I was finally able to hear the JMlab Chorus 706 S and PSB Image B25 speakers tonight, and I'd like to share what I heard.
First one up was the Chorus 706 S -
I immediately noticed how all of the instruments and voices were separated - as if I could point to exactly where I heard each specific sound coming from - they sounded beautiful also.
The Image B25 was considerably different and I ended up not knowing which sound I preferred!
The B25 seemed livelier, "punchier", with more "UMPH!" than the Chorus 706 S -
but I could not point to all of the separate instruments, voices and sounds the way I could with the Chorus 706 S - the sound coming from the Image B25 seemed more blended and blurred - all sounds seeming to come equally from everywhere.
If only I could find the best qualities of both speakers in one speaker!
Art, no offense, but that is like the tenth time you've pointed me in the direction of the Paradigm Studio 20's - and that is a can of worms that I am trying to not open.
For one thing they exceed the budget that I promised myself that I would stay within - figuring that I could get a good product in the $500 range.
I also don't want to up my budget because I really don't want to have to do all of that additional homework of looking for and comparing all of the speakers in that new price range!
I also don't want to up my budget on loudspeakers because then I would feel the need to up my budget on everything - receiver, subwoofer, DVD player...CD player - I am trying to avoid a quality mismatch.
Are they THAT much better?
What would you call the next best things to the Studio 20's in the $500 to $600 range?
Actually I believe that I have mentioned several speakers. Have you tried any but the 2 you mentioned. You ask for characteristics from speakers that I don't know of in your price range, and I've heard a lot of speakers.
Here is a suggestion I gave you from another thread.
"Timothy is right we all have our biases. I like all three of the speakers you've listed. The Paradigm is a good all around speaker if you are on a budget. I would also suggest looking at the Epos ELS 3. PSB makes a fine speaker and I believe that the Dynaudio is perhaps in a league ahead of these other speakers. All of these speakers require a quality amplifier to perform their best."
Like most good speakers they perfrom better with really good electronics. Having heard most PSB's I really do like them but find a significant difference between the Image series and Paradigm Studio's.
Have you had opportunity to hear the Epos ELS 3, and have you been paying attention to Ascend/Alegria thread. Perhaps you might find one of them to your liking. Keep searching and listening and don't settle for anything less than something that really impresses you. Good luck.
Tim: How many speakers have you listened to so far? Any one stick out in your mind as being particularly superior to all the rest? Any that were significantly worse?
Oh one other thing, the gentleman at the shop thought that the punchier/livelier sound I was hearing in the PSB's was probably more bass than the Chorus speakers - he seemed to think that I could keep the imaging and separation by going with the Chorus speakers and then get the added punch by adding a sub...your thoughts?
Also, how do the best of them compare with what are supposed to be cheaper bang for the buck speakers like the Paradigm Atom or Athena bookshelf models?
A sub will add punch alright; so long as you take some care in properly integrating it into your system and calibrating it, that would be a fine solution.
I'll be really honest with you - the PSB, Paradigm and B&W speakers that I heard sounded very similar to each other - none of them really turned me off, but none of them really pulled ahead of the others either.
Now I don't know if the JMlab Chorus 706S sounded "better" to me...but they did sound considerably different in an interesting kind of way - I really liked how I could pinpoint an area of the soundstage where certain instruments or voices were coming from - but they seemed a little more "polite" and less lively than the PSB's.
Well, perhaps you have found your answer then, ehh? Combined with a decent sub, you should have a definate winner on your hands. Either way, ask your dealer to set em up with a good sub and see what happens.
"You ask for characteristics from speakers that I don't know of in your price range, and I've heard a lot of speakers"
Art, sorry if I offended you - I am just getting a little frustrated and feel like waving the magic wand and finally ending up with the speakers that I will ultimately choose!
Yes, I was surprisingly unimpressed by the Studio 20's today - they sounded good but they did not pull ahead of the pack like I expected.
Do you think I could get the liveliness and punch of the B25's and retain all of the qualities that I liked about the JMlab speakers if I bought the JMlabs AND integrated it with a proper subwoofer?
I think that it is clear that you really liked the sound of JMLab speakers. I know that you can find a quality sub and get all the punch you need. Devil is right the key is integration. If music is important to you, you will likely want a sub with no larger than a 10 inch driver. There is one that really stands out at a reasonable price, the Tannoy TS10. It is a very musical downfiring sub.
BTW Timothy, you really did not offend me at all. When it comes to speakers we all hear differently and I wouldn't expect everybody to be impressed by the same sound. Frankly it would be a pretty boring world if it were so. I just want you to find speakers that sound good to YOU and that you will enjoy.
Yes I really did like the way the JMlab speakers sounded - but they also seemed to lack some things that I liked about other speakers, which is why I was wondering if I could find the best of both worlds, at a reasonable price, in another speaker, or get what they seemed to lack from a subwoofer if I went ahead and purchased the JMlab speakers.
Timothy to be fair to the JM Labs even the ones in the stores may be fairley new with no hours on them.High end stores generally dont break budget gear in as extensively as they do the higher priced stuff,The Labs take atleast 300 hours before they loosin up or even more.I am familiar with both speakers you have been auditioning,and the 706s do have the kind bass drive as the B25 and Mini Monitor,the glass fiber cones takes a long time to loosen up.Also the 706s respond more like a high end speaker to amps and sources so the balance in the setup that you heard may not suite them very well in the bass.
I think he really needs to listen to Epos els 3 to Art if he likes the Labs he will love the them especially without all the fusyness,and their midbass is almost perfect their better in that regard than some trully expensive speakers.
The ELS 3 is a very balanced speaker. It's very much like the Mini Monitor without the very slight emphasis on the midbass that the Mini has. One thing to remember is that you ain't gonna find perfection at this price range. You can find speakers that you can grow into with even better amplification and sources. The Epos is just such a speaker.
They very well may be the closes thing you can get at that price.You may find exciting short demo speakers than they are,but once you get some time to really listen to them,you will start to realize how many things they really do correctly,the big thing about them is that they so musical, a killer buy!
"I think he really needs to listen to Epos els 3 to Art if he likes the Labs he will love the them especially without all the fusyness,and their midbass is almost perfect their better in that regard than some trully expensive speakers"
Well than why not the Epos M5's if I was toying with the idea of spending that kind of money on the Studio 20's?!
For one thing the ELS-3 seems like a simple little black box, if I am not mistaken, and appearance is a little important to me (hence crossing the NHT SB3 and Ascend Acoustic CBM-170 off the list) AND I was trying to avoid the problems of limiting myself to amps that can handle a 4 ohm speaker.
Don't you love this stuff Timothy. You find a great speaker, and then you learn of another speaker that might be just a little bit better. It's enough to drive a man insane.
As for subs, I would look at the HSU line as well.
Plus the ELS-3's are only 200 GBP (around $350 US) - I am willing to spend another $200! Surely there has got to be a better speaker than the ELS-3 for another $200 more.
That is why I'd really like to hear the B&W DM602 S3's - I've read a lot of things that make me very interested and curious.
Hell, if you could trust WHAT HI*FI SOUND AND VISION magazine and want the ultimate in affordability then I should just get all Wharfedale stuff! It's amazing!
product of the year - speaker!
best full size home theater package under 500 GBP!
product of the year - subwoofer!
but the stuff is so affordable I am very skeptical!
I do have one concern - I am currently on the road with my job and I don't yet have a place where I will be living permanently yet -
most living rooms in affordable apartments tend to be small, so -
would medium sized speakers like PSB's or B&W 600 series speakers be overkill in a room where I could not space them out and give them real room to breathe?
Should I consider going small like Monitor Audio Bronze B2's or Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's?
Yeah, I am just wondering if I'll ever really be able to reproduce what I heard with those JMlab speakers, the way they sounded in that large sound padded room, in a small to medium sized living room.
The Wharfedale stuff is actually pretty good, surprisingly (after all when was the last time What HiFi got it right?). That said, Wharfedale has a lot of strong opposition in the form of both B&W's Dm600 series, EPOS's ELS series and Focal JmLab's Chorus range. Ignore at your peril.
To be fair What HIFI rarely gets it right,but they actually have reviewed Wharfedale pretty good.They really seem to be partial to a few brands{Mission in particular}like no other magazine that have ever seen except for Home Theater mag here in the states about Definitive technology.As you may well know the Missions that cost 50k they are the only one Ive seen with a good review, other than that they have never gotten a good review over here in the us and rarely in other mag in the world,so What HIFIs opinions does leave something to be desired.
Dadblameit Tawaun I looked up those Odyssey Epiphany's and they look very interesting. Very few speakers that I haven't heard that I'm curious about but that one has my attention. Another one is (old timers close your ears) the Green Mountain speakers would be interesting to hear.
One of the reviewers had both of them at the same time,he compared them a lot,but he should have just done a shootout.He ended up favoring the Epips,but it was real close,that is the speaker that Anon has been raving about isnt it?I would also add that the GMs are $400 more so thats a helluva statementlots of people and experts just love the GMs for tonal accuracy.And its over on audioreview that chose the Epips over them to.
Yea but Tawaun as you know having read this forum for a while you can find someone or some review to favor any speaker, cheap or not, over another higher profile one "The giant killer syndrome". Usually I ignore it because I know better (SDAT's for example) but the Odyssey appears to truly be special. I am not in the market for a speaker as I am satisfied with mine, but like you Tawaun I have a hunger for exceptional products.
Art did you read the reviews,I have never read one like the TNT review I must say Im absolutely astonished that they are everything he said they were and then some.The review was actually a shootout and they pretty much moped the floor with the competition and it came down to them and the Dyn 42s.
I also checked out show reports and everything I read whetted my appetite even more. They really are interesting. I wonder if there is a place around here to hear them. I am also interested in hearing their amp. Might make for a good bedroom system, especially using an Era sub.
They are factory dirrect,but Klaus Blung is the coolest dude I know in Hifi you get 100% trade in value for the rest of your life.And not to mention the 20 year warranty with the electronics and they are giant killers,you can always know that you are gonna make it to the top of thier mountain,hey Im staying with them!
PatrickBateman
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Hey all I was in the same boat as most everyone a year ago. I am in an area where I could get out and listen to everything. I was looking for a very open sound, accurate, amazing imaging, decent looks. I really didnt care about how bass was produced because I was going to be using a a nice subwoofer. If you are using a sub, I think that kind of negates the "which speaker goes lower" case I hear from a lot of people IMHO. Here is a quick list of what I heard- -Paradigm Studio 20 -Axiom M2 -Axiom M22 -Monitor Audio B2 -Monitor Audio S1 -Ascend CBM 170 -Triangle Titus -Dynaudio Audience 42 -Totem (forget model) -Quad 11L -Klipsch (forget model) -Athena bookshelves -Linn Katan -Polk Lsi 7 and 9 -Vienna Acoustics Haydn -Epos ELS3 -Boston Acoustics (forgot model) -JM Lab 706 -Spendor 3/5 and probably some more I cant think of off the top of my head. I was like Tim, asking a million questions and finally decided, as big of a pain in the a** it was, I had to get out and hear everything. I finally decided after I heard all of the above that for me, I liked the Triangle Titus the best. I have been loving them for a year. Of course now I am thinking of upgrading
Excellent Patrick I had forgotten about the Triangle speakers. They are a very good speaker. We recently lost our closest Triangle dealer. What your post illustrates best the is plethora of choices there are available and that there really is something for everyone. Even more importantly you can ask questions until you are blue in the face but it's going to take getting out there and hearing every speaker that you can to get the biggest picture. Always remember when listening that there are a whole bunch of variables that change from one listening environment to the next (the source, amplification, room acoustics etc) and that may have as much of an impact on your choice as the speaker itself.
I think if you're already lovingly disappointed with the Triangles enough to want to upgrade after just one year, you should have listened to more than 20 pairs of speakers a year ago. But, then what do I know, I'm an old phart and my speakers are 30 years old.
