Glass/Jonathan.. Best Place to Mount 8"s
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 933 Registered: May-05 | so i recently decided to take glass' advise and keep it simple. i'm gonna push both my subs off one 1600 @2ohm mono w/900watts/sub. this leaves me one completely unatatched 1600. i was considering knabbing some crystal cmp 8" and running each at 400 watts. being that i'm building new pods and such for the expo, what would be the best application of the extra amp? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10194 Registered: Dec-03 | want the 8s for midbass? remember 8" midbass are different from 8" subs |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 936 Registered: May-05 | yeah. i was wondering if maybe i should let the 12"s play 60 down and maybe the 8"s play 60-100, and the 6.5s 100-315. i basically have an extra 400-1600 watts i don't know what to do with. i'm redoing all the pods anyway, so i was taking this time to ponder what (if anything) i could use the amp for. i was kind of taken out by this aperiodic door panel (audionutz. thanks for the site). and i don't know of any midbass' that will handle a cool 400watts rms (exist?). so that's how subs came into play.  although his window is practically non-functional (a 12" in a door), i was hoping with your install expertise, you could advise something for the extra amp. like maybe the 6 and the 8 in the door? i don't know, just thinking "different" but still "useful and practical." If such a thing might exist in this situation. |
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Silver Member Username: Lil_jonPost Number: 113 Registered: Jul-05 | the midbass would suck in a 8 sub no matter how you wire it right? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4737 Registered: May-04 | Most 8" subs will cover 60-100hz no problem. |
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Silver Member Username: Lil_jonPost Number: 115 Registered: Jul-05 | hmmm your giving me ideas Jon |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 937 Registered: May-05 | "..and maybe the 8"s play 60-100.." *correction- actually the 8"s would be more like 35-100hz to add to and pull the bass up front. but the cmp is still capable. |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 345 Registered: Apr-05 | If you plan on using an 8" as a mid-bass driver; that would mean you would run it in the mid-bass frequency range (150-500 Hz). 60-100 Hz is woofer range. That kik pod doesnt have enough volume for an 8" to reproduce 60-100 Hz. If you are looking for powerfull speakers, then look into stage monitors. Thats where you will find speakers that can handle a lot of watts. Here are a few name brands; Peavey, Community, Tannoy, Mackie, KRK, Marshall, Yamaha, Nexo Oh yeah, remember these things are LOUD. They are SPL drivers. (95-100 dB) |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 938 Registered: May-05 | "If you plan on using an 8" as a mid-bass driver; that would mean you would run it in the mid-bass frequency range (150-500 Hz). 60-100 Hz is woofer range. That kik pod doesnt have enough volume for an 8" to reproduce 60-100 Hz." i already own a set of iridiums. my 3" run 315hz and meet my highs. my 6.5 mid-bass' meet the 3"s at 315 and are capable of reaching as low as around 40hz, but not as capable as an 8" sub. all the mid-bass/range frequencies are covered. i'm just looking for a more prominent front stage presence as it pertains to bass. the cmp require .7-1cu ft. and again, that's a 12" in the door of the aperiodic (below and above). not trying to use kicks for anything but the 3" and perhaps 6.5  |
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Silver Member Username: Lil_jonPost Number: 116 Registered: Jul-05 | were did you get a door panel with a whole that big to fit that speaker? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10226 Registered: Dec-03 | lil jon, that's a hand laid fiberglass panel. it's not store bought. I'd use an 8" midbass driver and set the subs at 50Hz. run the 8" from 50-150 or 200.. then run mids from there up to the tweeters. see this is why I suggest picking speakers before amplifiers.. that way you get the sound you want from the speakers and worry about matching the right power to them later which is easy with the thousands of amplifiers made today. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdisantoPost Number: 25 Registered: Sep-05 | Well, If the 8" midbass driver doesnt work out for you I could use that extra power you cant find a use for, LOL. Hey glass, How hard is it to make a custom door panel like that out of fiberglass, or even one like that door panel you had in the fiesta? |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 940 Registered: May-05 | "see this is why I suggest picking speakers before amplifiers.. that way you get the sound you want from the speakers and worry about matching the right power to them later which is easy with the thousands of amplifiers made today." of course i agree, rule of thumb. i did pick the subs ahead of time. they were two 4ohm vgw 12"s. with one 1600.2 i got 800watts for each 600rms sub. perfectly planned system, power wise. however, when i purchased my brahmas, they were only available in 2ohms. 400 watts/sub just wouldn't cut it. so i got a second amp to run 1600w into each. too much. then i found out collyn eastham was running his amps at 2ohm bridged without a hitch (great power supply). so here i am with an extra amp already worked into the custum install and nothing to do with it except maintain it for warranty purposes. which is fine in case the bridge doesn't hold @2ohms. but like i said, a different but practical approach would be great. as for the midbass', i already have them receiving a cool 140 watts each. that's covered with my 4channel. i'm still stuck with a cleanup hitter stranded on the bench. so 2 8" subs for front presence would do no good? |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10255 Registered: Dec-03 | two 8" subs in front would be great for SQ.. especially if those were the only subs used. all front stage, and flat response. I did the festiva panels on an industrial sewing machine at a conversion van shop near our audio store at the time. reupholstered the original cardboard door panels. the fiberglass panels take considerable work to shape the panel then glass it then sand it all down and make it look smooth. you can spend a day or two on a panel easily if you want to have a stock appearance. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 972 Registered: May-05 | i've narrowed it down to underneath the dash, inbetween the kick panels. i'm pretty sure that's just empty space underneath the center console (under the head unit, not between the seats). is this an entirely inovative idea, or is there a reason it's not such the traditional space to place a sub enclosure? particularly one as small as the .35 to which jonathan just made reference (for w3)? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4770 Registered: May-04 | Console enclosures are pretty common. The reason you don't see it as much is just because of the work required. JL stealthboxes do the same for subs in trucks and such. Works well. Another option is to step your midbass drivers up, see if someone like Scott Buwalda can still get you the prototype DLS 8" mids (the paper cone 8s were heavy and sloppy above 100hz or so, didn't mate well with the mid) |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4771 Registered: May-04 | Oh yeah, a lot of competitors make an enclosure out of sheet metal and weld it to the floor of the vehicle, then flush mount subs/mids in there to save footspace and get some upfront bass. Some will just make one out of sheet to hold a wood box. All dampen them excessively. It's extensive work, but it beats the crap out of trying to beat door rattles or get airspace from a kick panel. Gives you the option of exact airspace, possibly even room for a ported box up front, which could make upfront bass a big reality  . |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 974 Registered: May-05 | thanks. i recall seing that scott's car (the new 240) had floor mounted drivers. i'd imagine that would offer for an abundance of snow and timberland grit to enter the sub (chicago). slick though. so, while i have seen console enclosures between the seats, i've not seen one by the feet, opposite the kick panels (again, under the head unit. opposite the sub in scotts first 240). i sure could use any pics if you have them. i was thinking of building two boxes, one for each sub on each side of the "inner kick," if you will. unless, of course, i only have space for one. as for the p-type 8" iridiums, i'll definately give him a buzz about them. i really want to have it done right this one time, so i won't touch it again. just spend time tuning. leave any extra installs for future cars that i can't afford yet. i figure the time will give me an opportunity to practice. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4773 Registered: May-04 | "so, while i have seen console enclosures between the seats, i've not seen one by the feet, opposite the kick panels (again, under the head unit. opposite the sub in scotts first 240)." OH, I thought you were talking about a downfire or forward firing config. That wouldn't work so well. I doubt you'd get enough airspace without the footwells I mentioned. Don't really have any pics of them, but it's a simple square box made of sheet metal welded together, then a hole is cut into the floor panel of the car, and that box is welded to the floor panel. The mounting ring for the sub connected to the floor panel, and of course the entire box is heavily sound deadened. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4774 Registered: May-04 | If you had the sub firing straight forward, it wouldn't be bad. If you had two subs, but firing opposite the kicks (toward the doors), it wouldn't be quite as good. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 977 Registered: May-05 | "If you had two subs, but firing opposite the kicks (toward the doors), it wouldn't be quite as good." especially since i'm mounting my 3"s right there in the kicks. cancellation would probably be unavoidable. ok. so perhaps i'll work on just one firing forward or upward. original, right? just a matter of practicality at this point. again, it's a result of my needing a use for my extra 1600.2. figure if i can run a 4ohm 8" at 4ohm on one channel, it would get about 200 watts. Since i probably won't have sufficient space for two of the 8's (as you suggested), i'll likely give in and use the second channel to run a pair of 4ohm rear-fill midbasses at 8ohms with about 200 watts mono (100 watts/driver). don't mean to work in the opposite direction (going with rear fill), but it is an SUV and it's a fair amount of room between me and the rear. *blatant justifying sensical? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4776 Registered: May-04 | Unless you've got a really good reason to run rear fill (like nagging passengers that are willing to pay for them), I wouldn't worry about it. I've seen a forward firing sub once or twice online, but it isn't as common. You'll definately have something that is different from everyone else's. I prefer a downfire just for the stealthiness and the potential gain of it. You tried those 3s in the kick panel area yet? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3483 Registered: Jun-04 | I dont know if this is an option youve considered mikechec9 but how about the glove box this is an area im considering for my 6.5s you could make it custom and stealth and front but fitting two 8's would be tough (you could remove the factory glove box altogether for more room like im considering) |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3484 Registered: Jun-04 | i meant to say stealth and front firing |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3488 Registered: Jun-04 | you could also do the subs downfiring in the glove box location as well |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3489 Registered: Jun-04 | heres another location also that you could change to your liking appearance wise  heres the site http://www.thetechzone.com/articles/soundoff/show_car/page2.shtml |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 981 Registered: May-05 | "You tried those 3s in the kick panel area yet?" Not yet. I looked, and the area is very similar to scotts altima. where i was going to fabricate kicks, it looks like i just need to form a baffle behind the plastic piece, sand it, and maybe use filler to make the 3" fit flush, pretty much just like scott did. it looks like this way would be a lot less work involved, and the 3" from what i understand, work nicely off axis. but i'll definately keep you posted. any input along those lines, or others, would be great. as usual. "you could remove the factory glove box altogether for more room like im considering." that sounds like a winner sean. the only problem is i think i would likely run into cancellation issues, as I would need to have the 8" firing downward accross the path of the 3" in the passenger kick. but if i could angle it slightly upward more toward the front of the bottom section of the passenger seat, it could definately be doable. original thought. i like it a lot (if it could work). seems like you would have even more dificulty with imaging being that your's are mid-ranges. it might be nearly impossible to "hide" the source & produce a proper stage w/the 6's right there in your face aiming at you/passenger. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3490 Registered: Jun-04 | "seems like you would have even more dificulty with imaging being that your's are mid-ranges. it might be nearly impossible to "hide" the source & produce a proper stage w/the 6's right there in your face aiming at you/passenger." They arent midranges they are subwoofers believe it or not and they get extremely loud in my abc box but dont sound like I want them too sq wise heres a link to the specs (with correction at the 43 hz I hit loudest at with 280 rms total on two 6.5s I hit 129 to 130 db) http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-832 |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3491 Registered: Jun-04 | in my abc box I tuned the first chamber to 32 hz and the second to 45 hz and it played 32 hz just fine not bad considering the 6.5's have a 35 hz fs |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3492 Registered: Jun-04 | i just reread your post and I see what you meant mikechec9. Your right no hiding the source with my idea of front firing. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3494 Registered: Jun-04 | Im also doing these 6.5's as my only source for low end. I wanna stretch the limits of frequency bandwidth as much as possible with as little speakers as possible. (efficiency of speaker use, minor space usage, decent sound, and imagination being the focus of my install) |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 985 Registered: May-05 | i can really dig the imagination. like i said i'm pondering the possibilities of such an install. very original. and i've seen a s2000 with only 4or 5 5.25 focal "subs" doing the job. also, the guy who built/sold me my HO alt ran numerous 5.25 in spl comp and hit some incredible numbers. if you do it, post the install. if i decide not to run with the inner-kick install, i'll likely take you up on that advise. after all, in addition to my personal obsessive search for sonic perfection, i'm trophy huntin this year. straight up. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 3495 Registered: Jun-04 | Koodos man get those trophies. As far as the 5.25's hittin good numbers I knew it could be done. Im glad I could help ya out with your install ideas. Your hard work and research will be sure to pay off. Keep us updated on your progress and results. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 993 Registered: May-05 | ok. so i had delusions of grandeur. there is absolutely next to no space down there. it would take a whole lot of work if it would be possible even then. i decided to go with the center console after all. hopefully, i can fit two 8" in here. not real good with calculating volume (without foam beads), but it should at least do well with one 8". i'll just remove the yellow plastic, mat the inside, drop/bolt in a box. and it will be stealth.  |
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Bronze Member Username: JohntheguyPost Number: 11 Registered: Aug-05 | I've never done it before but you should probably fiberglass. It would look sick. In this month's car audio and electronics theres a step by step of putting a sub in the counsel just like where your putting it. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 998 Registered: May-05 | look forward to knabbing that asap. the top of the console that i removed for the pic is fiberglassed the same as my speaker pods. i'm actually going to toss it though, as i'm going for more of a stock install (make it seem like its the 6.5's making all that fuss when i turn my 12"s off). i look forward to hittin up towers records though. thanks for the heads up. |
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