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Bronze Member Username: TdisantoPost Number: 31 Registered: Sep-05 | You guys know where i can read up on the XBL^2 motor topology. Id like to learn about it. Thanks Also, Who came out with that first? Ive seen it on RE, Adire, and Image Dynamics sites all with a ™. How can they all have a patent and trade mark on the same technology, or are the three slightly different? Confusing- Thanks |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10305 Registered: Dec-03 | Adire owns XBL^2 Jon has a link to a PDF all about the motor topology. I don't have the link handy. sorry. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 949 Registered: May-05 | http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/XBL2TechPaper.pdf http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/XBL2DetailsPaper.pdf dan wiggins of adire is the originator of xbl^2. RE (ID isn't xbl2) did pay adire for the liscense. but i believe like Ascendent Audio, they ducked out to go completely independent now. adire made a relatively big deal (in jist) about "just because others use the same technology doesn't make them equal to adire." that's when AA pulled out. kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one i think, but hey.. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4750 Registered: May-04 | XBL^2 is Adire Audios trademark. You can get XBL^2 details on their website, which is www.adireaudio.com it is under tech info section. RE, Ascendant Audio, and others using it pay royalties to Adire for using their topology. Image Dynamics doesn't use XBL^2, though, not sure where you got that from. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4752 Registered: May-04 | "adire made a relatively big deal (in jist) about "just because others use the same technology doesn't make them equal to adire." that's when AA pulled out. kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one i think, but hey.." Taken out of context, or just an easy pullout from paying the royalties. I'm sure Dans statement was spawned from the question of "why pay so much for a Brahma when an Avalanche is cheaper?". The subs are drastically different, he was simply stating that XBL^2 is just a topology, just like underhung, overhung, evenhung, and other designs are. You can make a great sub with XBL^2, you can screw them up too. Dan didn't even deal with Chad directly. Ascendant used cheaper parts to build their subs, hence the lower price, and that may have made them feel like a target in the statement, but it wasn't directed at anyone specifically. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdisantoPost Number: 33 Registered: Sep-05 | Thanks guys. I thought ID used them too just cause i was on all three sites today and I got mixed up. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 951 Registered: May-05 | "Ascendant used cheaper parts to build their subs, hence the lower price, and that may have made them feel like a target in the statement, but it wasn't directed at anyone specifically." If indeed they felt their revenue was threatened, i think it probably would have been more appropriate if it had been directed specifically at whomever it was intended. this would have prompted yet other upstarts who could afford the tech, to do so with confidence. i for one wouldn't pay for a company's help if they are going to turn around and imply i'm inferior, or at bare minimum, not of equal value just because i use their parts. as true as it is, i think maybe that should have been revealed in practice. that way companies would still feel more comfortable liscensing the product (again, those who could afford it). although i'm sure it was blown out of proportion to a degree, i think maybe stating that it IS a topology and that "xbl^2 offers the potential for a superior driver in the proper applications, as displayed by some of our current liscensies" would be a tad warmer than the former. but i'm no pr rep or anything. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 952 Registered: May-05 | and just as a caveat, i've got dan, chris and all of adire's back to the fullest. i've just noticed that.. well i havn't noticed anyone currently using the topology but them. and that has just been as of late and subsequent (perhaps consequent) to that comment. i'm sure though, that at a certain point all companies are going to want to cut the middle man and maximize profits. it's the foundation of capitalism. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4753 Registered: May-04 | It's just hit me as ironic that they emphasized that they have quickly found an "equivalent" design, and was already looking to build drivers at the time of the statement. Revamping a speaker/sub lineup doesn't happen overnight, it takes a lot of planning, and Chad's statement occured shortly after Dans posting. He also emphasized during the statement that it cost him nothing to use. I feel his intentions were to save money and compete in a different price bracket, or the same one with more revenue. Capitalism, like you said. You don't buy a truck just because of the motor. It may be a highly influential factor, but put a Cummins diesel in some 80s Toyota rattletrap and it wouldn't make a good truck. Put it on a heavy duty chassis, with a good suspension design, and solid body panels, it is only then that you have a truck. Same goes for XBL^2 subs. From Dan's perspective, he has to bring these things to light for his own good, he does have a reputation to keep as well as a business to maintain. It's the responsibility of the manufacturer to take it past the motor. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 953 Registered: May-05 | "You don't buy a truck just because of the motor. It may be a highly influential factor, but put a Cummins diesel in some 80s Toyota rattletrap and it wouldn't make a good truck." oh man, you just reminded me of a guy back in high school who would take the 5.0's out of mustangs and stick them into vw rabbits. i never did see the end result, but i would bet that he twisted quite a few frames because he kept about 3 rabbits in line in the driveway. i think that's a good point though regarding dan's responsibility to the company. the quality of the product has always seemed to superceed the profits for adire. that's why i like them. so yeah, even though they might lose takers on the topology, they still maintain respect. plus, that will make it a bit more "adire specific." and maybe be that great band that not everyone else listens to again. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4756 Registered: May-04 | We had guys putting 5.0s in Rangers, but those things will get on pretty good with a 5.0L. Better gas mileage than the V6, too. |
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Silver Member Username: PhuktupbassheadScottsdale, Arizona United State... Post Number: 275 Registered: May-05 | I talked to Chad from Ascendent Audio and he told me exactly what the "new" topology is going to be. BUT, he made me promise not to tell anyone. I swear to God. It's true. One thing I will say: New? More like FREE! Good for Ascendent Audio!!! That means cheaper prices for the consumer. Let's just wait and see if they all perform as well as the prototype. Chad sure did seem EXCITED, though. I wish him the best of luck. (although, he did break a promise to me... let's see if he comes through) |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3698 Registered: Aug-04 | I'm with Jon. I find it very strange that Ascendant just happened to have a new motor technology all lined up so quickly after they announced their termination of the XBL^2 products. Sometimes I wonder if Chad has either had, or been working on the new technology for quite some time, and only pruduced subs with XBL^2 to gain recognition. Think of how hard it would be to get started in the audio world. If your starting out with products using the same motor technology as Adire and Resonant, people are gonna see that and immediately be interested. Who knows though. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10338 Registered: Dec-03 | that or he just went to another mass production company and bought the subs and had them relabeled and assembled for AA.. just like 98% of the market does with speakers.. that'd explain the low cost, too. gain recognition using xbl2, then switch and sell a bunch of mass production same as everyone else speakers and clean house. |
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Silver Member Username: Tdeaton1021Near Tampa, Florida USA Post Number: 875 Registered: Sep-04 | so glasswolf you think the new AA products are going to be junk? |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4762 Registered: May-04 | "gain recognition using xbl2, then switch and sell a bunch of mass production same as everyone else speakers and clean house." Not a bad idea from a business sense. |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4763 Registered: May-04 | I'm just anxious to see what comes out of Hybrid Audio (Scott Buwalda and Dan Wiggins are working together for Scott's business purposes). Competition worthy components, the prototypes used have 3" midbass drivers that go down in the 120s. No clue about the larger midbass drivers, or the upcoming tweeter. I don't know if I'd want an XBL^2 tweeter, though, when I think of a tweeter with over 3mm one way excursion, pain comes to mind. |
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Platinum Member Username: GlasswolfWisteria, Lane USA Post Number: 10355 Registered: Dec-03 | no idea till I see the drivers. no point in assuming really. I was just speculating on what could happen.. it's one way to make some fairly fast money.. although in the long run it destroys any credibility you may have. |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3699 Registered: Aug-04 | My buddy was gonna order a Sound Splinter RLP tonight, but he's gonna hold off because the LMT's are gonna go public tomorrow. I've seen pics of them from the soundsplinter forum, massive subs, 38 mm xmax, TC Sounds LMT motor. I'd love to listen to one and compare it to something like the XXX. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Http://www.cardomain.c... Post Number: 976 Registered: May-05 | yup. and it's a beauty: http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4209 |