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New member Username: Tony_zDuBois, PA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | I am a sometime lurker and am only posting to ask for an opinion. I have a Yamaha RX497 stereo receiver, two Large Advents (professionally re-coned) and a Kenwood CD changer (cheap Sam's Club model). Given my equipment, would it make any difference (sound quality wise) to replace the CD player with something like a Marantz CC4300 or Denon DCM290? Thanks for your help! Tony Z. |
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Bronze Member Username: NadzCalifornia Post Number: 33 Registered: Aug-05 | Possibly. The speakers in your system are the limiting factor. While a great speaker in there time. Speakers of today are far more transparent and revealing. Especially in the mid and high frequency department. Give one a try and see. If you dont notice a difference return the player. On a side note look at the Denon DCM390(Much better Burr Brown DAC's) instead. It is a far better model and worth every penny. The Marantz is a great unit as well as the Onkyo DCX-390(I think this is the model #)Check the Onkyo site for info. |
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New member Username: Tony_zDuBois, PA USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Jul-06 | Thanks for the suggestions. My Advents are nearly 30 years old and have served me well. Given that this system is for music only and not constantly, anyone care to offer some speaker suggestions that are reasonable in price? Room size is about 12' X 10' x 9' ceiling. Carpeted, drapery and plastered walls & ceiling. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3611 Registered: Dec-04 | Tony, can you pick out the qualities of your present speakers that you appreciate most? If you shop somewhere other than Sam's, you might get hold of any number of players off the used rack to try...this means dealer. A better set of cables might open things up a lot as well, and just might let you appreciate the kit you now have. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4441 Registered: Dec-03 | If they are in good condition, I am not so sure you will do better than mid-70s Advent speakers without spending a lot - much more than you might spend on a CD player that will make a difference. I recently bought a Rega Apollo CD player and it really is good. There are many others that will totally upstage a cheap Kenwood I suspect. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3634 Registered: Dec-04 | I agree with John's suspicions. Do test a set of cables, though. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1709 Registered: Feb-04 | I also don't think the Advent are the weak link, but the caps in the crossovers might need to be replaced for best results. Likely more change than swapping CD players, and fewer bucks. |
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Bronze Member Username: NadzCalifornia Post Number: 34 Registered: Aug-05 | Speakers to look at that are quite reasonable in price come from many manufactures. Try looking at PSB, Paradigm, B&W, Energy, and Athena. This is just a few names to begin with but they all have speakers for all budgets that sound quite good. Despite what some believe. Speakers make the most profoud difference in how a system sounds. The room and placement of the speakers are equally important as well. There have been huge improvements in speaker design in the past 30 years. A properly set up pair of monitor speakers on solid stands or floor standing speakers would sound considerably better than the Advents. While the Advents where outstanding in their time they just can't offer the detail, midrange dynamics or transparency of a good monitor or floor standing speaker. If you could give a price range and type of speaker your looking for. More specific suggestions on models could be made. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8919 Registered: May-04 | . "There have been huge improvements in speaker design in the past 30 years." Pucker pucks!!! http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/171advent/ http://stereophile.com/historical/506advent/ Certainly the Advents have limitations. Any speaker has limitations and most particularly a budget line speaker. However, it is not the limitations of the speaker that should be addressed here. It is what Tony hears. To make a suggestion to change anything without having the slightest idea what Tony listens for or even what sort of music he listens to is absurd. You assume he listens just the way you do and I can assure you that probably isn't the case. And I know no more about Tony than you do, but I do know almost every client I spoke to had a different sense of what music sounds like than the guy before him or the guy after him. If you want to make some suggestions, make suggestions which might help Tony and not just get him thinking he should begin replacing components to suit your taste. Ask some questions and get some amnswers. Then choose your answers based on what Tony tells you rather than just spouting off about what you like. Try to help somebody and not just get them to buy the stuff you own. Tony, give us a few answers here. Other than it fit your budget or "it sounded OK", why did you buy the stuff you presently own? What sort of music do you listen to and how do you,listen? Do you sit down and do nothing but listen to music? Or, do you use music as background most of the time? What makes you curious about a new CD player? Is there something you think you need to improve in your system or are you just interested in a change? Can you describe the sound you have right now? What's the best thing it does? What's the least likeable thing it does now? . |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 697 Registered: Nov-05 | And finally Tony, where were you on the night of the 21st? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4442 Registered: Dec-03 | Objection, your honor. What are the "huge improvements in speaker design", NADz? I am sceptical. Speaker design has mostly been aimed at reducing manufacturing cost. But Advent set the benchmark for perfomance/price in the first place. Or so I read. Jan's many questions make sense, but your question, Tony, was "would it make any difference (sound quality wise)...?" So we have some idea of what you are looking for. Jan, could you eventually comment on the receiver, too? I recall you thought there were good Yamaha amps years ago, and this is one item that may have got worse with time. For some purposes (hasty qualification). |
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New member Username: Tony_zDuBois, PA USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Jul-06 | Well, first things last, middle things whenever! On the night of the 21st, I was on my back porch (Yamaha outdoor speakers) drinking mass quantities of Rolling Rock pony bottles (another story, another time). When the Rock was finished, I then "mixed in" a few Guiness and Heineken. Music wise, I'm 53, and still tied into the late 60's, 70's and some 80's, primarily The Dead, with some Neil Young, Dylan, Byrds, etc. I also have a significant number of classical CD's (don't ask me classical questions such as composers and name of songs). I've had Dark Side of the Moon since it was released on vinyl, and also have a cassette and CD of the same. With my existing system, I had a pre-amp (Soundcraftsmen that succeeded a Hafler) and Nikko amp. The amp developed some weakness in the right channel, and that resulted me in buying the Yamaha receiver (RX497) to simplify the whole set-up. Not a lot of thought went into the receiver. Regarding the Kenwood CD player: it is a "cheapy"! It is a 5 CD platter type changer and noisier than my 6 year old (or my 24 and 26 year olds). It also "skips" on some CD's when the same CD doesn't skip on other players. I really hadn't thought about changing the speakers--quite frankly I like the warmth of the air suspension sound. I did put Monster Cable wiring on them several years ago, as I also put upgrade cables between the components. As it stands, I could justify the changing of the CD player just because of the "skipping" issue. As for the speakers, the placement in the room would have more effect on the sound than new speakers. However, SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) refuses to let me move the speakers! So the next question: how did I end up on this forum and why? Well, back in the early 70's through the late 70's (when SWMBO came into the picture) stereo equipment dominated my life. I still have a collection somewhere of Stereo Review, Audio, High Fidelity and maybe a couple Absolute Sound laying around. Today in the computer age, you don't go to Barnes and Noble to look for info, you just find your nearest forum! Of the three or so audio forums I've discovered, I like this one the best. So, I'll probably lurk around a while, listen and learn and from time to time ask some dumb question to help my make the transition to the 21st century. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3645 Registered: Dec-04 | Hehe, thanks for the update, Tony. I agree that changes in materials have made advances in speaker performance. Capacitors alone have come from wet paper to polypropylene or plasma cell in some cases. Stiff paper has been replaced with poly or Kevlar or some really exotic materials. Cases are quite often contoured to wild shapes to improve the handling of waves and harmonics using super computers rather than a slide rule and a square box. So, yes, old and new may perform the same function, in a 'four wheels and an engine' type of way, but the new stuff can be really cool. One of the best kits I ever heard in a regular home was a set of Advent paper 3-ways and a Marantz receiver, all Circa 1975. That was last year! I might pull up Peter's suggestion of recapping the crossovers, theres a little bit of new tech to move you along. Modest in cost and very DIY friendly, I think you will be very happy with the results. But thats just me. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3646 Registered: Dec-04 | The Marantz 4300 you ante'd with has rather good reputation with several knowledgeable folks, BTW. |
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New member Username: Tony_zDuBois, PA USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Jul-06 | Some additional comments and/or questions: What happened on the 21st???? Anyhow, to respond a bit more fully to some of Jan's questions, our music is more "background" then anything. Why did I buy this stuff in the first place? I liked the sound and also the speaker size! Remember, I was a college boy and I needed "honking" big speakers for my apartment to impress the few "visitors" I could lure. Didn't realize that I would have done better with the ladies if I would have spend my money on them instead of on stereo equipment and records! In the present day situation: the Large Advents are in our small living room and act to provide background music unless there is a "gathering" the sort of degenerates into a bunch of whooping, hollering and dancing. I have Yamaha NS-AW150 on the back porch. Very nice sounding outdoor speakers that probably owe much of the sound to the accidentally good placement at the ceiling/wall juncture. In my basement shop I have a pair of ten year old Polks. They are very nice sounding, angular shaped bookshelf speakers ($200 for the pair??). What irritates me the most about the existing system? Probably the skips on CD's and the noise and slowness of the changer mechanism. What do I envision as my wants in a system? Years ago I would have died for Magnepans (did I spell that correctly?). I always felt the speakers were the most tangible part of the sound system. Today, given that I have so very little lattitude in deciding what goes where in our home, that no matter what I would choose, I would probably be told forget it. We have an old Georgian style home, very formal and fairly large. It is a typical center hall entry home and because of that it has a fairly chopped up layout. We have a Sony 35" rear projection TV as our local cable company does not have much in HDTV yet. My wife is hot for a flat panel TV, so I got some real potential there for some serious system additions! May have to get the Acountimass 7's out of the attic! Just kidding--that Bose purchase and a Pioneer AV receiver ten years ago was the worst purchase of my life. The receiver was the most un-user friendly piece of crap I have ever seen and the Bose speakers just didn't do anything. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3659 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey Tony, anytime your wife gets hot for any A/V stuff is one to be pursued. Really you might wanna check inta a set of caps for the XO's. Are you handy enough to give that a go? If you need a hand on getting caps, Tim is great here. I never thought, here's Tim's company website. www.alegriaaudio.com |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8926 Registered: May-04 | . What happens on the 21st, stays on the 21st. Though I can't say the idea of blending all three labels within the gastrointestinal tract is my idea of fun. Buy enough Rolling Rock next time, Tony. Or, just switch to kegs. Given the present system and its typical useage, I would say the CD player swap will get you what you want. A better player should have less skips and noise. Though CD changers are relatively noisey to begin with. I would suggest a single play unit for any semi-serious listening and use the Ipod or such for jukebox operations when background music is required. But you know what works best. I don't get the feeling you sit and listen intently enough to warrant discusssing soundstage and imaging in a speaker system so I would continue to use the Advents. There are some very nice small satellite systems (not Bose) which use a subwoofer for the bass response. At some point you might look into a new set of speakers to free up some space and possibly get something new in sound quality. But that's another issue. Here's something you might consider; https://www.ecoustics.com/reviews/alegriaaudio-ling/ If the receiver works for you, I think it's as good as is required for now. There are better here also, but you would have to be a bit more intent on listening to find which amplifier set up would perform better than your receiver. Having had the Hafler and Soundcraftsman you should have an idea what separate amplifiers can do for your system. If you're happy with the Yamaha right now, that's all that counts. Fianally, I would suggest part of your skipping problem might be not only the relative value of the CD player but your location for siting it. If the player gets significant feedback from the speakers, even digital sources will "skip". You might try isolating the player before you head out to buy something new. Not to get you to not buy something new, but just so you don't get home and have the same problem. When SWMBO finds you've spent money for something that has the same problem, you can catch lots of grief. Establish whether the problem is in the player or the position before you buy. Don't mention anything to her until you bring home the new player and you have the feedback problem licked. You'll look like a bloomin' genius. . |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4449 Registered: Dec-03 | What a pleasure to read this thread. My Rantz; fancy a beer...? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8929 Registered: May-04 | . "One of the best kits I ever heard in a regular home was a set of Advent paper 3-ways and a Marantz receiver, all Circa 1975." Check back, Nuck. Advent didn't make three ways in 1975. . |
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Bronze Member Username: FatelvisPost Number: 45 Registered: Feb-06 | He heard them in '75... didn't buy them. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3663 Registered: Dec-04 | Circa best of my knowledge. |
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Silver Member Username: FtalifePost Number: 123 Registered: Jul-06 | Good reviews https://www.ecoustics.com/home-audio/ |