seems from what i see that this is especially true in stereo and home theatre equipment. otherwise why would anyone spend 6 grand for a pair of quads when a 300 dollar pair of bose would be just as good. or why would you buy a 2 thousand dollar marantz reciever when the 200 dollar panasonic would be just as good.
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edster would have you believe that the 200 dollar phanny is just as good as a 2000 + reciever due to manufacturing efficientcies, most of us realize that his logic is flawed at best. Corollas and bentleys are both manufactured using toyota's lean philosophy, but in actuality which auto would we prefer if we could aford such? The phanny is just what it is, a 200 buck receiver mass produced for the entry market. I would think that your 2000 buck marantz will be more satisfying in all areas.
Bill - You seem to remember the days when you could buy a $400 receiver that would last for thirty years. I have a difficult time believing that most of the mass market product being sold today will be around in half that time. And yet the manufacturers would have you believe the price of electronics have come down in the last three decades. By that logic there should be tax cuts financed by borrowing from other countries. No .. wait ... scratch that, that's not a good example; too many people believe in those tax cuts for their own benefit.
However you wish to rationalize spending your money, there will always be someone who suggests you could have done better if only you'd followed their advice. In a market such as audio where you are often times buying more than just a product, value is not an easily defined quality. The audio magazines will proclaim a $5,000 CD player as good value while most of us discuss which player under $500 will give the best performance. What do you get for your extra $4,500? Well, the easiest thing to say is you get what you pay for.
As with most things audio is a market where you can establish a point of diminishing return. But that point will shift along a line tied to your income and your interest. The income portion of the equation is simple to understand; the interest portion might be a bit more vague. Will the extra $4,500 get you a better built component? Most certainly. More reliability? Let's hope so. Will there be a more visceral feel to the controls? Most likely. Will its aesthetic appeal give more pleasure? Probably. Will it sound better? That is where the debate heats up.
To engage even one side of that debate would take substantial amounts space. To give equal weight to both sides is a discourse that has never found a conclusion; only acrimony. If you stay on the forum long enough, you'll see the main points discussed many times. Overall I think you'll find most everyone in agreement to your statement. However, everyone will have their own point of dimishing returns that establishes where they feel "value" begins and ends.
My feeling has been to listen for the most musical value (according to my set list of values) in any price range and then prioritize the rest of the buying decision. That equation is not what other people might wish to follow.
December 8, 2005 In Judging DVD Players, Performance Is in Details By ERIC A. TAUB
Robert Stuart, the co-founder of Meridian Audio Ltd., would be very happy if people bought his company's Model 800 DVD player. And with prices starting at $19,950, he does not need to sell that many to keep him in good spirits.
Meridian, based in Huntingdon, England, manufactures what it says it believes is the world's most expensive DVD playback machine. The price ratio between it and the ubiquitous $50 machines is greater than that between a Lamborghini and a Toyota Corolla.
Mr. Stuart believes that to ask why anyone would spend that much for a player is not the right question. "In a sense, you should ask, 'What do you get for so little?' " he said.
The Model 800 represents what some believe to be the pinnacle in audio and video processing technologies: it plays video recorded in the American NTSC and European PAL systems, and uses proprietary software to decode the audio, complex processing to increase picture resolution and extra buffer memory to ensure that the disc is read properly.
"Typically, people plug in our player and say 'Wow,' " Mr. Stuart said.
But according to many of Mr. Stuart's mass-market competitors, you can often get a lot for quite a bit less.
DVD has superseded VHS tape as a recorded medium of choice primarily because of its superior picture quality. When the format arrived in 1996, players cost $1,000. Today, models from the best-known brands often cost no more than $50; second-tier brands are even less. RCA's entire line encompasses retail prices from $49 to $99. Sony's mass-market players range from $79 to $199. DVD recorders are readily available for around $200, though their popularity as a replacement for VHS recorders has been challenged by TiVo-like digital video recorders.
Still, companies like Denon and Meridian have developed a business selling considerably costlier players.
If you watch DVD's on a small, standard analog set, industry executives agree there is little reason to buy anything more than a low-priced DVD player. On a little tube TV, it is likely that picture and sound quality will be as good coming from a $50 machine as from a $5,000 one.
Digital HDTV's, on the other hand, with their much higher screen resolutions, and larger analog TV's with component video inputs have raised the performance bar. To get the best picture and sound from these picture tube, rear-projection, and flat-panel models, you will need a DVD player with higher specifications.
And with HDTV set sales taking off, the desire for better performance has grown. Here are some key differences in DVD players to consider.
Video Processing
While standard specifications govern how all DVD signals are compressed and recorded, "how you get video out of the player differs," according to Jeff Talmadge, marketing manager for Denon Electronics U.S.A.
Video signals need to be decompressed and are often converted to analog signals before being sent to a TV display. Inferior chip sets can create more picture noise, making pictures look fuzzy, with less-well-defined gradations and a lower-contrast, muddy look.
"With inferior video processing, you can see speckles in a blue sky that are not there, or a loss in shadow detail that decreases a perception of depth," said Phil Abram, the home audio and video vice president for marketing at Sony Electronics.
Processing chips by companies like Faroudja and Silicon Optix are promoted as offering superior video processing compared with generic technologies. One or the other of these chips is incorporated in all Denon models, except for its lowest-priced ($149) model. A Faroudja video processor is also available in two of Panasonic's models, the DVD-S77S ($249) and the DVD-S97S ($300).
In addition, the more chips that are used for individual processing tasks, the better the picture. Less expensive models may combine all processing in one chip, increasing picture noise. At the other extreme, the 800 model from Meridian uses 25 chips for video processing.
Up-Conversion
True high-definition DVD players are due to hit the market sometime next year, but their future is marred by a format war between two incompatible technologies: HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Both formats will be pricey at first, with players around $1,000.
Meanwhile, more expensive DVD players offer what is called HD up-conversion: the circuitry tries to increase an image's resolution by interpolating the existing picture, adding additional lines of information so that it resembles a true HDTV picture. The system is available only with players that have HDMI outputs, and its effects can be seen only on HDTV displays. How good a job the player can do in approximating a high-definition image varies, depending on the quality of the circuitry.
Denon claims that the Silicon Optix chip used in its $3,500 DVD5910 model produces a picture "that is almost the same as HD," Mr. Talmadge said.
Playback Capability
The first DVD players could handle discs only in the CD, DVD and VCD formats. Today, even the lowest-priced machines, like the $80 DVP-NS50P from Sony, play many more formats, like recordable CD's, DVD's and MP3's.
DVD-Audio and SA-CD are two higher-quality surround-sound formats used for audio recordings. The Denon DVD1920 ($369) can handle both. A Sony model, the $199 DVP-NS90V, is compatible with SA-CD discs, and the $130 Panasonic DVD-F87K/S can play DVD-Audio.
In addition to convenience, the ability to handle multiple formats may provide a better viewing experience, according to Mr. Abram at Sony Electronics. "Because you have different specifications and tolerances for each format, multiple playback capabilities give you a more robust drive," he said. "The image is less likely to skip."
HDMI
To remove the jungle of wires typically needed to connect a DVD to a TV and surround-sound receiver, the electronics industry has introduced HDMI, a digital technology that eliminates the need for separate audio and video cables in a high-definition setup. To use this feature, video displays and amplifiers must also have HDMI inputs.
RCA offers HDMI only on its most expensive DVD player, the $99 DRC255N. Similarly, Panasonic, whose models start at $70, currently offers HDMI starting with its $250 DVD-S77S unit. But HDMI connections are likely to trickle down to less-expensive models.
Audio
As gold is an excellent conductor of electricity and immune to oxidation, higher-priced DVD players often use gold connectors for their audio outputs.
For the sound to be conveyed to speakers, the audio must first pass through a digital-to-audio converter. The converter's bit rate and sampling frequency can determine the sound quality. Mr. Abram of Sony recommends buying a player that produces 24-bit resolution and a 192-kilohertz sampling frequency.
Fortunately, these specs are not difficult to find on even low-cost machines, including the $70 Panasonic DVD-S29S and $80 Sony DVP-NS50P.
Spotting the Specs
A model's various specifications may be printed on the product's box, on the company's Web site, or perhaps nowhere at all. Product reviews from enthusiast magazines like The Perfect Vision can help establish whether the features and technologies match your desires.
On the other hand, it is easy just to take a favorite DVD disc to a store and watch it on a TV similar to one you own. Because in deciding on video equipment, there are two sources you can count on: your eyes and your ears.
"Will the extra $4,500 get you a better built component? Most certainly."
How about the arguement that the extra $4500 will buy you a lot of advertising?
You should see the giant Bose sign plastered just last weekend at the enterance of one of the largest train stations in Chicago. Perhaps I will take a picture and put it in here.
I think the argument could be made that "high end" Bose products are not the engine that drives Bose's profits nor advertising budget.
I'm not arguing against the fact that many companies spend large amounts on advertising while other companies struggle along on word of mouth goodwill. It is your example that I find suspect.
But, if we are going to include advertising in the cost of a component, should we not include other issues of overhead? How much should we contribute to the health care and pension plan of the manufacturer? therefore, wouldn't we be better off buying only the components made in third world countries where there is little invested in worker benefit costs?
In reality, there just aren't that many ads run anywhere outside of the audio press that advertise the advantages of owning a Rowland Research, Red Rose or VTL amplifier. They are, however, among some of the pricey lines that can be argued give maximum "value" for the dollar.
Yes there are a lot of overheads in running a business. However some companies have a large advertising budget as part of their business plan to create an image and their product pricing is based on their target audience that buys into the image rather than other factors such as quality components, engineering etc.
Unfortunately A/V is not my business, just a hobby that I try to keep up with. You however have been in it for a long time. What are your favorites on either end of the spectrum?