Can 8" subwoofer be used effectively as midbass?
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Bronze Member Username: InvictuzSeattle, Wa Usa Post Number: 99 Registered: Jan-05 | I am searching for a good midbass solution and have come across Cerwin-Vega HED-D802 DVC 4ohm 8" subs. Can these be used as midbass in an SQ 60%/40% SP setup? |
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Silver Member Username: Riebread77Post Number: 330 Registered: Jun-05 | get a speaker for midbass...you want to hit between 60 hz- 250 hz at least...a subwoofer won't hit 250 hz effectively...get a midbass driver specifically for that. |
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Gold Member Username: IlluminatorPost Number: 1087 Registered: Apr-05 | Yeah, most subs will sound like garbage playing 250hz. It would sound all right if you set the LPF crossover at 100-150 maybe in addition to a midbass driver, though that isn't much of an improvement. |
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Silver Member Username: InvictuzSeattle, Wa Usa Post Number: 101 Registered: Jan-05 | The specs on the 8" HED D802 indicate 20-500Hz. My guess is that Cerwin-Vega is trying to push a midrange as a subwoofer. http://www.cerwinvega.com/products/mobileaudio/hed/hed8.html Would it still be better to go with something labeled midbass or would these provide a good midbass (thinking six or eight of them). |
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Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 3247 Registered: Aug-04 | Your better off getting a Midbass driver. Subwoofers are made for low bass frequencies, and midbass drivers are for your midbass. There's not much you can do about it. Even an 8" sub isn't gonna sound very good in the 200+ hz range. |
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Silver Member Username: InvictuzSeattle, Wa Usa Post Number: 104 Registered: Jan-05 | thanks! thats the info i was looking for... any suggestions on a sub 100$ midbass driver? (i want six or eight so 1000$ total is what i am willing to spend for drivers) i currently have four 10s installed and four 10s in boxes in my garage of which i am considering adding two more to my install. |
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Silver Member Username: Sancho886El Cajon, CA US Post Number: 201 Registered: Jun-04 | http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?cid=15&pid=32&cur=USD these just came out. they are on sale for $50. i ordered 2 myself. check out the video under gallery. |
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Silver Member Username: InvictuzSeattle, Wa Usa Post Number: 114 Registered: Jan-05 | Roger: have you installed them yet? how do they sound? |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Chicago/atlanta Post Number: 600 Registered: May-05 | if you can get these things in your staock location, please let me know what kind of ride you have.  |
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Silver Member Username: Monkey_manPost Number: 221 Registered: May-05 | D@mn thos are so tight. So it i replaced my 6.5 components i could use thoughs?? |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Chicago/atlanta Post Number: 601 Registered: May-05 | i'm not familiar at all with them. they were just recently released. based on the sheer size of these things, i'm guessing they are subs designed for rear deck applications, maybe. just speculation, but i can't see these things fitting up front in stock locations. they are just to big. further, they don't strike me as particularly capable of reproducing music in the upper midbass range accurately. but again, i really have no sure clue. |
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Silver Member Username: InvictuzSeattle, Wa Usa Post Number: 120 Registered: Jan-05 | yeah, i am going to look around this week for more more info on the Elemental Design midbass...still searching for a good $100 per driver solution... thinking about installing two to four in my headliner facing the front at a slight downward angle (have to remove headliner to replace sunroof motor anyway)... |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Chicago/atlanta Post Number: 602 Registered: May-05 | be sure to take into account from where you want the sound to be originating. iyou migh effect an unusually high sound stage if you go that route. just something to consider. |
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Silver Member Username: Sancho886El Cajon, CA US Post Number: 202 Registered: Jun-04 | invictuz, no i have not received them yet. here is a thread on them from icix from some dude that already has some. http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15254 |
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Silver Member Username: InvictuzSeattle, Wa Usa Post Number: 126 Registered: Jan-05 | MikeChec : thats the one thing i am concerned about = the high midbass destroying the sound stage. The only way to find out is try but then i have four holes in my headliner if it turns out muddy... any idea how tweeter and midrange place could compliment or help offset any negative affects of such a high midbass? Roger: Can you post feedback when you get yours installed? What is the speaker arrangement you have in the setup you will be using these? |
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Silver Member Username: InvictuzSeattle, Wa Usa Post Number: 136 Registered: Jan-05 | mikeChec: any idea how tweeter and midrange place could compliment or help offset any negative affects of such a high midbass |
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Silver Member Username: ScubasteveAnnapolis, MD Post Number: 275 Registered: May-05 | Invictuz, I really can't see any car needing 6 or 8 8" midbass drivers, in addition to 10" subs. Usually you only see 8" midbass drivers as part of 3-way components sets where you have a midrange and a tweeter PER 8" woofer. If you do decide to go with having these 8s all around the car, your soundstage will suffer dramatically. It'll be like listening to a drummer that plays his cymbals and snares in front of you and has a kick drum on a remote control that sits behind you...next to the bassist. |
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Silver Member Username: Mikechec9Chicago/atlanta Post Number: 611 Registered: May-05 | ^^ditto |
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Silver Member Username: InvictuzSeattle, Wa Usa Post Number: 144 Registered: Jan-05 | thanks, i was asking for tips on manipulating the soundstage through placement of speakers. The reason for 6 (or 8) is bassed (sic) on the number of subs. Currently 4 (at 1ohm w/2500w Orion) soon to be 6. They put out a tremendous sound that at times obscures the mids and highs of the two pair of Infintiy 6000cs (four 6.5 midrange)... |
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Silver Member Username: ScubasteveAnnapolis, MD Post Number: 301 Registered: May-05 | Alright, the problem with putting in "six or eight" 8 inch midbass woofers as you suggested earlier is that atleast most of them will be somewhere in the back of the car. Concept works with subwoofers. Not midbass. Subs (when crossed over appropriately) only produce sound in frequencies where sound is non-directional. Midbass is certainly not non-directional, you can hear where its coming from. Instead of trying to compensate for subs by getting more and more speakers which will worsen your sound stage, why not have a way to simply turn down the bass when you actually want to hear the song. Something like the AudioControl Epic 160 would do the trick. Also, you should think about getting a front stage that can handle more power. |
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Silver Member Username: Riebread77Post Number: 398 Registered: Jun-05 | I just bought myself one of the 6.5" elemental designs midbass/subwoofer in the dual 2 ohm version...$50 + shipping...i also bought a JL Audio e2150 to pair with it...puts out 150 watts RMS (12.5V) @ 4 ohms bridged (AB circuitry) |
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Silver Member Username: Riebread77Post Number: 399 Registered: Jun-05 | can't wait to hear how it sounds...that guy who wrote the review above sounded like he loved the sound. |
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Silver Member Username: GeekbikePost Number: 350 Registered: Dec-04 | UPS guy didn't show up today, otherwise I'd be playing with an EU. |
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Silver Member Username: Riebread77Post Number: 400 Registered: Jun-05 | yea...this thread got me excited about it 2...I have an old buick so there is no center console...more like a couch straight across...i'm going to put it right in front of the seats in the center on the floor...what amp are you going to power it with |
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Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 4330 Registered: May-04 | The main reason that 8" subwoofers aren't used as midbasses are because that the motor designs differ. A subwoofer will use more motor strength and a longer voice coil to achieve the excursion and control needed to produce low frequencies. Downside is that this increases inductance, which hinders transient response and higher frequency performance is affected by the inductive rolloff. Mass, while a consideration, isn't as critical in a subwoofer as a higher mass tends to produce stronger low bass. Downsides are lowered efficiency and more distortion, which again, isn't as much of an issue with a subwoofer as low frequency distortion is much harder to hear than distortion in the rest of the frequency spectrum. It's all about compromises. FYI, the frequency response of a speaker is typically taken in an open room with an infinite baffle setup for the driver, and it is measured (typically) to a +/-3db tolerance for car audio. It doesn't truly give an idea of performance at that frequency, but simply that it can produce that frequency at a volume level within tolerance compared to the baseline. Inductive rolloff doesn't cause an instantaneous rolloff in volume level, but more gradual. A speaker can produce a volume level comparable to the baseline for a given amount, but it won't sound great doing it. |
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Silver Member Username: InvictuzSeattle, Wa Usa Post Number: 147 Registered: Jan-05 | Wow! great infor Jonathan! This weeks research has turned up what appears to be a moderately priced solution: JL 6w0...as 6.5" midbass driver. Am told two would do the trick. Can have a customer door enclosure built for about 400$ a set... Anyone using the JL 6w0 for midbass? Any thoughts on this speaker. I have seen ads claiming this is a midbass driver but when i look at the datasheet it looks more like a subwoofer in a 6.5" frame http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/pdfs/6_8W0_MAN.pdf |
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Silver Member Username: Riebread77Post Number: 402 Registered: Jun-05 | the frequency response is said to be 20 hz - 1khz...i'm planning on high pass it over at 60 hz @ 24 db/oct (external crossover ) and 50 hz @ another 24 db/oct (amp)...and then low pass it @ 200 hz @ 24 db/oct (amp) and 250 hz @ 24 db/oct(external crossover)...i really only want to use it as a midbass, not a subwoofer, or midrange. ps...good info jonathan |
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