Your Next Set-up?
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1129 Registered: May-05 | What would it be? If money were no issue. Not necessarily your dream set-up (although it certainly could be). Just what you would be curious to try in your next system if you were completely able? Again, money is granted. |
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Gold Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 1945 Registered: Aug-05 | i would definitely like to hear why the Rainbow Reference's were a $10K pair. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4868 Registered: May-04 | I'd like to try either the References or the Genesis Audio Absolutes (<-Scanspeak Revelator drivers). As far as DIY, I'd like to try SEAS Lotus 7", 4", and a LCY Ribbon tweeter. |
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New member Username: OlogyaudioColumbus, Oh USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Oct-05 | Well I have a dealer's account setup with madisound if you want to make use of it... Rainbow Ref ~== Seas Excel ;) |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1130 Registered: May-05 | "I'd like to try either the References or the Genesis Audio Absolutes (<-Scanspeak Revelator drivers)." interesting that that's the case. I have noticed great similarities between the F#1's and the Scanspeaks, but I read that they have different cones, magnets, vc, ..etc. I have read only two perspectives on the genesis, but neither have been in depth. only that they are on par with rainbows, Seas and the ilk. |
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Silver Member Username: Kd7nfrMontpelier, ID United States Post Number: 957 Registered: Apr-05 | Alpine F1 Status deck, those Rainbow Reference components, and two of the new RE XXX's, or two of the Eclipse Ti Pro's (probably the later). Haven't decided on the amp(s) yet... |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4871 Registered: May-04 | Alpine screwed the Scanspeaks up, basically, just like nearly every other speaker they produce. Lots of people think they sound like crap compared to the Revelators. The waterproofing that Genesis uses only adds 1g of moving mass and sound very similar. I'd probably say the SEAS Excels are superior to the Rainbows due to the magnesium cones. Rainbows use air dried paper. Subjective of course, but listening to Excels is like taking earmuffs off your head. |
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New member Username: OlogyaudioColumbus, Oh USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Oct-05 | I'm a huge fan of the dayton RS drivers ;) if you haven't noticed yet... superior performance for the money... I'm shocked at how nice the seas MP14rcy/p is too... not as detailed but very smooth and shocking midbass for a pure midrange -- pretty sensitive and takes power well... Quite possibly my favorite 5" midrange irrespective of price |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1136 Registered: May-05 | "listening to Excels is like taking earmuffs off your head." i finally got the analogy. those must be some drivers. i'm sold off the analogy alone. particularly if the likes of Iridiums are considered the experience with earmuffs. "i would definitely like to hear why the Rainbow Reference's were a $10K pair." at 10k i can't help but think they might be the dissapointment I understand the 3-4k Focal Be's to be. i too wondered how much better a driver must sound than other "top shelf" components to be that cost. |
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Gold Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 1969 Registered: Aug-05 | i would settle for some Iridium 6.2's any day of the week though. lol |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4873 Registered: May-04 | "i finally got the analogy. those must be some drivers. i'm sold off the analogy alone. particularly if the likes of Iridiums are considered the experience with earmuffs. " Neutral, neutral, neutral. Near the transparency of an electrostatic panel, to give you an idea. The clarity is unmatched by any cone driver I've even heard. In comparison to your DLS set, for example, the clarity would be better and there would be less coloration, but they are more sterile sounding. Some like that, some don't. Same drawback as you get with any neutral speaker, poor recordings sound poorer because you hear the flaws. DLS sets will have more attack in the midbass region, SEAS Lotus/Excel drivers are more dry, similar to Dynaudio in the fact that they are musical, but not a lot of impact. Metal dome tweeter is shockingly smooth. "at 10k i can't help but think they might be the dissapointment I understand the 3-4k Focal Be's to be. i too wondered how much better a driver must sound than other "top shelf" components to be that cost." Remember that 17/20 overall that CA&E ranked the $750 SEAS Lotus comps at? The Utopia Bes didn't beat them. The Beryllium tweet is the first *good* tweeter Focal has, but it's still a Focal inverted dome tweeter. Meaning poor power handling, hates a low crossover point and is harsh at lower treble, isn't dynamic unless on axis, poor dispersion, not natural sounding, PITA to install. REALLY need a Zobel network to smooth the response of the tweeter, rising inductance makes it brighter as frequency climbs. Basically, add to the drawbacks of a ribbon and take away most of the benefits, and that's where the Focal domes sit. But I would put Rainbow References above Focal Bes. I'd put Rainbow Platinums above them, too. |
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Silver Member Username: Lil_jonPost Number: 145 Registered: Jul-05 | wassup ology its semi-auto welcom to the board dont you use seas lotus tweeter? I rember a guy bit my head of for even thinking rainbow used the same tweeter jonathan is the SEAS Excels tweeter the best tweet you heard? and what do you think about the dayton driver midbass clarity? i will get some of those mostlikely far as my second set up I probly go all eclipse with there new 15 pro subwoofer so im hoping the coponets are all of that! |
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New member Username: OlogyaudioColumbus, Oh USA Post Number: 6 Registered: Oct-05 | the daytons are sick... Awesome clarity and low distortion... the 7" has a good deal of excursion. If you feel like making a ported kick big enough you almost wouldn't need a subwoofer... About on par with scans in the mid/lowbass department but clean and detailed as it gets up to about 1.8khz... over that they go down hill fast due to increases in linear distortion... So the real limit to using these in a component set is the tweeter... The dayton RS is nice -- so is the TBFC/TDFC at a lower price... the power response with a high order -- lower frequency xover though is relatively even. Seas Excel drivers are almost not worth the extra money... I want to hear the new nextel excels though. Seas is currently retooling their entire automotive line... should be interesting. As for the daytons -- they are kinda tricky if ran active -- If you have to run them active... 4th order ... highpass on the mids at about 1.3-1.5khz -- lowpass on the tweeter at about 2-2.2khz -- depending on the Q of the filter and use a nice 31 band EQ to eliminate the notch between the xover points... That has yielded the best results... better yet use 31 bands of eq per driver ;) but that's kinda excessive and I wouldn't expect that anyone would do that... On the other hand you could use the passive xover (I make one -- or you could build it yourself as a kit to have a good time -- possibly learn something -- and save a few bucks) -- less expensive but less tweakable and a proper active setup is better than a passive (only if you set it up properly which kinda is a trick) |
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Silver Member Username: Lil_jonPost Number: 147 Registered: Jul-05 | Ill give you a call tomorrow a guy told me yesterday a speaker you made blew out the boston z's very impressive for a $350 driver o and glad to see you on the board once again Mayb you and jonathan can hook up 1 day so yall can create the perfect coponet :-) |
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New member Username: OlogyaudioColumbus, Oh USA Post Number: 7 Registered: Oct-05 | Well I'm going to be ordering up some custom drivers... I could always use some good input lol.. can never have enough people thinking on the subject if you ask me... The first order of buisness though is to order up batches of PCBS and tons of caps/coils to get the cost per unit down enough to offset the cost of the PCBs... wiring stuff point to point and cutting up wood boards sucks for my fingers/hands... not to mention they look ugly compared to nice red or black PCBs |
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Bronze Member Username: MixmastaspigOknagan, B.C Canada Post Number: 85 Registered: Sep-05 | A set of Brax Matrix 6.1 3-way set! |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4874 Registered: May-04 | "I rember a guy bit my head of for even thinking rainbow used the same tweeter jonathan is the SEAS Excels tweeter the best tweet you heard?" They aren't the same tweeter. From what I understand of it, Rainbow is licensing the SEAS Excel motor technology, and that's about it. They are SEAS Excel drivers in that sense. If I remember correctly the drivers are built in Rainbows build house. As far as the Excel tweeter, it isn't the best tweeter I've heard, actually I feel their H1212 tweeter from their basic line is a better tweeter overall. But the Excel tweeter gets low enough to mate with their magnesium drivers, which few tweeters can do. My favorite tweeter is the Dynaudio Esotar, and I'd guess their Esotar^2, but I haven't heard it yet to compare it with the original. "SEAS is currently retooling their entire automotive line...should be interesting" You have the status on that? I haven't heard in a while and don't know how long it may be before the release of new drivers. I may just wait to snatch up a pair of Lotus drivers |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1144 Registered: May-05 | "SEAS is currently retooling their entire automotive line...should be interesting" Not certain as to whether this is new, but it states "New 2005" http://www.seas.no/Excel%20line%20up.htm "actually I feel their H1212 tweeter from their basic line is a better tweeter overall. But the Excel tweeter gets low enough to mate with their magnesium drivers, which few tweeters can do." The h1212 reads that they reach as low as 1.5-2khz. http://www.seas.no/Basic_line%20line%20up.htm Didn't notice any of the highs in the Excel line that played lower than 2khz like the Esotar (unless the h1212 stats are just theoretical or i'm misreading this). |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4877 Registered: May-04 | Yeah, the H1212 does as well, I was just referring to the Excel in the sense that it is a large format tweeter. Top octave lacks a little. Most of the home audio population will prefer a silk tweeter, but the H1212 is very smooth. SEAS stats are VERY accurate, they'll give you specs down to every flaw. Their specs are very reliable, the problem is that the rest of the industry doesn't go to their extent and it doesn't make them look very good head to head with another manufacturer. Note that I'm not referring to Dynaudio, their specs are very accurate as well. |
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New member Username: OlogyaudioColumbus, Oh USA Post Number: 9 Registered: Oct-05 | the h1212 starts to droop under 2khz -- not to mention those poor tweets don't like high SPLs under about 1.5k so you should rly cross a bit higher... I find they sound best if you can highpass at about 2.2khz in conjunction with seas mp14rcy/p ;) -- I have a slight preference for atleast the old millennium tweeter... Haven't had a chance to play with the new ones yet... the excels have 1mm p-p vs .5mm p-p for the h1212... that makes quite a diff down low I'll ask if theres any news but I doubt it... I can get lotus drivers for kinda cheap figuring that I have reseller's status with them and they are only a few left in stock that they want to get rid of... -- PS If anyone wants discounts on madisound items just give me a holler |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4881 Registered: May-04 | I emailed Leon at mobilesq, he said no changes this year, and he wasn't aware of any changes, but if there are they will be late next year at the earliest. If I had to guess, I'd say SEAS is giving the set a little heartier tweeter and possibly changing the parameters of the woofer to work better IB. I hope not, though, I like a driver that can achieve a .707 Qtc in a .3 cu ft enclosure There aren't a ton of tweeters that like 1.5khz . Generally I prefer to let a 4 or 5" mid take over and handle up to at least 2.5-3khz, but you have to make exceptions sometimes. The Hiquphon tweets will surprise you, 3/4" dome, but they have a .9mm one way linear excursion. Pretty authoritative down to around 2.5khz or so, can go a bit lower, but it isn't as full sounding as a larger dome would be. |
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Silver Member Username: Kd7nfrMontpelier, ID United States Post Number: 974 Registered: Apr-05 | *humps wall* |
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Gold Member Username: Basshead86Ocala, FL USA Post Number: 2040 Registered: Aug-05 | ROFL, good ol' Jake.  |
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Gold Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 1145 Registered: May-05 | "Generally I prefer to let a 4 or 5" mid take over and handle up to at least 2.5-3khz" why not mix/match? that's where i have my 3", and i'm sure they would do the excels justice. then you could even add the esotar and have a 1/million setup. I cross each driver actively and eq the high and 3" together (eq each 6.5 seperately), so it seems plausible. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4885 Registered: May-04 | For clarity, I prefer a cone mid over a dome, but I'm using domes right now for their imaging capability. But even so, any of the soft domes wouldn't mate well with the Excel/Lotus drivers, warm vs. sterile and I'd rather it be a paper/poly cone midbass and a metal midrange than a metal midbass and a dome midrange. Major tonality difference. It's one way or the other in this particular case, with a little personal taste sprinkled in ;). For my upcoming project, 2 ways are enough of a squeeze as it is, though (86 Ranger). |
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Silver Member Username: Bobo123Post Number: 119 Registered: Jan-05 | What are the dayton "TBFC/TDFC"? I found the RS. I am looking on parts express. |
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Silver Member Username: Lil_jonPost Number: 149 Registered: Jul-05 | so jonathan what you think of teh new eclipse coponets i anm tryng to go all eclipse with me second setup |
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New member Username: OlogyaudioColumbus, Oh USA Post Number: 10 Registered: Oct-05 | Thats the Seas TBFC -- from madisound ;) -- Hey Jonathan what about a hard dome midrange ... 3" -- 1mm of xmax or the like -- high efficency (atleast 93dB/2.83V/m) -- ultra premium quality -- what would you think about that one... ? |
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