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justwondering Unregistered guest | What do you guys prefer? I watch 70% music to 30% movies, and am using a HSU STF2 sub. I was going to go bookshelves, but since I then need stands, I started to wonder about floorstanding speakers? |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 276 Registered: Feb-05 | what type of music do you prefer? I know that people will say it doesnt matter, but some speakers are better at vocals, while some are better with the highs or the bass. secondly, what is your price range? I need to know before I give reccomendations. There are too many options without narrowing it down a little. However, One of my all time favorite affordable speakers is the Paradigm studio 20 stand mound. It is roughly $800 a pair, and has fantastic highs and mids. For a standmount, the bass has great presence as well, with no boom. The imaging is about as good as it gets at this price, provided they are set up properly. I will leave maggies out for the time being, because of the "head in a vice" syndrome, and they are very power hungry. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 277 Registered: Feb-05 | also, a standmount speaker the same price of a floorstander... The standmount will almost always be built better, and have better drivers. Therefore, it will (in theory) sound better. Being that you have a decent subwoofer, the bass concerns are not really something I would be worried about unless you go REALLY small on your mains. |
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justwondering Unregistered guest | Well I two of the many I was looking at were the Paradigm studio 20 and the MA RS6. So around $1000, but looking to go under. I can get those speakers at less than the msrp locally. Also looking at used speakers, MAGR10, Onix Ref1 etc. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 281 Registered: Feb-05 | what type(s) of music do you prefer? |
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justwondering Unregistered guest | I listen to pretty much everything. Usually not hard rock that often, and not much country. But top 40, jazz, rap, soft rock, a little opera. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2787 Registered: Mar-05 | jw, look into the CMT-340s and CBM-170s from ascendacoustics.com, read up on their reviews. Better yet, log onto their users' forum and see if you can find an Ascend owner near you who'll let you come listen. The Ascends blend beautifully with Hsu subs and are very easy to drive. |
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justwondering Unregistered guest | Edster, Do you think the Ascends can compete with the MA Gold Series or the Onix Ref's? I should mention I have a pretty small room, around 12x18, but the area actually seems smaller |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2788 Registered: Mar-05 | jw, When I was shopping around for CD players one place I went to had a pair of MA towers that cost $1500, can't remember if that was the Silver or Gold series. Anyways, all I know is that the Marantz 4300 CDP I heard in that shop, running off a NAD c372, didn't impress that much compared to my Sony ES player that I had brought in to AB against. However a few weeks later I bought the same CDP online refurbed and when I played it at home on my NAD-driven Ascend 340s, it sounded astonishingly better, blew away the Sony. The only possible explanation I could see was the different speakers (my room has horrible accoustics so I don't think the room could've worked in my favor). The Ascends, when paired with a sub, have been favorably compared to the Paradigm Studio 20s and 40s by some people I've come across on other forums. They are a marvelous bang for the buck, what I'd do is order one pair of the 170s and take them into your local shop to AB against the more expensive speakers in the same size category with a sub...you may come away very surprised. And if not, return shipping on the 170s should run you maybe $15 which is nothing for a 30 day home audition. My impression of Onix speakers is that at least half of your money is going into the cabinet. With the Ascends you don't get a gorgeous cabinet because all your money is going to the drivers and crossovers, which is where IMO it belongs. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1131 Registered: Jun-05 | Wait Eddie Onix has top class drivers also they dont just have a pretty finish,they are very good performers to for the money they are you can want and then some. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 282 Registered: Feb-05 | With the onix you get a much better tweeter (Vifa XT ring radiator) than what Ascend gives you IMHO. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1132 Registered: Jun-05 | Yes yes Gavin one of the smoothest dome tweeters on the market. |
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justwondering Unregistered guest | I heard the MA Silver S2's compared to the Paradigm Studio 20's and slightly prefered the MA's and I have seen great deals on used MA GR10 and the Onix Ref1 |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2789 Registered: Mar-05 | TW & Gavin, you guys might be right, I used the word "impression" because I have not personally heard the Onix speakers myself but have only read about them on various forums. I do remember one thread where a bunch of Internet-direct speakers were compared side by side in the same room: Ascend, Axiom, Onix, and Aperion. If I remember correctly with a sub the Ascends edged out the Onix which edged out the Axioms which left the Aperions a distant last. Of course this was a highly unscientific and subjective sampling of one group of individuals' listening preferences. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 727 Registered: Dec-03 | Except for full range tower active-crossovered dipole speakers (such as Linkwitz Orions) I have generally preferred quality bookshelf models. Main reason for this is that the woofer in a tower speaker is almost never located where it sounds best. It is invariably a significant compromise in full-range sound. Afterall, why do people move around subwoofers in their media rooms and calibrate them separately? To get the best bass response in their room. Now there are tower speakers with attached powered subwoofers, but these are still a compromise--as you can't move the subwoofer. But it is a better compromise. Now if one could get a single driver speaker that covers all frequencies, that would make a tower very attractive, except for your spouse:-). In the age of more sophisticated EQ acoustic electronics, maybe we can all get a black boxes that will balance the bass, midrange, tweeter, and frequency responses everywhere in the room and make everyone acoustically happy. I have a dream..... |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 621 Registered: Dec-03 | "Now if one could get a single driver speaker that covers all frequencies, that would make a tower very attractive, except for your spouse:-)." Like this? http://www.us.alegriaaudio.com/Aria.htm |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1191 Registered: Jun-05 | Eddie You may be talking about the Rocket series I doubt the Ascends would be as good as the refference series like the Refference 1 they are extremely impressive. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6507 Registered: May-04 | Yeah, like this: http://www.us.alegriaaudio.com/Aria.htm Yeah, that's the ticket!!! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1196 Registered: Jun-05 | Im just not to fond of bi-polar speakers they dont have the pin point imaging I like,im more interrested in the Emma. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 333 Registered: Feb-05 | I was thinking of the reference series as well. Although, the rocket series has been updated with an improved crossover for increased HF resolution and clarity. The updated rockets are the MKII series |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1201 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah there are a couple good reviews in the last few months on the Rocket 550 MK 2 in Possitive Feedback and Hi FI News,both very good reviews. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 622 Registered: Dec-03 | "they dont have the pin point imaging" To state the obvious, there isn't one perfect speaker design. There are always trade-offs, however, I would like to point out that I'm not aware of a bipole design like mine on the market. I know there are similar ones but I don't know of one where the rear driver rolls off naturally before the forward driver while also being in a very narrow cabinet, amongst other things. I find the imaging quite good and my Aria customers have not mentioned it missing anything. There is a distinct difference in the expectations of a single driver fan and the more typical multi-way design customer. The people that purchase Aria are single driver fans one of which owned what are considered extremely good single driver transmission line speakers costing considerably more than Aria and yet he sold them off so he could buy Aria. It's hard to get better imaging than a high quality single driver. The Aria creates a large soundstage and when listening to a full orchestra I have no problem locating the soloists, the strings, the horns, etc.. I'm not arguing with you TW, and in most cases I would agree with you. I just felt compelled to defend my design. I also agree, based on your postings and our discussions that Emma is probably more your cup of tea. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1209 Registered: Jun-05 | Maybe yours could be the exception,going full range would seem to help more,instead of having 2 tweater throwing all that high freguencey energy around like Def Tech or Mirage,hey you know how I am Tim your gonna have to show me,hey a addition might change my mind.Dont take it the wrong way Tim its not a shot at your design,its just my experiance with the technology,although your design is different from the bipolar norm. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6517 Registered: May-04 | Not trying to take this thread too far off topic, but there is a distinct difference in the desires of various listeners. Big news there; huh? Those who wish for "pin point imaging" to accomodate close mic'd, multi-mic'd recordings where no instrument or vocalist is more than two inches from the recording capsule may think pin point imaging to be a good thing. Certainly reading some reviews in the audiophile press, you might expect the perfect system should allow you to cut out the images with a pair of scissors and prop them up in front of you on the soundstage. However, for anyone who listens to recordings from what might be described as a "more natural" perspective, that sort of cardboard cut out presentation can be substantially lacking in its ability to suggest a believable symphony stage or an intimate jazz club atmosphere from the perspective of an audience member. Even if we accept the idea monopoles and dipoles will offer a different "staging", which is a little too broad of a concept for me, we all have to make our decisions based on our reference to live music. (Hopefully we all listen to live music on ocassion.) Additionally, I have found it rare for anyone to listen exclusively to one type of music or only one type of recording style. Despite protestations to the contrary suggesting there is only one way to build a loudspeaker or to only purchase the "best" recordings, any one of us who goes through their music library should find some diversity in the style of presentation each recording offers. It is only my opinion since we all get to choose what we own, but, in my experience, any component which veers toward one extreme or the other will generally not satisfy for long when given critical listening. If it does, quite often you'll find the listener is letting the system dictate the music they buy. This becomes the tale of the "audiophile" who only buys "audiophile recordings" that only get played on tracks 3, 7 and 8 because those are the cuts which make the system sound best. All this follows my personal dislike for the constant pursuit of ever more "detail retrieval". Imaging and detail all too often become the game itself. Just as "warm" and "silky" can be overdone in a hobby with a quite indistinct and amorphous terminology, listening for any quality the system produces, other than the ability to simply get out of the way, is all too often a pathway to being disappointed all too often. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1210 Registered: Jun-05 | Wait a minute Jan I never even thought there is only one way to build a speaker,that would make me like Paul Bayless no way Wow!thats scary.As a youg child My dad had the Ohm Walsh 2s,I was 7 years old when he got them.Monopolar designs have came a long way in soundstage depth and width,and having decent sweetspots,something Bipolar and Dipolar designs have inherrated naturally and vice versa those designs have developed better imaging as of late,but it is what it is a good monopolar design is always gonna have better imaging and good bipolar and dipolars are always going to have a larger more spacious soundstage at least in my experiance. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6520 Registered: May-04 | No, TW, I didn't suggest you were of the same cloth as Mr. Bayless. (And, I am shocked, simply shocked that his name would come to mind!) And, as I said, we each get to pick what we want to own. My impressions in this case, are strictly my own. However, let me go at this in this fashion. I find it difficult to make sweeping generalizations regarding how a particular design will affect a particular aspect of a speakers reproduction quality. (With few exceptions, that is. I certainly remember the impressions I had the first time I heard the omnidirectional Ohm F's were not the same as when I first heard the anydirectional Bose 901's.) But as an example of a dipolar design which has stellar imaging, I can think of no speaker that does the job more satisfactorily than a pair of Quad electrostats when properly set up. Dipole vs. bipole? We're talking figure of eights there. On the other hand, I will put most small minimonitor monopoles against any large monopole design and ask what are the differences you hear in imaging and soundstaging. My comments were more to the point of don't judge a book by its cover and don't pursue one advantage to the exclusion of others. |