I am about to purchase a new home system, and after reading most of the reviews, I am being pushed towards a NAD C372 amp with a NAD C542 CD player. The problem is speakers. Without hearing them, the guy in the store that i emailed, has suggested Thiel CS.5's but the reviews on them are not that good for heavy bass music. I do not listen to classical or jazz music so i am worried that these don't cut it. The salesman also recommended mission M78SE's but I can't see them in any reviews, i can see M782SE's but that is it. I liked the look of the mission M53's to be honest but I don't know if i can get them that easily.
Any advice would be appreciated as i am very new to decent Hifi....
That's a nice combination of electronics. Save some cash for half decent interconnects and speaker cable in order to preserve the signal.
As to your choice of speakers, this is a bit more awkward. Speakers affect the tonal balance and general sound of a system in fundamental ways. When choosing a better system, it's good to find a dealer who can guide you but also to listen for yourself in order to check that the presentation is to your taste.
I would not choose Missions for your choice in music. I don't know the Thiels and I'd hope the person you are in contact with is taking into account your tastes when he recommends them.
Other brands that can provide a rocking sound with fidelity would be Totem and Dynaudio, but finding these may be a bit more of an effort. If you want real bass driving designs, have a look at B&W DM603s, JBL and Cerwin Vega! These are not what I would call HiFi speakers but with enough punch behind them (such as from a C372) they'll provide a great deal of bass and grunt. Not for me, since I like finesse as well, but they're definitely for some people.
By the way, the reason I wouldn't choose Missions is that they present music in a somewhat polite, neutral manner. Not really what you're looking for I think.
Ian - What do you consider heavy bass music, and is that what you primarily listen to? I listen to music with a lot of bass - Black Sabbath, Korn, Sublime, just to name a few. Is this along the same lines, or are you referring to pipe organ type bass? From what I understand, pipe organ bass is a lot lower in frequency and thus much harder to reproduce accurately.
I own a NAD C320 BEE and use PSB Image T55's. I've found these to have very tight fast bass as well as great clarity and detail. Had I not bought PSB, I would have bought Paradigm. They are similar, yet different. I also like Totems as Frank suggests (Arro in particular), but they are a different presentation and don't have the punch that the PSB has. I have owned a couple NAD and PSB combos for the last 10-15 years, so I am a little biased toward both of them. For my music and my tastes they are the best combination in my price range.
Listen to as many different combinations as you can. This is the only way you will truly get exactly what you like.
Guys, thanks very much for your replies. Regarding the music types, I am definately more of a Black Sabbath man than a pipe organ type kinda guy! There has now been a further spanner thrown in the works though. I have now found another dealer who is offering me a Rotel system for similar amounts of money to the NAD. The items are RC 1070, RB 1070 and RDV 1060. The speakers on offer here are B&W 704's or 603's. Now I am really confused!
I would take the NAD combination over the Rotels since they Rotel CD players just seem to lack that bit of sparkle and life that the C542 enjoys.
As to speakers, I haven't tried the 704 with the C352 since the 704 is a much more expensive speaker than normally used with these electronics. Then again, the 704 is a MUCH better speaker than the 603 (all bass and no subtlety), far better built with much higher quality components. Provided your room can take a 704 (which needs a fair amount of space around it), then it would be a good match, sine the 372 is fairly powerful.
As much as I like NAD, I really like the Rotel/B&W combo. They just sound good together. The B&W's being quite laid back and the Rotel's being forward I think they bring out the best in each other.
700 series B&W's can use higher end gear and continue to give you greater benefits, but among mid fi gear I believe that Rotel really yields the best results with B&W speakers.
Don't get me wrong NAD would work well and also represents the top tier in that price bracket. So in the end it will likely just come down to personal preference.
I agree with Art here. I didn't care much for B&W or Rotel until I heard a Rotel RA-1062 with B&W 703's (may have been 704 but I'm 90% sure they weren't) this weekend. They sounded great together. I didn't think the Rotel could do these any justice, but I was very surprised. My dislike for B&W comes from the 600 series. They just seem too dry and bland for my ears. To me B&W doesn't get interesting until the 700 series.
To add to my previous post, I found the B&W/Rotel combo to be just as synergistic as NAD/PSB. Not that they sound the same, but they complement each other very well. If I needed to replace my current set up, the Rotel/B&W 700 series combo would definately be high up on my short list. Did I mention that I don't like the 600 series at all?
Rantz
Unregistered guest
Posted on
"My dislike for B&W comes from the 600 series. They just seem too dry and bland for my ears."
Without meaning to hijack this thread I couldn't let this one of Stu's go without response:
Stu I use 4 B&W 602 S3's and an LCR600 in my system with a Marantz SR-7300 and I can only describe the B&W's sound as liquid gold - "dry and bland" I just don't get. I don't know about the UK or US, but imho here in Aus, I doubt there is any better speaker for the money: clear articulate highs, decent solid bass without overblown boominess and a defined, if not maybe a slightly relaxed mid range and never any listener fatigue. Sure we all have our own opinions and we hear things differently, and Mr McDonald should understand this fact and listen to different brands for himself.
My father died in May and I just received all of his McIntosh audio equipment. I never had anything this nice before of my own. I always had one piece stereo systems out-of-the-box, so this is the first time with high end stuff. My dad seemed to be upgrading, because some of the units he had appear to perform the same function.
I will list what I have and then ask two questions hoping someone here can answer. Any help would be appreciated.
1. Mac 4300V Receiver 2. MR 78 FM Tuner 3. MA 6900 Integrated Amp 4. Mc7270 power stereo Amp 5. SL-6 Speakers 6. XR 250 Loud Speaker 7. C34V Audio Video Control Center
Now, as I see it, I should build my best stereo system around the MA 6900 Integrated Amp. I plan to use the SL-6 speakers with that and then just hook up my own turntable, cd player and casette deck to that. Does that make sense?
I consider the other pieces "leftovers" to put in the bedrooms as secondary stereo systems. I am going to put the MC7270 power amp (which weighs a ton!) together with the FM tuner, Audio Video Control Center (which I think is what they call a "preamplifier") and XR250 speakers in one bedroom.
Then, I was going to hook the Mac4300V receiver up to my tv with another set of my own speakers for surround sound. Does this sound reasonable?
Can the Mac4300V Receiver power speakers itself or does it need to be hooked up to some kind of amplifier device?
I'm a novice at this and I've ordered Home Theater for Dummies from Amazon, but the more I read the more confused I get. So, any info you give me would be SO welcome. Thanks
MLJ - Please start your own thread. To do that, click on the "Start New Thread" at the top of the previous page.
Rantz - Please don't take personal offense to what I said about the B&W 600 series. They are good speakers that many people swear by. They're just not my cup of tea. The ones I have most experience with are the 600 series towers. When I bought new speakers last year, I auditioned the 603 S3 tower, Paradigm Monitor 7, and PSB Image T55 in my house. All were floor models that have been broken in. I have also heard them countless times in hi-fi shops. To me the 603's were just missing something - not like a frequency response hole. I don't know what it was. They didn't seem to have a certain smoothness and liveness (is that a word?) that the PSB's and Paradigms had, hence my "dry and bland" assessment. I thought they didn't convey the energy of my music the way the other two did. Maybe it comes from what you described as a "slightly relaxed midrange." I'm sure their are far better ways to articulate what I'm trying to say, but I can't.
Our disagreement of what sounds good further proves what I said to Ian in my original post - " Listen to as many different combinations as you can. This is the only way you will truly get exactly what you like."
I tend to agree Stu. I think that B&W 600 series is a good speaker. The characteristic that bothered me most when comparing them to Paradigm Monitor speakers was the slightly bloated low end. The high end was very well behaved, but the mids lacked detail and the low end was overemphasized. It just didn't seem to be as well balanced as the Paradigm.
As I posted a couple of months ago the competition really heats up between Paradigm and B&W with the 700 series vs the Reference series. Each have their strong models. The 700 series bookshelf speaker outperforms the Studio 20 by just a bit and it really is a matter of taste. It costs nearly twice as much. Other models I feel that the Reference series has the edge. It's all just a matter of preference anyway.
Rantz
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Guys,
No offence taken whatsoever Stu, I was only making the point that the advice we offer others are, as you stated earlier (and I missed), only our opinions. As far as the 602's go, again I am in disagreement only this time with you Art: I cannot agree that they have a "bloated low end" or "overemphasised low end" as I hear only what I consider a good natural bass output - maybe placement plays an important role in this regard, but I have not experienced what you describe. Also I think Frank Abella said the same thing - wierd stuff :-)
When I stated "slightly relaxed midrange" I did so as many friends have speakers with very forward sounding mids that, IMO, become "too out there" for me after a short period of listening and I used that term to describe what I believe is a well defined if not relaxing midrange - see I find sound descriptions difficult also.
Guys, I don't get upset with those who don't like what I like, but I will disagree for the sake that we have different ears and that those reading should understand that point clearly. And I don't think the 602's are THE bee's knees of speakers, only that, for the price they are hard to beat - at least here in Oz. IMHO of course.
Rantz you meanie...lol! :-) Honestly guys I think we are talking about speakers all of which represent outstanding value. Yes we each may have a nit or two to pick about the ones we didn't choose (and being audio geeks probably about the ones we did choose) but overall each of these speakers are at the top of the budget heap.
Well guys, I have untrained ears and maybe am not listening for the right things, but the Rotel set up with the 704's was amazing. Granted, I only had a techincs set up with Bose speakers in the past but the difference was incredible. The whole set up is currently on the way to my house and I only hope that when I receive it in around a week, I can replicate the sound at home!!!
Great purchase Ian. That is a great combo that should last you a very long time. Don't worry about starting any arguements. They weren't really arguements. Just a couple of old friends, so to speak, civilly disagreeing with each other. The speakers we mentioned are all great speakers - even Rantz's POS 602's. We just like the ones we have for different reasons. If we didn't, we wouldn't have bought them.
Did I get your attention Rantz? Just trying to give a little bit back to you.
Yes I definately will Frank. I am being promised it in a few days time so I am currently arranging the furniture to suit, much to my wife's annoyance, but she'll get over it....
Well guys, yesterday I received my new equipment. It took me two hours to get it all cleared through customs and I headed home with it, with a smile on my face bigger then Charlie had when he found a golden ticket. Anyway, unpacked it all as carefully as I could, and set it all up only to find that I HAD NO SOUND!!!! After 4 hours of investigating, I believe that there is a problem with the power amp, even though it lights up as normal. I contacted the store (who are in a different country) who have said that they will try and get me sorted out sharpish with a temp amp for the mean time and then replace the other faulty unit. I will not name the store until I see how they handle my problem. Then I will either name and shame, or be full of praise.
Watch this space!!!!
PS the B&W 704 speakers have to be the most gorgeous looking speakers I have ever seen. Pity I can't comment on how they sound yet!!!!
Oh man, that's a shame! Very sorry to hear that Ian. I assume the store went through all the connection options with you. One thing to check - when you switch on the power amp, is there ANY noise at all? Even a very low hiss if you put your ear against the tweeter of one (gorgeous) 704? If so, it's not likely to be the power amp.
Congrats thats a very good system,sorry to here about the problems,you will feel like a million bucks once the problem is fixed thats a fabulous setup Rotel and B&W are distributed by the same company in the states.That sounds like the amp,but check out your sockets in your walls that could be the problem,the 704s are one of my favorite floorstanders under $3000 along with the Odyssey Loralies,Dynaudio Focus 220,Wharfedale Opus 1,and 2,and the Epos M15.2 and M22.
Well guys I am now up and running again after getting an identical demo replacement power amp for the mean time until the store get me a new one. Not ideal, but they have been fantastic in helping me out and deserve a lot of credit. Archimedia in Dubai, and in particular Ahmed, have all been great in helping me. The set up sounds absolutely fantastic, and I stick with the statement about the 704's, they really are gorgeous and have the sound to match it.
Excellent news. Now all you have to do is wait for everything to run in and become a bit more coherent. The B&Ws do need about a week's worth of constant playing before they start to loosen up.
