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Unregistered guest | Hi again, I'm now considering buying used or refurbished. Which would you recommend? Pioneer Elite SVX-24TX 2076_4155_36854%2C00.html,http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0 ,,2076_4155_36854,00.html Yamaha RX-V1000 http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/Specs/?gAVR00010RX-V1000 Yamaha RX-V995 http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/Specs/?gAVR00010RX-V995 I'm not even certain which of the Yamaha is best or more recent! (I prefer the look of the 995 and its remote from the pictures) I can get any of these for C$500-C$600. They all have pre-amp outputs on all channels (important to me) and are all 5.1 DD/DTS. Thanks! Peter |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 188 Registered: 12-2003 | I would not buy any of these for the money you mentioned. You can buy a new Elite vsx53 for under $700 and it's much better than the 24 and you can get the Yamaha 2400 for about the same. I would look at recievers like the Marantz 5400 and 6400 and the NAD 743. All better than what you mentioned. $500-$600 is way to much for these older models. |
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New member Username: Shawn_fPost Number: 2 Registered: 02-2004 | Elitefan, Don't forget he is shopping in Canadian... Just thought I would point that out. As for my opinion, and before I make a recommendation, what kind of speakers are you driving? Also what is it that you are looking for, beyond it having a preamp stage? |
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Unregistered guest | Hi, I appreciate your advice, but I think you might be comparing apples and oranges (or at least Canadian vs US dollars). I'd be happy to pay CND$700 for a VSX-53, but for one thing it still sells new so it's hard to find used, and it sells for US$750 (or CDN$865). A better comparison would be a used Pionner Elite VSX-24TX (CDN$540 or so) versus a new VSX-D812K or Marantz SR-4300 (CDN$500 + taxes). I could either either for similar prices. I think it's likely that a 3 year-old receiver that was higher quality is probably better in the long term that something new at the same price now (as long as I have the features I want). I've sure the effects chips have gotten better, but a quality amplifier must be of similar build than 3 years ago. No? I'm interested in hearing people's opinion about this. |
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Unregistered guest | Hi Shawn, I plan to drive the main front speakers through pre-amp outputs with a 20-year old Nikko Alpha 220 power amplifier (120W per channel), driving Klipsck LaScala speakers. I plan to initially use the center pre-out to drive the TV speakers (and eventually buy a center speaker). The TV is a Samsung 52" with okay sound (much better than my 32" TV for example). I have only 2 rear surrounds so far, fairly large Nuance speakers (Canadian brand from 10 years ago that are no longer made). |
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Unregistered guest | For comparison to used gear, here's what I can get in Canada for the upper end of what I want to pay (These are out of province, so add 7% tax and shipping). These are all 6.1: Marantz SR4300 CDN$499 Yamaha RX-V640 CDN$599 Pioneer VSX-D912 CDN$599 If anyone know of a good online retailer in Canada, please let me know. Would you recommend any of these new units relative to the used 5.1 DD/DTS units: Pioneer Elite SVX-24TX Yamaha RX-V1000 Yamaha RX-V995 Thanks! Peter |
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New member Username: Shawn_fPost Number: 4 Registered: 02-2004 | Peter, of those I like the Marantz the most. And with the Klipsch, it should sound pretty good. In fact I have heard a Klipsch/Marantz set-up and was impressed. I usually hate horn tweeters, but the Marantz worked well with it. The tweeter and the mellow sound of the Marantz meld well together. I am not a huge fan of Elite, but that is more a personal preference issue. I would try for the Marantz, though stepping up a bit to a 5300 would be worth it. Good luck with it. Let me know how it goes. Shawn |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks Shawn, The Marantz SR-5300 is CDN$649 (+ 7% tax and shipping), so that'll be around CDN$730 total. It's really more than I wanted to spend. Why are you recommending the upgrade? So this new gear will sounds better and last longer than the old gear mentionned above? Thanks!!! |
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New member Username: Shawn_fPost Number: 5 Registered: 02-2004 | I would go for the 5300 because it has a better DAC in it. If you are not using the digital to analog conversion that is in your DVD player (most of us don't except for SACD's), you should go for the better on board Dac in the receiver. It is an upgrade from 96/24 to 192/24. It is worth the extra money. I use the DAC in my receiver for my 300 disc changer instead of using the internal DAC. The changer sounds 1000 times better that way, though I still won't use it for my reference player. I would forget the Yamaha's. After listening to a Klipsch/Yamaha setup for three hours you will most likely want to gouge your ears out with a knitting needle. They don't sound good together. And as I said before I am not a huge fan of Pioneer. You will find their defenders on this board. I am not one of them. Don't get me wrong, the Pioneer is a good receiver as well, it just doesn't work for me. Marantz and Elite are both mellow sounding which will work great with Klipsch. So my advice is to go with Marantz, but realize that I personally don't like Pioneer Elite. Many others do. I hope this helps. |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks Shawn, I assume that I'd be bypassing the DVD's DAC by using either a coax or optical digital link, right? In that respect, the more recent Marantz 5300 might indeed sound better than a 3 to 4 year-old receiver (that used to cost US$1000). I just have to convince myself (and my wife) to spend the extra money on the 5300. :-) Do anyone want to argue in favour of older equipment? In favour of the Pionner Elite VSX-24TX? Thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 191 Registered: 12-2003 | Peter, Sorry I didn't catch that you live in Canada. I guess it was to early for me to pay that much attention. Of what you mentioned at first I would go with the Elite. Yamaha with Klipsch is a non-starter. Of the new models the Marantz is the best match. |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks therealelitefan, Between the old Elite and a new Marantz at the same price, which would you get? :-) Also, I noticed that the newer Marantz SR-4400 has the 192/24 DAC now, and a quick web search found it at US$325.00 at www.downtownaudio.com. This works out to CDN$433, so it's even cheaper than the price I can get in Canada for the SR-4300. Strangely enough, their price on the SR-4300 is higher (and higher than what I can get in Canada). What's the deal? Is the older SR-4300 better than the new SR-4400? If I did order a Marantz from the US, is there an online store you'd recommend? Thanks _again_! Peter |
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New member Username: Shawn_fPost Number: 7 Registered: 02-2004 | I would buy the Marantz, but mostly because I am biased. And, well, I like having a warranty with the electronic A/V equipment I buy. |
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Unregistered guest | I plan on buying the Marantz SR-4400 for US$325 and have it shipped to Canada. I don't think that the official Marantz warranty holds when purchased from such a likely unauthorised dealer (past the 30-day store warranty) but it wouldn't be valid in canada anyway. I get a 30-day store warranty, which is more than what I'd get on ebay anyway. The auction for the Yamaha RX-V1000 I was looking at finished at US$351. I was willing to spend a bit more than that, so I would have won the auction had I not posted here today. So thanks! I'm getting a new receiver for a better price. :-) |
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New member Username: Shawn_fPost Number: 9 Registered: 02-2004 | Glad to help. Let me know how it sounds when you get it all set up. |
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Unregistered guest | The saga is not over yet... I haven't ordered the Marantz SR4400 yet, but found a disappointing review here: http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=3693 It ranked 5th of 5 units. :-( "The Marantz is not the most transparant amp around, however, and the mid treble region tends to glare, an effect exaggerated during volume peaks." That doesn't sound too good for Klipsch speakers. Also, they state that the DAC is 96kHz. The Marantz web page said 192kHz, but I downloaded the PDF brochure and it also says 92kHz and not 192. Lastly, they said that the subwoofer filter frequency was set to 100 Hz. I don't have a subwoofer yet, but if I ever get one I'd want to direct only much lower frequncies than that to the sub (or waste the bass from my Klipsch LaScala). So... Do I buy this anyway? It's still much cheaper than other units with pre-outs (except in the Pioneer line, e.g. D812 or D912). |
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Unregistered guest | Also, they state that the DAC is 96kHz. The Marantz web page said 192kHz, but I downloaded the PDF brochure and it also says 92kHz and not 192. Unfortunately, there's no contact email address to ask them which is correct... subwoofer filter frequency was set to 100 Hz. I don't have a subwoofer yet, but if I ever get one I'd want to direct only much lower frequncies than that to the sub (or waste the bass from my Klipsch LaScala). Actually, the SR-4400 allows you to send low frequency content to both the sub and main speakers so I wouldn't be depriving my mains of the bass content after all (just sending too much to the sub). The SR-4400 still seems a good value, so I guess I'll buy it anyway. |
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Bronze Member Username: Shawn_fPost Number: 11 Registered: 02-2004 | I would hold out for the 5300 then. The DAC is worth the extra money. ANd I really think that not having a variable crossover will drive you insane when you get a good sub to go with your Klipsch. 80Hz is where I run my receiver now, with a Hsu Sub and Paradigm Studio 60's... 100 Hz wouldn't make me happy. No matter how good the Hsu is. But that may not be where you want to go... You could like 100. I think Yamaha's lower end receviers set it there. Just my two cents... |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks Shawn, The DAC issue is unclear. Their web site says 192kHz three times. The PDF brochure has 96kHz on a logo and in the spec list, but the text says 192kHz. I wish I had a straight answer. Since I don't own a sub, I'm unclear why 100Hz is really bad. I guess I'd set the gain on the sub to hear frequencies around 100Hz more from the main speakers than I would from the sub. Wouldn't that work? The problem is that I the only 5300 I found is CDN$649 (still a good price) new and within Canada. I haven't found any online US source for the 5300 but could get the 4300 for US$325 (or CDN$433). That's a 50% increase in price (CDN$231 extra after tax) for an unclear advantage. I wish I had the straight story on the DAC. |
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Unregistered guest | The problem is that I the only 5300 I found is CDN$649 (still a good price) new and within Canada. I haven't found any online US source for the 5300 but could get the 4300 for US$325 (or CDN$433). That's a 50% increase in price (CDN$231 extra after tax) for an unclear advantage. Opps. I meant the SR4400 for CDN$433. |
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Unregistered guest | Hey Shawn (and others), Going full circle here... What if the Marantz SR4400 has 96kHz DACs (which is unclear), and considering the subwoofer cut-off frequency is fixed at 100 Hz, and the review that said that the mid treble region tends to glare, how would you compare it to the older Pioneer Elite VSX-24TX which has Burr Brown 96kHz/24-bit DACs and selectable subwoofer frequency (80, 100 and 150)? I'm told Pioneers also have a mellow sound that would match my Klipsch. Should I reconsider this older unit? I tried to include a web link to the VSX-24TX web page for its details, but the message board software fails to render it correctly. It's at http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_36854_tab=B,00. html but you'll have to cut/paste it. Thanks! |
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Bronze Member Username: Shawn_fPost Number: 13 Registered: 02-2004 | If you can't get the 5300, go that way. It isn't a bad receiver, not my favorite, but who am I really? Elitefan will be happy I am sure. And yes, the Pioneer should match well. If no on the Marantz, go for the Elite. Shawn |
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Unregistered guest | So the Elite is preferred over the Marantz SR4400? I think the Marantz SR5300 is beyond my budget on this. Wow, now I have to think about this some more. I wasn't expecting that. :-) Man these decisions are hard! My brother says to flip a coin... I seem to be changing my mind every day or so anyway. |
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Unregistered guest | Considering that the Marantz SR4400 would be about the same price as the older Pioneer Elite VSX-24TX, here is my breakdown: Marantz SR-4400: + current model + new (but only 1 month warranty since from US) + 6.1 DTS-ES, DTS-NEO 6 = 80Wx6, 20Hz20kHz, 0.08%THD = 96kHz/24bit DAC (very likely) = non-learning remote but has codes for Bell ExpressVu = pre-amp outputs on all channels. - 27.6 lbs - subwoofer freq set to 100Hz - One bad review in the audio press Pioneer Elite SVX-24TX: - model discontinued fall 2000. - used (ebay) - 5.1 DTS = 90Wx5, 20Hz-20KHz 0.09%THD. = 96kHz/24bit DACs = Remote with limited codes (no Bell ExpressVu) but has learning capability. = pre-amp outputs on all channels + 31 lbs + subwoofer freq settable (80, 100, 150 Hz) + seems to have gotten good reviews in the past What I don't know: How they sound! :-) Honestly, I don't know which I should get. I'd get that `new car' feeling with the Marantz because it's new and not used, but that wears off in 30 minutes if the Pioneer sounds good. |
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Unregistered guest | A few more entries (more expensive, but let's see what it says): Marantz SR-5300 - last year's model + new, would be purchased in Canada with full warranty + 6.1 DTS-ES, DTS-NEO 6 + 196kHz/24bit DACs all channels = 20Hz-20KHz THD=0.05% 90Wx6 @8ohms + S/N 105 dB = 28.38 lbs, 432W = Non-learning remote has codes for Bell Expressvu - Subwoofer LPF set to 100Hz. No "Bass Mix" as on SR5400. I assume that when mains are set to large and subwoofer is set to Yes, then both get low frequencies. But then, what does "Bass Mix" mean? Marantz SR-5400 + current model - Would be purchased online from US, so no warranty? + 6.1 DTS-ES, DTS-NEO 6 + 196kHz/24bit DACs x 7, 32bit DSP = 20Hz-20KHz THD=0.08% 90Wx6 @8ohms, 110Wx6 @ 6ohms + S/N ratio 105 dB = 27.6 lbs, 400W = Non-learning remote has codes for Bell Expressvu - Variable LPF (80, 100, 150). Bass mix available to send low frequencies to large speakers. (What does "Bass Mix" do? From the description, it sounds like it routes all low freqs to L+R main (therefore switching off the sub?) Shawn, it looks like LPF frequency only applies if you have small front speakers, which is not my case. I'd be sending the full frequency range to the front L+R anyway. So the SR5300 is very similar to the SR4400 apart for 192kHz vs 96kHz DACs. I have to decide whether to spend CDN$230 to get either the 5300 from Canada (with full warranty) or the 5400 online from the US (no warranty) versus the cheaper SR-4400 (online and no warranty) or Pioneer Elite (ebay, no warranty). The lack of warranty doesn't scare me very much for CDN$500 or so spent. |
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Ed Ng Unregistered guest | Hi Shawn, you seem to be quite an expert on Marantz receivers. I too have a bit of a dilema..........I have been looking a Marantz sr7300 new for about $815 cdn. Is this a good price? Thanks Ed from Vancouver BC Canada |
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Silver Member Username: GmanPost Number: 202 Registered: 12-2003 | The Pioneer Elite is antiquated for certain surrounds and you pay for the Elite name. At this price level the Pioneer 912 is rated highly by CNET---maybe #1. The only thing it is missing is OSD (on screen display for set-up---not a big deal at this price and compared to what they do include). Plus Klipsch is incredibly easy to drive. Your ears would probably bleed playing them at more than 25 watts. |
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Bronze Member Username: Shawn_fPost Number: 14 Registered: 02-2004 | Peter, I use the crossover, even with my studio's. I know that that may be taking a little away from the speakers bottom end, but I don't mind. A good sub will do fine for me. I would rather have the midrange performance out of the paradigms. It is just how I use it. People can argue both ways on whether you should let the towers handle bass as well, but I just like the subwoofer to do it and let the midrange and highs come from my towers. As for the decision, I am not sure I can offer more than I already have. I want a variable crossover and I want a warranty, so that is just my take. The lack of a warranty just kind of gets to me when it comes to electronics. Speakers I am less apt to worry. I can always replace a woofer or tweeter myself. Changing something in a solid state amp is not my cup of tea. Ed, I wouldn't call myself an expert on Marantz, I just know that I looked at a lot of them when I was looking to upgrade receivers. And as for the price, I am not in Canada, so I have to bag off there as well. What are you driving speaker wise? I really enjoy the musical performance of Marantz for the most part. So maybe after you let me in on that, I can do more for you. |
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Bronze Member Username: PetergalbraithPost Number: 13 Registered: 02-2004 | Thanks Gregory, I am leaning towards h/k right now, if only I can get over the shipping to Canada sticker price. Shawn, thanks for all the help! |
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Ed Ng Unregistered guest | Hi Shawn, I have a set of full energy connosseurs: C7 fronts C1 bookshelf rears CC1 centre channel S10.2 sub woofer I also made sure that the set up will consist of full Monster cables. Ed |