13 w7
|
New member Username: Shocka1641Southlake, Texas US Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-05 | I have one 13 inch w7 and im debating to get another. I dnt have it in my car yet, because this decision is holding me back. But if i just stay with one i can get a bad@zz box built. IF i get two it will look kinda crappy. Does anyone have any suggestions. |
|
Gold Member Username: InvainMichigan United States Post Number: 2007 Registered: Aug-04 | Well, why do you want another one exactly? By adding a second sub, with the same wattage running to it, you'll only notice about a 3 db increase, so it's not gonna be a ton louder. What do you meen by a bad@zz box? |
|
New member Username: Shocka1641Southlake, Texas US Post Number: 4 Registered: Apr-05 | Its gunna be fiberglass and bondo,painted to the color of my car. the front is going to be plex, im thinking about making the inside a black gloss with a sandblasted jl symbol. Ports are pointed towards the ceiling and the sub is upfiring at about a 45 degree angle. |
|
New member Username: Shocka1641Southlake, Texas US Post Number: 5 Registered: Apr-05 | 3 db would be twicw as loud, but i dnt think its worth all the hastle i think that i will just do one the right way. |
|
Gold Member Username: SubfanaticWalton, Ky Post Number: 2082 Registered: Dec-04 | no 3 db would not be twice as loud, technically, every 10 db's doubles the loudness |
|
Silver Member Username: PharohBradford, Ontario Canada Post Number: 116 Registered: Jan-05 | well said Sub. lol |
|
New member Username: MrosalePost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-05 | Andizzle i have a fiberglass box kinda like what your talking about (my paint had to be ordered from Nissan JAPAN!!!) people totaly dig the painted fiberglass enlocusres, and if I may suggest, put a couple little l.e.d.s inside the box for a little added presentation |
|
New member Username: Shocka1641Southlake, Texas US Post Number: 6 Registered: Apr-05 | (yea good call sub) it is 3 db. Anyhoo. I think i am going to go for just the one sub and the BA box. |
|
Gold Member Username: GlasswolfNorthWest, Michigan USA Post Number: 7602 Registered: Dec-03 | ok here ya go. use the 13W7 with a 1000/1 by itself. you'll get plenty of output even with one sub. I'd use a vented enclosure if you want an added +3 to +5dB over sealed at the expense of a slightly larger enclosure. adding a second 13W7 with no increase in power would give you +3dB. Adding a second W7 with a second equal amplifier, or using a non-JL amp and halving the load to the existing amplifier to double the power output adds another +3dB, and +6 to +10dB roughly translates to twice the perceived volume. (hearing is subjective so there's no set answer to quantifying "twice as loud.") that's why adding a second sub and amp usually feels about twice as loud for bass. I think the single W7 would be sufficient though unless you really have a desire to do heavy upgrades to the electrical system to support that added current draw of 200+A of current for two 1000/1 amps. |
|
Silver Member Username: TheelfkeeperStockbridge, GA USA Post Number: 296 Registered: Feb-05 | not to mention thats a pretty heavy sub, i had to change the springs in my accord to keep my car level after adding putting mine in, lol. i thought once you get in the 150's or 160's, every 3dB gain would be twice as loud. |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3688 Registered: May-04 | Nobody "listens" to 160s anyway  If you do, you won't for long. |
|
Gold Member Username: SubfanaticWalton, Ky Post Number: 2161 Registered: Dec-04 | I will! lol |
|
New member Username: Shocka1641Southlake, Texas US Post Number: 7 Registered: Apr-05 | do you think that i will be able to hit in the 155 range if its in the right box with just one 13w7 |
|
Silver Member Username: SouthernrebelMonroe, Louisiana USA Post Number: 602 Registered: Mar-04 | Andizzle, just wondering...but do you realize just how loud 155db is? ...lol... anyways...w/ 1 13w7 you could prolly top 150, but you would prolly have to build a box made exclusively for SPL comps. Also, alot would depend on the type pf car you have. Unless you are an SPL guru...155db is pretty much out of reach. Getting high SPL takes a alot of testing and tweeking. But as for daily bumpin...1 13w7 should be plenty loud. 140's are more than enough for daily bumpin, and w/ that 13w7 145db+ is well within reach. |
|
Silver Member Username: TheelfkeeperStockbridge, GA USA Post Number: 320 Registered: Feb-05 | i hit 141 on the term lab with my 13W7 powered by 2 500/1's in a ported box made for all types of music. was told my someone up there that i could get in the 150's easy if i changed the box (prob to a straight spl box i couldn't use for anything else) and that i could double my power. its plenty loud as it is. |
|
Gold Member Username: SubfanaticWalton, Ky Post Number: 2348 Registered: Dec-04 | i dont know, i dnotthink that a 13w7 could easily get in the 150's, isnt there a buy on here who did a crazy nuts box with his 13w7 and like 2 1000/1's and only hit 149 and thats all he didid wasnt his name like some alpinecompetitionteam or somen weird like that |
|
Silver Member Username: TheelfkeeperStockbridge, GA USA Post Number: 323 Registered: Feb-05 | idk sub, thats just what i was told. i'm fine with how it is now and don't feel the urge to change it, lol. just trying to get my mids and highs straight. but the box makes all the difference in the world with this |
|
Gold Member Username: SubfanaticWalton, Ky Post Number: 2365 Registered: Dec-04 | yea it does lol, and i wanst trying to be mean if i came off that way lol, lol, but what you mena bout your mids and highs? |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3717 Registered: May-04 | With the new termlab mic, it would be very hard to get to 150 with a W7. That's more of a job for SPL built subs like Digital Designs. It requires a strategic ported or bandpass box and a ton of power. |
|
Silver Member Username: TheelfkeeperStockbridge, GA USA Post Number: 327 Registered: Feb-05 | i know, and wasn't trying to sound on the defensive either. my sub drowns out my mids/highs, lol, looking to upgrade in a few months, thinking about getting some 3 way components. looking at CL-641's, HD-642's and diamons hex 4 inch component set with 6 inch midrange 3 way add on. never heard either brand, just heard good things. gonna power with JL 300/2, to keep all my amps matching. gonna put tweeter and 4 inch in kick panels and 6 inch in doors (92 honda accord, stock locations are really close to kicks) anyone know anything about these?? 3 way worth it?? |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3721 Registered: May-04 | 3 way works well with the woofer in door and mid and tweets in kicks. I'd personally choose the HD 642s, that's just me though. |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 720 Registered: Feb-05 | jonathan how do you think my image dynamic cxs62 chamoleons will match up with the avalanche 15 im running in my camry. |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3722 Registered: May-04 | Depends a lot on the box you're using for the sub and the crossover points. If you cross the sub over around 60hz and the components at 80-100hz, using an 18db or 24db/oct slope on the sub and a 12db/oct slope on the components, they should blend in pretty well, assuming levels are matched. |
|
Silver Member Username: Nnnnick_bNc Usa Post Number: 312 Registered: Jan-05 | A 3db increase requires twice the power but isnt twice as loud. Example. A 13w7 running at 1000 watts should be 3db's louder then the same set up running 500 watts. In order to double the percievable sound one would have to multiply the wattage by 10. Example. A 13w7 running at 1000 watts should be twice as loud as a 13w7 running at 100 watts. But the ratio of percievable loudness to wattage can be different for every vehicle and every setup. |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 721 Registered: Feb-05 | jonathan i will be using a 3.5 cu ft. box tuned to 27-30 Hz. Not exactly where i want it tuned yet. So a ported box. What should i tune it to if im using those ID componants.. |
|
Silver Member Username: Nnnnick_bNc Usa Post Number: 316 Registered: Jan-05 | 30 would be nice. |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3725 Registered: May-04 | That low tune is fine as is. Mainly I was referring to if you had either a higher tuned ported box or a small sealed box, where the upper frequency response would be a little "fatter" due to the effects of the port, or the fact that small sealed boxes also tend to emphasize boominess in upper frequencies and their resonant frequency is closer to that point. |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 722 Registered: Feb-05 | Whats the differance from 27 Hz to 30 Hz?? is it mainl a gain of spl and less sq??? |
|
Silver Member Username: Nnnnick_bNc Usa Post Number: 319 Registered: Jan-05 | you probally wont notice the difference of 27 to 30. They are only 3 partials in diference. 30 is a nice sql tune. An spl tune would be much higher, like 50 htz. |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 725 Registered: Feb-05 | Sweet....sounds good. Ill be using it as a everyday sql driver that gets loud. I listen to mostly rap and drum n bass jungle electronica type music with differant drums and hard hits and lows..so this looks like it will work out. |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3727 Registered: May-04 | I consider it like this: 25 and below: Not much for SPL just because of the fact that most music doesn't play that low, but will get louder at those freqs and have excellent SQ assuming you have the sub to do it (low resonant frequency). 25-30hz: SQ tune 30-35hz: SQL, good all around tuning 35-40hz: SQL, with more emphasis on a fatter sound and more SPL in that region. 40-50hz: SPL for many types of music, boomy sound, especially 45 and above. This is where ported boxes get negative stereotypes as many prefab crappy ported boxes are tuned in this region, and some bandpass boxes. 50 and above: SPL period, forget SQ. That is generalized and differs in subs used, sub size, suspension Q, etc. As far as 27-30hz, like nick said, no huge difference, you'd mainly notice if you definately knew what frequencies you were playing, but the overall sound quality isn't changed by a drastic amount. |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 727 Registered: Feb-05 | What whould you personally tune it to jonathan? |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3728 Registered: May-04 | Oh, and I've had questions in the past about why low tuned ported boxes do so well for SQ and why I recommend them for SQ with added SPL. I'm doing this for anyone that may be wondering. Most subs have a fairly parabolic BL curve, meaning that at higher excursions you lose motor strength, thus losing cone control and increasing distortion. When you have a sub at a higher frequency, such as in the 40s or 50s, it wouldn't be moving too far anyway, so when you port it, you are emphasizing a frequency range that is pretty easy to reproduce (from an excursion standpoint) and since excursion is lower, you have more motor strength. Think of frequency like this, you have two horses that are capable of moving the same amount of weight. Assume you hook the 1st horse to 2000lbs of weight, and it moves that 2000lbs one foot in a minute, and you hook 1000lbs to the 2nd horse, and it moves that 1000lbs one foot in 30 seconds, both horses would be moving 2000 lbs one foot in a minute. The 1st horse is struggling harder, but the same amount of work is being done because the 2nd horse is moving it at a higher rate. This is similar to how frequency works when referring to subwoofers (it's how horsepower works, too) When you tune high, the subwoofer wasn't really straining to begin with, so you didn't decrease distortion by an appreciable amount, all you did was amplify output and have a high cutoff for the system, which decreases it's bandwidth capabilities. SPL of the sub at these frequencies will be higher due to the cabin gain of the vehicle and also the fact that less excursion is necessary to produce higher frequencies. At low frequencies (30hz), distortion is quite high due to the excursions required and the loss of motor strength, thus linearity, at those excursions. In a sealed box, you can throw a driver past linear excursion at super low frequencies with enough power. However, if you add a port at that frequency, you are reducing cone motion since the port is active, so for the same amount of SPL, the subwoofer excursion is drastically reduced (in many or most cases, less than 1/4 the excursion that would be required in a sealed box), which reduces the distortion of the driver by a huge amount and also keeps the sub linear for longer. Now, since the port also decreases excursion above the tuning frequency to a certain point, it also reduces distortion at frequencies above that. So now you have a box that provides a lower distortion through the frequency range than a sealed box, and a subwoofer that is linear and isn't strained, plus you have more output at a low frequency range, which rattles bones and impresses friends . Once the port reaches a point where it is no longer functional, the box will perform as a sealed box (excursion-wise), and by that point the frequency is high enough that you still don't have a huge amount of excursion, so the sub still remains linear and has low distortion. On top of that, a low tuned ported box covers a wider frequency range than a high tuned one, making musicality better since most music doesn't drop below 30hz often. If you tune in the 25-30hz region and set your subsonic filter to around 20hz, you've effectively covered the full frequency range and didn't strain the driver in the process. |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3729 Registered: May-04 | I'd tune it around 28hz most likely, good frequency range for a 15". |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 729 Registered: Feb-05 | How does 24Hz and the subsonic fliter set to 15Hz sound??? for the avalanche 15 jonathan. I have somone building it for me and thats what he suggested. Either way i can go |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 730 Registered: Feb-05 | or 28hz and the SSF set to 20Hz??? whats the differance hear ? is it audible? |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 731 Registered: Feb-05 | Im gonna stay with 28Hz with the subsonic filter around 20Hz |
|
Bronze Member Username: Team_audio_itchTampa, FL Post Number: 18 Registered: Feb-05 | i do a 150.4 on the term lab. my 13w7 and 1000/1 are in my explorer so if u put the same setup in a car with a trunk ud prob. go down around 3dBs. id see it pretty difficult to do louder than that with 1 13w7 while still being able to drive around and listen to any music and without making some rediculous box. mine is the normal recomended 2.35 cuft ported box. there was a navigator at a show i went to and he had 4 12w7s ported and did a 152 when i did a 151 that day due to the fact that he did not have JL amps or even the right amount of power. |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 733 Registered: Feb-05 | How many db can you hit with the avalanche 15 ported like in my case even though its a daily driver. |
|
Gold Member Username: Jonathan_fGA USA Post Number: 3731 Registered: May-04 | 24hz would work too, check the resonant frequency of the driver, you don't want to tune too close to it, and definately not below it. Either or would work, 28hz will be fine for SQ/SPL, though. |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 738 Registered: Feb-05 | Yeah im gonna actually do 3.0 cubic feet at 27Hz with the ssf at 20Hz. |
|
Silver Member Username: Suleman36Post Number: 739 Registered: Feb-05 | fs is 15.7hz on the avalanche jonathan |
|
New member Username: Shocka1641Southlake, Texas US Post Number: 8 Registered: Apr-05 | Yes masrshall i understand how loud 155db is considering my single ten inch mtx 8500 hit 154.6 in the last comp i went to. So i would hope a w7 would be louder. Dumb@zz. |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics