ballpark for the near future, your receiver really needs to accept HDMI native. With the unfortunate emphasis on copy protection, the days of full rez analog connections for DVDs, both for audio and video and gradually disappearing. The current version of HDMI is 1.3. should be around for awhile too. My own choice for an AVR is a Denon becuase I like the straight forward use, reliability and bass managament. I dont hear any major differences in audio myself among the Yamahas, Pioneers, Denons and HKs mentioned here. as they are all relatively close compared to the more exepnsive audiophile stuff. My two cents. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4009 Registered: Dec-03 | Peychaud, Here is a thread on this forum (not "Official"): Home Theater > Home Theater Computers > Official Airport Express Thread. Here is a link to an Apple "How to" page: Playing DTS audio files with iTunes. I found it worked with Dolby Digital, too. But that is not "hi-res". DTS is a "hi-res" 5.1 audio format. I do not think this method will work with true DVD-A, however, where the decoding is done in the player, and the signal is passed to the receiver by analogue cables. One day computers will have that capability, too, I expect. There is no technical problem- it is to do with "Digital Rights Agreements". SACD? No way. The files are protected like Fort Knox. |
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New member Username: PeychaudPost Number: 6 Registered: Mar-06 | Thanks for all the incisive comments. And thanks for the not so incisive comments, too. Here's my updated "possibilities" list and a quick, random price check. Any comments on their relative bangs for the buck? I was trying to stay within the $400 to $600 range but like any quasi-obsessive, I'm willing to go a little bit higher if I get a disproportionate jump in performance. A big issue with me is whether or not the receiver can transmit a signal from a digital source to remote speakers. I didn't think that was even a question until I saw that the HK, apparently, doesn't. Unless I'm totally misunderstanding the situation. Harmon Kardon AVR 340 $494.99 etronics.com NAD T 743 A/V Receiver $699 MSRP Marantz SR 5600 $599 Yamaha HTR 5890 $454.99 Denon AVR 2807 (yet unreleased? too expensive?) Denon AVR 3805 $784 Pioneer VSX1015TX $370 Yamaha RX-V657 $399.00 TIA! |
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New member Username: EggbertPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | I recently purchased INport products to record LPs and cassettes to my computer from stereo. Then I realized I had no outputs on my receiver (Teac AG790A.) Any suggestions? Or could anyone recommend a good receiver for under $300 with proper outputs. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 876 Registered: Dec-03 | The RX-V657 is probably Yamaha's best receiver at the price point. You get a good power supply, video upconversion, and their YPAO speaker balancing system and EQ. Plus you can find it online below $350. It doesn't have firewire or HDMI, but one could add a Sherwood Newcastle HSB-6501 HDMI-Link component to convert any component video input into an HDCP-compliant HDMI output. If it works as advertised it would be a great device at MSRP $299. This way consumers wouldn't have to worry too much about the latest HDMI upgrade, as they would only be out $299. When HDMI 1.3 arrives in a year or so one could replace the unit (if so desired) with a new model and keep your receiver. The Denon 2807 looks like a great receiver and better than the more expensive Denon 3806. That said, it lists at $1,100 (although one should be able to get it online at around $900), so it is tough to compare with the much cheaper receivers you have listed above. It comes with XM radio (just add an XM antenna and pay the XM fee), Audyssey MultiEQ for speaker and acoustic balancing, 1080p HDMI video switching and 480p upconversion of analog video sources. Probably the Pioneer Elite 72 or 74 are one of the few (or only) receivers to compare at this price. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1278 Registered: Sep-04 | Hawk, Sorry for the late reply. Yes we do have a Titanium finish but as mentioned elsewhere it's not exactly a quality look. In some ways it's better than the grey, but there is something understated about the grey which is classier. Neither look comes close to the other Japs in my view. It's a shame since I really rate the NADs. That said, looking at the prices above, the price quoted for the 3805 is fabulous from my point of view (it used to retail at about $1600 here) even though it's been replaced by the 3806. That's a lot of receiver for the money and the 3805 is a fine receiver. The 2807 will probably retail for similar money. Personally I rather like the look of the HKs but then I remember the predecessors and that was relatively flimsy by comparison. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: PeychaudPost Number: 9 Registered: Mar-06 | I've got a few more beginner type questions. I've seen a few references to Marantz being a "warm" or "laid back." I'm assuming that's why a few people have said it would be a good match for my Athena AS B2 bookshelf speakers, because Athena's are so bright? What if I wanna upgrade to a pair of Alegria Emmas next year? Is Marantz--or NAD--still a good match? I'm starting to look seriously at Marantz and I'm wondering if there are any significant differences between the SR5400, SR5500 and SR5600 that I should be aware of? Also, what exactly is the difference between A/B switching and multi-room/multi-source output? I kind of thought they were same... Finally, what the general take on refurbished vs. new? Are there any compelling reasons to go one way or the other? Thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 920 Registered: Apr-05 | Frank who do you work for? You don't have to mention names, but is it a manufacturer or a re-seller? |