Help!! Another Newbie! w/ budget.

budgetsystem Unregistered guest	Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 20:39 GMT I was fortunate engough to stumble on this site while attempting to research for a new HT system. The more research I do, the more I realize I don't know crap! It seems like there's a lot of knowledge here and I'd appreciate any help! I'm on a limited budget... I'd like to keep the receiver and speakers under $1,000. I've got a 19'X12'9" space that opens into a 9'X9' dining area.. normal ceilings, (8'?). I'm looking for a system that will last me several years. I have no brand loyalties, but the shop with the best deals in the area sells Harman Kardon and Yamaha. I've been looking at the HK AVR-230($388). They sell Infinity speakers, Velodyne sub. Is this a good pairing? An earlier thread mentioned problems with HK.. I've also been looking at the Denon 1604 and 1804. I am open to other suggestions. Thanks, Mike
Anonymous	Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 23:27 GMT The HK 230 is a nice unit for the money. I'd stay away from Infinity speakers though. Check out the PSB Alpha series. Also, whatever speakers you get match them with the sub; i.e. don't get brand a speakers and a brand b sub.
budget minded Bronze Member Username: Cheapskate Post Number: 16 Registered: Mar-04	Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 06:39 GMT i don't see what's wrong with infinity speakers. they are made by harmon international (harmon kardon/jbl/infinity) and have always been decent values for the money. stereophile just gave one of their budget two ways a very favorable review as "the new budget kings". reviews should be taken with a grain of salt though. i bought a pair of mission m71s after reading several favorable reviews, but don't listen to them anymore. they do have some nice qualities, particularly treble speed, clarity and extension, but they have crappy (pin or spade only) posts, flimsy cabinets and are way too bright and fatiguing in the midrange. i like the sound of my "well recieved" (discontinued) nht super zeros alot better. if budget is a priority, then look into denon, onkyo or yamaha. they all are decent and less expensive than otherwise nice sounding harmon kardons. you'll get more bang for the buck with those brands. i'm VERY happy with my onkyo 55w/ch ht reciever. it has better treble and imaging in stereo than a 2 channel dedicated nad that i used before. as to budget speakers, i've read alot of favorable reviews for axioms and have been impressed with budget paradigms, boston acoustics, wharfdales and polks along with fair sound from jbls and infinitys. i've heard alot of favorable press about psb too. way back when they were still acoustic suspension oriented, infinitys were awesome. my friend's $100 4 1/2" woofered infinitys with FOAM (!?) tweeters played with a B&O turntable on a 45 w/ch denon reciever was my first taste of real hi-fi and definately is what steered me towards liking better imaging, tighter bass, lower cabinet resonance acoustic suspension speakers. i love my dirt cheap super zeros. if you're a newb, then just keep reading and learning. don't listen to any one person as you need to define your own priorities. i've read reviews in some audio mags where the reviewer is a fan of big ported speakers for their big sound and others that like small 2 ways. i like smaller speakers (especially acoustic suspension) because they don't suffer from annoying "one note bass" that big ported speakers make, but some people hate "small but clear" sound and need their walls to vibrate regardless of distortion levels. the FIRST thing you should really do is go into a REAL stereo dealer (not dept. store) and listen to various speaker sizes and types to find out what you like. maybe you like the faster sound of metal tweeters, or maybe you prefer the more laid back sound of soft domes. maybe you like the big sound of big speakers, or maybe you prefer the more detailed sound of small speakers. ANY single opinion you get on the subject is always going to be skewed towards THAT individual's preferences which might not be your own. before anything, start to educate your ears and find your tastes. HINT, when buying speakers, the FIRST test you should make is to rap on the cabinet to see how "dead" it is. if it sounds like you're knocking on an acoustic guitar, that's bad. if you hear just the slightest "tick" then you're off to a good start. the two biggest effects on speaker sound are cabinet resonances and the quality of the tweeter. once you learn more, you can easily buy a $200 pair of speakers that sonically stomps the crap out of your neighbors $500 grey carpeted 15" woofered "dj speakers" that might play loud, but sound terrible. p.s. if you were willing to stretch your budget just a little bit more, $550 a pair magnepan MMGs and an NAD (for it's 4 ohm capability) $600 reciever would give you KILLER sound that rivals MUCH more expensive systems. the first time i heard electrostatic speakers years ago, i didn't like them, but when i auditioned "maggies" recently (retrained my ears) i fell in love. they are so very fast and clear and barely sound like speakers at all. i've heard NOTHING that makes vocals sound as real as the $1200pr maggies i listened too. they all sound rougly the same too. the smaller cheaper ones just have less bass (but i bet they image better) p.p.s. speakers make a much bigger difference than electronics
Gregory Stern Silver Member Username: Gman Mt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 366 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 19:46 GMT eCost is selling the Onkyo SR601 at $305. Excellent receiver at the price. Finding very good speakers for a 5.1 system that don't cost more than $700 is tough. Maybe the PSB alpha's would be alright, with the best PSB self-powered subwoofer you can afford. I guess the same would go with the Infinities. If your budget was $1,000-$1250 on speakers your choices and quality would improve greatly. For one thing, it is difficult to buy a good self-powered subwoofer for under $300. Between the subwoofer and the receiver that eats up at least $600. Then you have to buy 2 fronts, a center, and two surrounds--and your room isn't small and it also opens into a dining room. If you could spend a little more you could get some Axiom or Ascend bookshelf speakers that are quite good. And then get the least expensive HSU subwoofer--the STF-1 for $315 delivered. The Maggies are planar (film) speakers--not electrostatic. Admittedly they both look similar, but the Maggies just have film that vibrates at different frequencies. They aren't as finicky as electrostatics--although they are certainly more finicky than regular "box" speakers, particularly in placement.
budgetsystem Unregistered guest	Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 23:34 GMT Thanks for all the input! It's greatly appreciated! Went shopping some more on my lunch break and looked at the Denon 1804 paired with Boston speakers.. it's a little more $$$, but it's only money right? I'm having trouble finding different brands of speakers in my local shops. seems like most stick with 2-3 manufacturers. I looked online and the nearest PSB dealer is 3 hours away! I'm sure I could find everything online, but doesn't that void the warranty? That also means I can't listen to them. I liked the sound of the Denon and the Bostons, but my unrefined audio pallette doesn't really know the difference! I guess it just boils down to what I think sounds good.
Sem Bronze Member Username: Sem Post Number: 21 Registered: Mar-04	Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 23:51 GMT Buying online doesn't void the warranty, It means you may have to send it away for repairs should the need arise. And a three hour drive to hear speakers isn't too bad on a nice sunny day. Hell, I flew over 700 miles to audition my PSB's. Well, I was flying in anyway, it just so happened I found myself in Chicago near Saturday Audio Exchange.
budget minded Bronze Member Username: Cheapskate Post Number: 25 Registered: Mar-04	Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 10:12 GMT you shouldn't have to send any mail ordered equipment away for warranty repairs unless your local repair shops don't handle that equipment. i had a mail ordered aiwa cassette that had a faulty door repaired at my local shop under warranty a few years back. my sony portable STARTED it's repair there, but they shipped it to sony because the problem was beyond their ability. listen to what speakers you can listen to locally just to get an idea for what you like. as mentioned, big vs. small speakers or soft dome vs. metal dome tweeters each have their own set of pros and cons. i actually got into hi-fi when i heard a friend's $100pr. 4 1/2" woofer with foam (!?) tweetered acoustic suspension infinity speakers years ago. that was my first time hearing music so clear and precise imaging, and it's what started my love of small acoustic suspension speakers. from everything i've read about the brand recently, they still offer excellent values in their price range. i took a quick look at stereophile's homepage, and found the model of the speaker they reviewed this month: infinity primus 150 (for $90 each at) http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8JdmjILfAw9/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?i=108P150 the stereophile review placed the primus 150 sonically over PSB (alphas i think) and boston acoustics in the same price range. they would make decent starter speakers as would PSB or bostons. you could probably find them cheaper at other stores besides crutchfield, but they give you a 30 day return policy and have super high customer service ratings. i bought my superzeros there a few years back, and they included a nice home theater guide with a ton of cable marking tags at no charge. still, keep researching and finding out what you like along with looking for equipment that gets favorable reviews in more than one source. by the way, your best bet valuewise when speaker shopping is in smaller speakers (cabinets are the most expensive part of any speaker) decent minimonitors often have better sound than more expensive larger speakers with just less bass. if you're just getting into hi-fi, minimonitors are a great start unless you're a bass freak. smaller speakers image batter and have lower cabinet resonances than larger speakers. i love my tiny rock solid but sadly discontinued NHT superzeros (under $200 pr. for my second pair)

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