Eric,how many L.P,s have you got?If its 50-100,stay with the Goldring/Pro-ject,both these items get 5 stars in the audio mags, here in the U.K.If you have a fair collection or want to get "into" vinyl,I would suggest saving for the slightly more expensive Goldring Gr2,again highly rated,"What HIFI","HIFI Choice",ect....and the PhonoBox....good luck JMcM
The ProJect Phono Box is in my opinion the worst of the three. I hear the NAD and ProJect often and the ProJect is a little rough around the edges. The ProJect Debut table is a good little table and I would probably pair it with either the NAD or Bellari phono pre amp.
Heh heh, I love the ProJect PhonoBox. It may be a little rough around the edges but its delivery is more lively and has better dynamics than that smooth performing boring NAD...
As to turntables, I don't know the Music Hall, but I would take the Goldring over the ProJect deck. The Goldring is essentially a Rega P2 and these made great little decks.
Upgrade the cartridge sometime...
regards, Frank.
Tomi001
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Interestingly, I am also trying to make the same decision between the Pro Jec, NAD, Bellari VP129 models under $200 and the TCC 750 that sells for just $50.00 on ebay and amazon. Does anyone have any advice for us audiofiles on a budget (other than to get richer?. Which is the best bang for the buck? Feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Well, I got the Goldring GR-1.2 and the Bellari phono pre amp. I am very dissappointed with the Goldring quality. I thought the Brits would build a quality turntable. As the very simple MDF (wood) platter turns it makes a noise between a click and a thunk on every rotation. The counterweight is not precise, more of a "that's close enough" setting. While the anti-skate can be set to Zero, the magnet continues pulling the tonearm back toward the outside making the balancing of the tonearm very difficult and in no way accurate. The tonearm bearings are poor and do not allow free vertical movement adding to the difficult tracking weight adjustment. The RCA wires are very thin and the plugs aren't even gold plated. The dust cover's hinges are plastic and will certainly break at the hinge in no time. The platter doesn't sit flush to the spindle at least they could have tapered the inside of the wooden platter to match the spindle. Hard to belive this cost $300 with shipping. It's not worth it. I'm returning it and looking at the other two. The Bellari seems to be pretty good sound-wise. Only complaint is there is no on/off switch. You have to unplug it when not in-use.
Eric, neither of my project tables have been anything but wonderful. The Debut may not be as pretty as the Music Hall but it sure sounds better. Both of them give remarkable price/performance value. Send the Goldring back and try again.
Tom, all of those phono pre's are good values it just depends on what you want as to which you want. As you may have read Frank and I disagree about the ProJect and the NAD. Frank has more vinyl experience than I do so normally I would defer to his wisdom. In this case though I must say that teh person that I know who has the most experience and knowledge in audio owns an audio store and sells both (because he carries ProJect tables and NAD gear). He tries not to sell the ProJect because he believes it sounds so bad. I have listened to them both and don't find either of them objectionable. The NAD is smoother and more balanced, for some these characteristics equal boring for others it equals listenable. The ProJect is more dynamic and may let a little more of the music through and lets you you hear a bit more of what the fuss is all about with vinyl.
So to summarize the the ProJect is more dynamic but a bit rough around the edges which for some may equal harshness and the NAD is a bit smoother which for some may be a bit boring as it robs the music of a bit of the dynamics which make vinyl so special. Both equal good value but obviously at their price points aren't going to do everything well.
Thanks for the continued help. This is a lot tougher than I thought it would be.
I've been thinking about moving up a notch in TT choices.
I am now looking at the ProJect 1Xpression and the MusicHall MMF-5. Both are well reviewed.
Pro-Ject 1-Xpression: Cons: it has a Alum the "rings like a bell" according to a reviewer and the lowly Qyster cartridge with a spheical stylus. Pro: carbon fiber tonearm, 3 yr warranty, low voltage motor
MusicHall MMF-5 Cons: difficult tone arm adjustments which usually need correcting from factory, crummy manual, 1yr warranty. Pros: Goldring 1012 GX cartridge w/elliptical stylus($175.00), glass platter, record clamp, Dual plinth
Again, it's a tough choice.
I was thinking about adding a SpeedBox to help regulate the speed of the Xpression. Do you think it is really needed. Reviewers seem to think it makes the TT sound even better.
I bought the 1Xpression and switched the cartridge out for a Grado Blue ($89). The aluminum platter is less likely to make a mark on the sound than a glass platter. If you chose the 1Xpression, listen to it for awhile before buying the speed box. The Music hall is a fine table as well. Good luck.
I ended up ordering the Music Hall because the supplied cartridge is much better than the Oyster and Audio Advisors would return the Goldring GR-1.2, no questions asked, and not charge me another shipping cost. I hope I like it.
I'm very surprised about your experience with the Goldring, particularly the lack of free movement of the arm in the vertical plane. If the vertical movement was not free then you were absolutely right to send it back. That said, you made one or two comments which I feel I should address.
The counterweight can be set very precisely since the rotations are fractions of a gram. Provided you have a stylus force gauge the results are just as accurate as any other means, and the weight does not move with time.
The antiskate adjustment on the Goldring's arm is a spring, not a magnet. It's designed to have a little backpull built in on zero since most cartridges need a bit of this in the first place. Usually what happens on arms that are completely free is that the cartridge accelerates to the centre spindle. It's just another way of looking at the problem. Usually it's fairly easy to adjust antiskate so the cartridge remains steady in an unmodulated part of a record.
The medite platter sits snugly once fitted. There should be no movement once in place.
The phono plugs at the end of arm lead are nickel plated for sonic reasons, the company (Rega) that makes the arms feel that nickel is preferable over gold, and use nickel contacts in all their equipment for this reason.
In my experience the hinges on the dust cover break after at least 10 years' use.
The Bellari probably doesn't have a switch because they want you to leave it on all the time. This is quite common on better kit which sounds better when warmed through. Try leaving it on for a week or so to see if the sound rounds out and becomes a little more organic. It's a very low power device so it shouldn't cost much to run per week.
You guys are great for taking the time to help out newbies like me. You experience in these matters is priceless. I have been listening to the same album throughout my trials between my 25 yr old Hitachi/Shure Presence 7, the Stanton T.80, the Goldring GR-1.2 and finally the MusicHall MMF-5. The Stanton-stunk, sounded horrible, my old setup sounded much better. The Goldring was disappointing in quality-everything was very cheaply made. Not happy with the sound either. Even as I was opening the box of the MMF-5 and started removing parts, I realized that this one was built like an audiophile TT should be. The audio cables are very nice, the tone arm is similar in look to the Goldring but much better made and finish. Basically I should not even be comparing it to the Goldring because they are in (or should be) in completely different categories. The sound quality is equally impressive and I am hearing the nuances that could only be suggested by the other TT's. And the background is completely black/silent like a new canvas awaiting an accomplished painter to begin a masterpiece. I am so happy with the purchase of the Music Hall MMF-5. It is worth the cost ($550) if you are interested in really hearing the music. I got lucky and found a demo at Audio Advisors for $399, so I'm even happier! Thanks for all the help.
So you've got the MMF-5 paired with the Bellari preamp? I'm considering the same set, but am a bit new to the audiophile world. . . I see that the Goldring cartridge on the MMF outputs 6.5mV but the recommended range for the Bellari is 2.5-5.0mV. Does this affect the sound? Is it over-amplified? Do you ever detect any sibilance?
Read the new Stereophile Stu. They are quite impressed with it. BTW did you notice that the ProJect 1Xpression is now the Expression 2. I'm not sure how much if anything has changed.
I'll look for the review. I didn't notice the revision to our deck. I'll have to check that out. I saw that the Phono Box and a couple of other accessories have been updated to mkII versions. Have you seen or heard these? If the Tube Box was upgraded, and can be found at the standard discontinued price, that may be my next buy. My dealers usually let discontinued stuff go at about 10% or so above their cost (so they say) to their loyal customers who they feel can use the help, such as myself. I don't know why I didn't think of that before... I've got a few phone calls to make...
Art - The Sumiko website doesn't have any reference to the new Xpression. Through Google I found an English dealer who's got pics of the "Xpression mk2" -
The only differences I can see are removable interconnects (I was wondering when that would happen) and pointed feet.
The project-audio.com site has it listed as the Xpression II. Unfortunately, the Tube Box (along with the other "SE" accessories) hasn't been upgraded. My salesman hasn't heard anything about if they will, but thinks they probably will update the SE's sometime soon. If it happens and he's got one on hand, he'll put it aside and call me to see if I still want it.
Also, my salesman hadn't heard about the Xpression 2. Appearently, Sumiko (Pro-Ject's US distributer) isn't very good with communicating new information. All of the Xpression 2 stuff I've seen are UK sites (except the project-audio.com site). Maybe it's net available here yet.
