Mp3 or cd sound quality
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Bronze Member Username: JayosaPost Number: 42 Registered: May-05 | i was doing some internet research what sounds better mp3 or store bought cd's...and i found out store bought cd's sound better..but since i dont have hundreds of dollars to buy cd's at the store i get my music from file sharing sites...so i was wondering is ther a way i can convert the songs i get from the file sharing site to a near store bought cd qulity...i dont know what it means to be an audiophile kinda person but i do know i like hearing my music very very crisp an clear....and since i have a hk reciever and athena speakers im sure i should be able to get some very good sound with good quality recordings....what quality recordings do you AUDIOPHILERS in this form use to listen to music... |
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Silver Member Username: W00bPost Number: 185 Registered: Mar-05 | there is no way to make an mp3 sound better than what it already is, the mp3's are created from the original CD in a lossy way, which means that data from the original is lossed in order to generate a smaller file. When compared to the original, mp3 will indeed sound different. Stick to either high-bitrate mp3's or VBR mp3's. Audiophiles on this forum, from what i have picked up, listen to recordings where either the instruments dominate, or the vocals dominate. and by dominate, i mean 99 or 100% of the music would be instruments, or vocals. examples include jazz and classical.. i don't know of many audiophiles that listen to today's alternative rock, metal.. etc, because those don't really revolve around quality. http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/10109 http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DA F1C |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 505 Registered: Nov-04 | jay, dustin is right. the whole point of mp3s are to compress the music to a smaller file. the compression leaves out alot of the recording whether you hear it or not. cds will always be better than store bought cds and some may argue that lps are better than cds. if you think about it, people use 50 dollar cd burners on their home computers to do file sharing. i am pretty sure that music production companies spend alot more than that on their own equipment meaning better sound quality. im not an audiophile and share the same situation as you jay. i like to listen to good quality music. any hissing or apparent poor quality in my digital music collection and its off my computer. stick with high bit rate or higher quality digital compression formats. i listen to classical, jazz, vocals, pop, kpop, jpop, lots of different music. but i agree, grunge and heavy metal are not quite hifi music. you can use a pair POS speakers or CVs and have more than enough speaker for the music. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 506 Registered: Nov-04 | haha, i just caught a typo. the third sentence should read like this " store bought cds will always sound better than mp3s...." |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 307 Registered: May-05 | "but i agree, grunge and heavy metal are not quite hifi music. you can use a pair POS speakers or CVs and have more than enough speaker for the music." I listen to a lot of alt rock/metal and definately don't agree. Just like any other music type, POS speakers sound like POS speakers. There is a definate difference between listening to Korn or Sublime on CV's and my PSB's. You actually hear differences in different cymbols, drums, guitars, etc. On POS speakers you it's hard to tell which guitar is playing when there are 3 different ones at the same time. They sound like a mess. On POS speakers it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between a kick drum, snare, and hi-hat. On my PSB's I can tell the difference. On POS speakers, if there is more than one singer at a time, it's hard to tell the where the voices are coming from, they blend. On my PSB's they're easy to tell. I could keep going and then get into imaging, soundstage, and so on, but I think I've proven my point. There are also a lot of bands who do take recording quality seriously. Metallica used too until Load and the rest of the garbage they recorded after that. Dave Matthews and Pink Floyd are some of the best stuff I've heard recorded. Korn, Tool, and System of a Down are pretty good, but it depends on the cd. Just because it's not "chamber music on pint sized wine and cheese speakers" (thanks Paul) doesn't mean it doesn't sound good. |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 17 Registered: Jul-05 | Now thats a good one Stu. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 507 Registered: Nov-04 | ok maybe on $5 speakers but no sh!t you are going to hear a difference between CVs and PSBs. point being that most of those types of music does not require high end equipment or high quality recordings to get the right sounds. yes dave mathews is pretty good recording wise and i would buy their stuff if i actually liked their music but thats a handful out of the hundreds of bands that sound like crap and dont care about recording quality. and please dont pick up pauls retarded @$$ sayings. people listen to classical with giant B&W floorstanders not with CVs. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 510 Registered: Nov-04 | let me ask you this stu, what is more worthwhile buying, a $3000 dj system or a $3000 hifi system? |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 343 Registered: Dec-03 | I'm going to join in on this one because I have a belief that MP3s may be the worst thing ever to happen to audiophiles. Not that they would listen to them but because it degrades the value of high quality recordings. How? If enough money from music purchases doesn't get spent on high quality productions, the record companies will stop making them. Look at SACD. To answer the original question: NO. As for rock music on speakers: Rock music can be as difficult to reproduce as classical because of the huge dynamic changes during playback. The wailing guitars and thumping bass can bring many speakers to their knees. I think many audiophiles don't play rock because the guitars are heavily distorted and easily drown out the other instruments along with many popular recordings just not being done well. One rock recording that I think is done well is Too High To Die by the Meat Puppets who were involved in producing this themselves. I've noticed some on this forum that say rock CDs are produced the same as any other and if they sound bad maybe it's the audio system. IMO, that's just not true. Not all CDs, vinyl, etc., are created equal. There are differences in the engineers experience and preferences, what the producer wants, what the record company wants, amps, EQ devices, etc., that cause good products and bad products in ALL genres. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1260 Registered: Feb-05 | Well said Tim! Often rock music sounds bad on a hi end system because alot of pop and rock music is produced with a extra emphasis in the upper and lower registers. The producers anticipate that their listeners will be using low end playback gear and won't care. When well done rock sounds very good. I don't listen to much of it anymore, but I just bought Wilco's "A Ghost is Born", sounds great. Christopher does have a good point though most rock recordings do not justify a great expenditure in gear. If all you listen to is metal I don't know if I would bother spending a fortune on a system. I would put that money into alcohol and Excedrin :-). |
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Silver Member Username: W00bPost Number: 187 Registered: Mar-05 | if you take a look at the links i posted, it will show you how the more modern rock CD's are sounding worse and worse as time goes on. the article is about how the mastering engineers think that making everything loud as possible is the best solution. also, on the second article, it will take you through a rush fan that explored this in-depth, and found over 110 clipped samples on a newer rush CD, as opposed to the well-mastered previous rush CD's. I use these articles as examples alot, they are very nice articles. check them out! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1262 Registered: Feb-05 | Will do Dustin. Thanks for the links. |
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Bronze Member Username: JayosaPost Number: 45 Registered: May-05 | well most songs i download are 128kbps so i convert it to 256kbps..... but since i dont have some1 at the moment to try the blind folded test to hear if theres a differance i was wondering if any of u have tried doing this and heard a differance.... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1263 Registered: Feb-05 | Read page 3 of this months "Stereophile". I have listened to a CD vs downloaded music. Didn't need the blindfold to hear the difference. You can wear one if you want...just kidding. |
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Silver Member Username: W00bPost Number: 189 Registered: Mar-05 | jay, you can't convert a lower quality mp3 to 256kbps and expect it to sound better, it has already lost enough data to convert the source down to 128kbps, it can't just regain this lost data out of nowhere.. sorry  |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 18 Registered: Jul-05 | I can most definately easily hear a difference between 128kbps and CD on my car stereo. 256 not so much, but they are substandard Sony's. I never really tested it out on my home system though. |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 78 Registered: Jun-05 | Jay, once they've been stripped down to 128 kbps, all you're doing by converting to 256 is wasting your time and hard drive space. Once the information is gone, you're not going to get it back, regardless of what you do. |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 79 Registered: Jun-05 | well said, Dustin.  |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 345 Registered: Dec-03 | I have noticed on some of the rock CDs I have that the better ones are those the artist has either produced or co-produced. Purely ancedotal, but interesting. |
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Bronze Member Username: JayosaPost Number: 46 Registered: May-05 | well thanks for the info then ill stop converting to 256...i guess the only way for me to get realy good sound is borrowing a freinds store bought cd an ripping it to my computer |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 21 Registered: Jul-05 | I typically listen to the remastered greatest hits cds of a lot of classic rock artists. They tend to be alright. Lynyrd Skynyrd's greatest hits by MCA came out pretty well for example (IMO anyways). On a side note, I'm going to be able to meet Lynyrd himself in a couple weeks! |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 22 Registered: Jul-05 | Of course to think of it Boston's greatest hits turned out like crap.... |
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New member Username: Dipren443Pittsburgh, PA USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Jul-05 | "well thanks for the info then ill stop converting to 256...i guess the only way for me to get realy good sound is borrowing a freinds store bought cd an ripping it to my computer" Unless you are ripping lossless, anytime you rip to mp3 you are losing data. If you truly want the best sound quality and it is something you really enjoy listening to, it is just best to buy the CD. After first listening to mp3's on my Xtant/Boston Acoustics/Eclipse car audio setup while in college, I have always just used mp3's as a demo because the second you put in an mp3 cd, you knew it. The sound quality isn't even close. |
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New member Username: Dipren443Pittsburgh, PA USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Jul-05 | Oh and to add, if you really must download and want the best quality possible, look for files in lossless format, i.e. .shn, .flac, etc.... They are soundboard quality recordings. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 311 Registered: May-05 | Christopher Lee - Sorry, I was away for the weekend. I wasn't avoiding your follow up. "but i agree, grunge and heavy metal are not quite hifi music. you can use a pair POS speakers or CVs and have more than enough speaker for the music." "ok maybe on $5 speakers but no sh!t you are going to hear a difference between CVs and PSBs." Maybe I'm a little slow, but don't these two statements contradict each other? On one hand you said it's pointless to invest in hi-fi for rock/metal/grunge because it all sounds like crap, yet you then say there is a huge difference between CV's and PSB's. If the recording quality of these types of music is so bad, and certainly don't need hi-fi equipment to get the right sounds, then the CV's and PSB's should sound exactly the same; the CV's should bring the sound quality to or very near it's limits. Yet I hear so much more on the PSB's than POS speakers. Could it be that most people who listen to this type of music listen to it on POS systems (not just speakers) and maybe you're used to hearing it that way? I have listened to my music on some high end gear (my cousin's McIntosh seperates, Maggies, and M&K sub) and it sounds even better on his than mine. I guess their really shouldn't be any difference between his and mine because "those types of music does not require high end equipment or high quality recordings to get the right sounds." No type of music requires high end equipment to get the right sounds. It all depends on how the listener wants the music to sound. To you my music may all sound the same regardless of what it's being played on. To me, chamber music, classical, etc. pretty much sounds the same. If you don't know the music, you really can't hear the subtlties can you? "let me ask you this stu, what is more worthwhile buying, a $3000 dj system or a $3000 hifi system?" What does this question have to do with anything? I don't know. But my answer should be pretty obvious. Would I be posting on a hifi board if I was more interested in a dj system? But then again, it depends on the application. If I were trying to fill a large room with a high SPL and didn't care about sound quality, it would be more worthwhile to buy a $3000 dj system. Beacuse my house isn't an auditorium, I don't need the paint to come off the walls (but it comes close sometimes when the landlord is at work), and I actually care about the way it sounds, I would have to say the $3000 hifi system (mine is about $2200 - limited because of funds, not due to hitting a brick wall in sound quality for my music) would be a better investment for me. "people listen to classical with giant B&W floorstanders not with CVs." So no one listens to classical music with CV's or any other 'cheap' speakers? Not everyone can afford 'hifi' speakers or even wants to. My next door neighbors listen to classical (and other similar types of music) on a KLH system and are happy with it. It sounds good enough for them and they saved a few bucks. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 513 Registered: Nov-04 | you still ignore the main point. not too many people listening to heavy metal, grunge, punk rock care about whether or not a snare sounds like a snare. they like the music loud and noisy. now YOU may like to hear the differences between the different musicians and the different drums but that doesnt mean everyone does. so i may make a generalization, but it still holds some truth. and how does that first statement that you attack contratdict istelf? CVs are crap, PSBs are in a different league. i said it was pointless to make the investment but im not going to deny a speaker is better than another. thats a fact just like grunge heavy metal doesnt require a large budget. so if people dont give a damn when they listen, why would the recording artist care? people who listen to jazz, classical do care about whether or not the clarinet sounds like a clarinet. does that make them better? no. it just means they demand something different from their music. your method of argument is pretty childish if you ask me. yea i had some stupid stuff mixed into my arguement but i still had a point which you completely ignored. go listen to you rock on your psbs. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 314 Registered: May-05 | To you it may be pointless to make that investment. To me it would be pointless to make the same investment if I were only going to listen to classical. Just because you don't understand the demands of my music (just like I don't understand the demands of yours) doesn't mean it's pointless. That was my main point. Many of the people that listen to the music I listen to want it loud, and not really anything else. I won't disagree with that for a second (and don't think that I have anywhere in my posts). But most people that listen to any kind of music (classical included) don't put a 10th as much effort into making it sound good as we do. How many people on the street know of more than one or two brands that we kick around here? To most they are no name brands. "people who listen to classical do care about whether or not the clarinet sounds like a clarinet. does that make them better? no. it just means they demand something different" Not every one of them does, but that's also generalizing. People who listen to rock music care about whether a drum sounds like a drum, and a guitar sounds like a guitar. Not everyone does, but thats generalizing too. Now, as far as being childish? You've got to be kidding me. I initially stated my opinion on the matter, and gave a fun Paul quote (that one never gets old). Somehow you took personal offense to what I had said and turned it into a pissing contest. In my second post, I felt as though two of your statements contradicted each other, and was hoping that you would clarify them, as you have yet to do. I re-post my opinion of why the contradict each other - "On one hand you said it's pointless to invest in hi-fi for rock/metal/grunge because it all sounds like crap, yet you then say there is a huge difference between CV's and PSB's." If it all sounds the same, how can PSB's be any better for rock than CV's? That's the contradiction I see in your post. Some examples of being childish (You started it) - "ok maybe on $5 speakers but no sh!t you are going to hear a difference between CVs and PSBs." Very articulate. "let me ask you this stu, what is more worthwhile buying, a $3000 dj system or a $3000 hifi system?" That's not trying to belittle me is it? I know... I'm a punk kid who listens to music at insanely loud music to piss off my parents because I still live in there basement. "go listen to you rock on your psbs." Is this supposed to offend me? Am I uncivilized because I don't listen to "chamber music on pint sized wine and cheese speakers" like you do? I know, you're better than me for this fact, and you are obviously much more educated, civilized, and well respected. Sorry for the misunderstanding. One more thing - it's also childish to get defensive and take it personally when someone has an opinion that isn't the same as yours. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 514 Registered: Nov-04 | you know what, fine you do have a point. i was being somewhat moronic with my statements. but some things did set me off like your need to copy paul. regardless, most people could care less about recording quality except the few people that pop their heads in here. anyway, i think we have highjacked this thread long enough. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 315 Registered: May-05 | I agree with you here. I think Paul's lines are pretty funny though. If we don't have a laugh once in a while, what's the point? |
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Unregistered guest | CD's are mass produced for the people who actualy buy the music, & that mostly includes kids who listen on 'tinny' radios in their bed rooms, or teeny-boppers that don't know or even care about the difference that might be heard on a £5,000 system, while dancing the night way in a semi-sober state in some seedy night club. On another note, if i play a bought CD on my system it only plays in stereo, but if i rip it to my comp as a 192kb mp3 & then play it, again, through the same Technics 200wpc surround sound amp into Bose Acoustimass 12 (5 pair of miniture speakers & a 3 speaker Bose array Accoustimass Base unit, (one base speaker for rear sound) it plays in a (obviously) simulated, but very good surround sound, & for space versus trade-off for quality, it's mp3's every time for me were space is a premium. Remeber tho that many people rip music now & put it up for download, people who don't realy know what they are doing. Recording mp3's is very much affected by the set-up & codecs used. If you realy must insist on an excellent recording, Windows losless variable bit-rate is an excellent way of ripping CD's as it drops kb's from the 'silent' parts of a CD track only. (in theory) |
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New member Username: Mr_biasPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-05 | I'm usually very concerned with audio quality, but I too use MP3s as much as possible. I use my computer as a juke-box, with an array of different players (XMPlay, Winamp 5, among others) and a Creative remote control to top it off. It works well, especially through a surround-sound receiver. I can tell a difference between my MP3s and CDs, however. I try to rip all my purchased CDs at a variable bit-rate of 192kbps (sometimes I go a little higher) with the Lame codec, which is considered to be one of the best MP3 converters, or so I hear. The files are a bit large at this bit rate, but it's worth it to retain the sound quality. I still enjoy the 'experience' of using a CD or even an LP - but the convenience of using my computer as a music station overwhelms the other factors. I have noticed, much to my dismay, that every time I upgrade my computer's sound system (the speakers/amp/receiver that I run the sound through) I am more aware of the limitations of MP3 (and compression in general) and usually long for the pristine CD version (running from my CD player to the receiver through optical digital, oh well). On another note...upgrading your soundcard can be a great enhancement for those of you who use your computer as your music station. Currently I am using an older Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, and while it has many output options, it lacks built in Dolby Digital decoding and output. Here's one card that seems to get a lot of positive press, and it goes up to 7.1 encoding with optical digital output... http://www.audiotrak.net/prodigy71.htm Not bad for around $85 online. Speaking of upgrading only to hear limitations of MP3s, however... |
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Unregistered guest | Having followed this post, what are your oppinions on the actual sound quality level of cd's. Is a waste of space to put them onto my PC jukebox at WMA-lossless 940kps. If this exceedes most cd's I am doing nothing but wasting space. What is the consensus and how are you handling this. I have 300+ cd's and most don't indicate specific btrate. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 28 Registered: May-05 | I don't buy CD's. I burn mp3 files to cd-r, and get maybe 85-90% of the qualiy. You CAN hear a difference between a burned mp3 and CD, but it's not a night and day contrast. The CD just has a more natural, open sound to it. When I feel a recording is worthwhile of buying, I go out and buy either the DVD-A or SACD. CD's are on the way out, I hope. |
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Anonymous | Thanks but someone emailed me what I was looking for. CD quality is 1411kps, so I am not wasting too much space. However, 4 different studies have found 360kps or higher to be unrecognizibly different for this purpose. So in that sense I am wasting 50% of my space. Its objective. |
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