Any thoughts on Quad 21L or NHT ST4?
|
New member Username: Will22Vancouver, British Colu... Canada Post Number: 3 Registered: Oct-05 | Hi there, as per recommendation I have gained interest in the Quad 21L's. Any thoughts on the performance, both pro's & con's, of this speaker? Furthermore, is NHT a respectable, legitimate company? I've heard good things about their SB3 & ST4 speakers. The thing with the ST4's that intrigues me is their dual chamber. Will this make them boomy or bloated? Thanks. |
|
Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 144 Registered: Oct-04 | NHT is a respectable, ligitimate company, and it has it's fans, but I'm not one of them. I found the SB3's to sound "bloated" with the mids very "muddy". The EPOS ELS-3's are a highly praised speaker at this price point, as are the ASCEND CBM-170's & the PARADIGM Mini Monitors. |
|
Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 145 Registered: Oct-04 | The Quad 21L's are quite a bit more expensive than the SB3's though. |
|
New member Username: Will22Vancouver, British Colu... Canada Post Number: 5 Registered: Oct-05 | Thanks for the post Christopher. Great evidence of how subjective sound is to the listener. I have heard opposite things about the SB3's from others, but I equally respect the opinions that come from both sides which sort of leaves me back at square one (until I get to hear them). Does this bloat & muddiness apply to the ST4's as well? The Ascend 170's look like a spitting image of those SB3's. Regardless, both the Ascend's & Epos look like well manufactured speakers. However one thing I noticed is that they both do not reach the same range down to the low 40's as presented by the NHT's. Now I know stated frequency ranges as given by the manufacturer should be taken with a grain of salt and that they don't tell the whole story. But still...does this mean the Epos or the CBM will need to be paired with a small sub? For example, piano music is a great test of a speaker. By the way, I think one of the best reference pieces for any speaker is "Mazeppa" by Liszt. This song has embaressed most of the speakers that i've listened to that have tried to reproduce it; it's not even funny. I need a speaker that'll be able to reproduce the tight punch/forwardness that songs like Mazeppa deliver. Or else the old lady will be pissed off at me for wasting money. Anyway, how's the quality of the Ascend's? A lot of people on these threads seem to be pushing products like Aperion which seem kinda skimpy to me. But I'm not accusing you Chris of being a salesman. Thanks, Will |
|
Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 147 Registered: Oct-04 | Aperion (I did not recommend them), they are an internet-only company, and while I see a lot of their pop-up ads (particularly on websites that they sponsor), I don't see a lot of people pushing their products. Aperion seems to be decent entry-level speakers, with very good build quality. I was considering the 522D LR's, but have reconsidered. I don't own the Ascends or the Epos, and since Ascend is an internet-only company, I don't know about them first hand. However, they've received nothing but praise by many independent reviewers. I'm sure the build quality is above average or excellent. I am considering the Epos ELS3's ($275.) myself. Now maybe this was unfair, but I listen to the NHT SB3's side-by-side with the likes Paradigm Studio 20's (one of the best speakers under $1000.), and I total disregarded the NHT SB3's, They were are I described, unimpressive. I don't know about the ST4's, but I'm no longer considering the NHT's, I may just wind-up saving for the Paradigm Studio 20's. Any of these bookshelf speakers with excel with the addition of a respectable subwoofer. If you can afford any of the Paradigm Reference Studio series speakers, I would give the a long audition. |
|
New member Username: WillfiPost Number: 5 Registered: Oct-05 | Christopher I had a pair of Sudio20 v3 that I replaced with Quad 21L's. I would recommend you to try out the Quad 12L bookshelf as well as I find they can do tricks that the Studios can't. The studio 20's sound great at first, but after a year of ownership I found a lot of shortcomings that led me to change them. Also around the same league is the Epos 12.2 which are also better than the Studio 20's IMO. |
|
Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 155 Registered: Oct-04 | Hard to track down all these models (especially in one place), but I'll keep trying. I was floored by the Studio 20 v3's, so I would love to listen to a good rival. Do you agree that the NHT SB3's are unimpressive? |
|
New member Username: WillfiPost Number: 10 Registered: Oct-05 | The sb3's are fine if there powered by tubes, but there not the best with the solid states that i tried. Very picky speaker in which both source and amplification have to match up with them well, heck even the speaker cables greatly affect there sound. |
|
Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 156 Registered: Oct-04 | Fine is just, well?...fine. The Epos ELS-3 & Ascend CBM-170's are reputed to be exceptional. A fussy speaker at this price-point is not worth it, IMO. I must assume all the speakers were similarly "juiced-up" & "tied-down", so I think it was a case of comparing apples to apples. |
|
Bronze Member Username: WillfiPost Number: 12 Registered: Oct-05 | Personally I wouldn't purchase any of them, as I am sold on the Quads  . However, I do believe that when partnered with the proper equipment the nht's can do certain things that other speaker's can't, but I would never purchase them myself. When I auditioned them I found that they were very relaxed, but gave a pretty holographic presentation compared to most speakers I have listened to. |
|
Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 158 Registered: Oct-04 | Everyone's entitled to their opinion. |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2009 Registered: Feb-05 | Will, what were you driving those Studio 20's with? |
|
Bronze Member Username: WillfiPost Number: 13 Registered: Oct-05 | I had originally partnered them up with a NAD c350 amp and c542 CD. Then I started upgrading and ended up with a Creek 5350se on them after trying several other amps - Arcam A85, Naim 5i?, a tube integrated?. I was lucky enough to bring the amps home and try and thats when I started to find the Studio 20's shortcomings as at the dealers when they demo'd me those amps on higher end speakers I began to understand what hi-fi sound was all about. After owning the Studio 20's I would classify them as a happy speaker, they tend to make all music sound full of life - even recordings that were darker/duller. Like alot of people I didn't know what I wanted exactly when I first purchased the speakers, and having grown with them I now know alot more of what I want, and can now shop for equipment that meets my needs. |
|
Bronze Member Username: WillfiPost Number: 15 Registered: Oct-05 | Christopher I noticed a link on another mesage : http://www.dependableaudiovideo.com/ .Since they carry Wharfedale they should be able to bring in the Quads as there from the same company/distributor. Hope they can bring in a 12L or 21L for you to audition, you surely won't be dissapointed if you like Jazz/Acoustical. |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2015 Registered: Feb-05 | Will, that gives me a little more info, thanks. The Studio's are great speakers but like all other audio components it's easy to upgrade or grow out of them. If I owned Naim gear I would probably start longing for different speakers. They do work quite well with some tube amps and with Audio Research gear. A friend of mine has a hybrid AR pre amp and a Hafler 9505 power amp with his Studio 60's and it sounds very good. |
|
New member Username: Will22Vancouver, British Colu... Canada Post Number: 7 Registered: Oct-05 | Will, thanks for the unbiased Paradigm post. I've read so many threads where people relentlessly talk up the Paradigm Studio 20's. I'm sure they're great and I really want to support them seeing that they're a Canadian manufacturer, but there is life beyond Paradigm. My take is this: if Paradigms sound that great, and you're saying that there are speakeres like Quad, Epos, Ascend etc.. that sound just as good and bring something slightly different to the table, then I'm all open ears. I guess I'll tick off those NHT's off the list. Besides, I don't think there are any places in Vancouver that carry them so I wouldn't even be able to hear them. I'm going to drag the old lady around with me this weekend to hear some speakers. There are some nice looking speakers on accessories4less.com & dependableaudiovideo.com. Do they ship to Canada? They're not very specific with their information. |
|
Bronze Member Username: WillfiPost Number: 17 Registered: Oct-05 | William, I really enjoyed the Paradigms when I had them, but like I said I now have the experience to know what I need from my Stereo. In fact I have been very biased in my life towards the Paradigm line up since I was introduced to one of the owners, Jerry Vandermarel. In fact, I got to tour the factory back in 1996 and that was truly amazing. The anechoic chamber was massive and the facility is huge! I have since been to the new Mississagua factory and this is even more crazy as it takes up a complete block for the building! The reason for my recommendation of the Quads is that your description of what you want from your stereo is similar to mine. I love listening to Jazz and Classical, with a mix of everything else thrown in. |
|
Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 174 Registered: Oct-04 | William H, I would agree that there are several worthwhile companies make exceptional speakers today other than Paradigm. However, the Studio 20's are THAT good, and that is the reason why they get "talked-up" so much on this board. I've found the opinions, and more so, the overall discussions on this board to be mostly unbiased & educational. Again though, people everywhere WANT to re-enforce their decisions by talking-up the products they've already purchased, that's why so many consumer reviews tend to be positive. And as for professional reviews, I think many are tainted by advertising $$$ from manufacturers. It's very hard to find a pro review that's out & out critical and/or negative. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. |
|
Bronze Member Username: WillfiPost Number: 19 Registered: Oct-05 | Chris, here's some measurements on the Studio 20's if you haven't seen them yet. http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/paradigm_studio20_v3/ Great frequency response except for on axis where there's a considerable dip at around 12khz (-7db). Also between 1khz and 2.5 Khz theres over a 90deg phase shift - right at Crossover frequency which is something that you can clearly hear as a vocalist sings through this frequency region. I tend to think that the Canadian reviews of these speakers are on the lenient side as they wan't to promote Canadian, just my opinion though. |
|
milpai Unregistered guest | Quad 21L are very transparent and revealing loudspeakers. With properly matched equpments they are sonic bliss. Try to compare them with speakers costing atleast a $1000 more, and you will find that it is an amazing buy. It is very surprising that it is not a popular loudspeaker. Never even was on my audition list. But 1 listen to it at a dealer, who "also" carried Quads, and my ears decided what they wanted. Go for the Quad 21L. You will be amazed. |
|
New member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 5 Registered: Apr-05 | I own NHT SB3's and ST4's. I've had the SB3's for about 2 years and I got the ST4's less than a year ago. I'm driving them with a NAD C372 integrated amp and a C542 CD player. I would describe these NHT speakers as revealing and honest, others might say they are finicky and unforgiving. To describe the sound quality of the SB3's I would say that they image well, with a nice full midrange, and a little laid back in the mid-high frequency range. They have healthy amount of bass which has to be taken into consideration during placement, more so than with most speakers this size. For me this meant placing them on 24" speaker stands, 2-3 feet from any wall. This is probably sound advice for most speakers though. These speakers should appeal to people who like to experiment with their systems. It was easy for me to detect sonic changes when comparing speaker cables, interconnects, even equipment stands and isolation devices through these speakers. I have been quite happy with the SB3's. Good recordings of vocals, piano, and acoustic guitar sound exceptional IMHO. One quirky trait though, these speakers sound strange with the cloth grills removed. The singers and instruments sound like they are 1 inch wide while the width of the soundstage stays about normal. I said that I was happy with the SB3's, and I will keep them, but the ST4's blow the SB3's away. The ST4's maintain the positive qualities of the SB3's, good imaging and mids, but the ST4 towers have some real, seamless bass extension... definitely not boomy or bloated. That bass extension also adds an element of presence that makes it a much more satisfying speaker to listen to, especially on large orchestras with wide dynamic swings. I paid list price of $600 for the SB3's, and I think that was a fair price for speakers that sound as good as they do. Stands were another $100, so at $700 total I probably should have been looking at the ST4's to begin with. I was able to get the ST4's for around $750 shipped to my door, and I think that was an exceptional deal. NHT is coming out with new models that appear to be replacements for the SB3 and ST4 and they look awesome. But, the Four tower that will replace the ST4 is really in another price class at $1800 list. |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- A/V Receivers Forum
- Amps Forum
- Cassette Forum
- CD Players Forum
- CD Recorders Forum
- DAC & Transports Forum
- DVD-Audio & SACD Forum
- Equalizers Forum
- Integrated Amps Forum
- iPod Docks Forum
- MiniDisc Forum
- Mini Systems Forum
- Digital Music Systems Forum
- Phono Forum
- Preamps Forum
- Speakers Forum
- Subwoofers Forum
- Tuners Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics